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Sharkie posted:"People are assholes" isn't very explanative. Why is it worse now than during 9/11? What have we been doing as a culture that led to this, and what can we do to combat it? since the 2009 recession the job market hasn't really recovered for dumb rural white people, so
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Nov 22, 2015 05:57
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Helsing posted:It's not very clear to me how people posting in this thread right now propose to bring that society about. We've got posters -- some, based on their rap sheets, with a long track record of racist trolling -- attacking multiculturalism and claiming some cultures are just terrible and backwards. Well, what's the alternative policy for integrating people and getting them to live together? Other than trying to sound tough by telling what you obviously think are the hard cold truths about those backwards minorities, what, substantively speaking, is the alternative approach to actually creating a more level, welcoming and secular society? humans just need to behave rationally, duh *plays with model trains* (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 26, 2015 22:00
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Tei posted:Humm... the thing about islam being worse than other religions is not even important. Theres rational reasons to hate islam even if other religions where worse. there are no rational reasons to hate anyone or anything, because hate is an emotion. don't dress up irrational behavior as rationality, that's illogical
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Nov 28, 2015 19:12
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Average Bear posted:To clarify, I didn't know religious arbitration was common in America. The issue of sharia being used as well was brought up, so that's why it catches flak. it catches flak because your average american is ignorant and irrationally scared of muslims. jewish and christian religious arbitration happens every day in this country and nobody cares, because those are white people religions Average Bear posted:But sharia law also has laws and punishments completely obsoleted by modern secular law. Like, all of them. do you think sharia is like written down somewhere on a stone tablet and it says "in situation x you must do y"
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Nov 29, 2015 02:42
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Average Bear posted:I think religious arbitration is bad because I'm pretty far left. those things are also in the bible yet you don't seem to think that christian arbitration involves selling daughters there might be some uh gaps in your factual understanding of the topic that produces some let's say less than well considered opinions
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Nov 29, 2015 07:02
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Rakosi posted:Is this thread about not liking a religion or not liking brown people, because one of those two things is completely fair. there's nothing fair about not liking people based on the color of their skin
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Nov 30, 2015 08:37
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Sharzak posted:http://survation.com/new-polling-of-british-muslims/ "i have sympathy for young british muslims who leave the UK to join syrian fighters" is not nearly the same question as "i have sympathy for ISIS fighters". please be honest
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Dec 1, 2015 09:43
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Cat Mattress posted:It's kind of like if "Islamophobia" was a dumb word because it's not actually about Islam at all! i'm not sure you get what the "islam" in "islamophobia" means e: ignorant white people being bad at identifying muslims and also being generally scared of arabic dress and brown skin doesn't invalidate fear of islam as well, they often all occur together under general 'xenophobia' boner confessor fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 00:53
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Cat Mattress posted:If Islam doesn't mean Islam, then maybe you should take the word that it actually means, and build your -ophobia from that actual word? Food for thought. the islam in islamobphobia does mean islam though. you contended that americans are not actually scared of muslims, but of ethnic people. you failed to consider that americans are simultaneously afraid of both muslims and ethnic people
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Dec 2, 2015 01:05
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dawkins himself isn't above criticism. self identifying as a rational thinker doesn't necessarily make it so. he's got a track record of idiotic comments on sexism, islam, doesn't mind mild pedophilia, and thinks that multiculturalism is code for islamic invasion of europe. he also gets to geet crazy defensive when he says something inflammatory or wrong about islam and then preemptively pulls the racist card against his opponents, which is an excellent indicator that he's full of poo poo. he's pretty clearly just a scared old upper crust white dude who isn't worth less scrutiny just because he's some kind of skeptic pope
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Dec 2, 2015 01:40
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Cat Mattress posted:I'm not talking specifically about Americans, but sure, let's use them as an example. If Americans are scared of Muslims, they're scared of Muslims. Islam is a different thing. Muslims are people, Islam is a religious ideology. Pretty different things, and they have pretty different words to designate them, even! Maybe Americans are scared of Muslims, ethnic groups other than WASP, and Islam. Obviously when you have these three fears together, the one that is the worst, the most unforgivable is the fear of Islam! there are two really dumb things i want to point out here but don't want to argue because i dont see the point in arguing with you specifically -you seem to think that fear of people who practice islam and fear of islam as a theological construct are distinct enough concepts to require precise language, which is pedantically correct-but-incorrect like 'guns dont kill people' -you seem to think that it's some kind of politically correct sin to criticize islam, which makes me think that you're specifically triggered about being called an islamophobe in the past. not trying to be antagonistic here but from your word choice it seems obvious that you're not actually interested in much outside of justifying your opinions to others which is tedious boner confessor fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 02:18
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Cat Mattress posted:1. I tend not to view Muslims as being necessarily "people who practice Islam". this is a mistake because, by definition, a muslim is someone who practices islam Cat Mattress posted:2. I have never seen a good reason to use "Islamophobia" instead of "racism", except perhaps when playing Scrabbles. islamophobia means fear of muslims. racism is a belief system based on the fundamental inequity between races, however those are defined
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Dec 2, 2015 02:44
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Cat Mattress posted:And? That's pretty much my point. If they are also afraid of someone who is culturally Muslim (but who is actually atheist, or even why not a convert to Christianity) then it's obvious the real issue isn't a supposed fear of Islam, but plain old racism. they are also afraid of muslims it is possible for someone to be afraid of one, two, heck, even three things at a time different forms of bigotry don't cancel each other out bro
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Dec 2, 2015 03:29
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blowfish posted:lol, people keep dragging this up again and again, and fail to make the distinction between "not as bad as" and "good" in their white and black worldviews most rational thinkers i know of dont find themselves splitting hairs over the relative degrees of sexual assault on children on twitter PT6A posted:The fact that Dawkins has said some stupid things does not invalidate the totality of all things he's said. it also means he shouldn't be cited as some kind of overwhelming authority given that he has a track record of saying intensely stupid poo poo it turns out he's just a flawed illogical human like the rest of us, and as such can be wrong about many things, such as his irrational fear of the muslim cultural invasion of britain this means you can't just accept his arguments as "oh he's a smart philosopher man he must have considered the angles" when he says things like he's visually repulsed when he sees muslim women wearing garbage bags. he's just a bigot and his irrational arguments should be dismissed on those grounds alone boner confessor fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 18:08
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Tei posted:Theres a culture build around ideas like "snitches get stitches", "bros before hoes" and a anti intelectual agenda (these that pay interest to studies, are targeted for abuse). 
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Dec 3, 2015 17:11
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Tei posted:Well, that would be a problem for step #2. But step #1 was to agree or disagree that a culture can be "Bad". if cultures can be bad, whichever culture spawned you is the worst there is no objective basis on which you can define a culture or if it's good or bad, so it's useless except to articulate what you dislike. and i dislike your posting
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Dec 3, 2015 18:50
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Helsing posted:While this is hard to argue with at some abstract theoretical level I think most people are comfortable evaluating cultural norms on a couple basic questions like how well these norms support individual autonomy, bodily security, a sense of mental well being, etc. Speaking personally I'm not ready to go all the way down the culturally relativist rabbit hole because the logical endpoint of that perspective seems to be that we can never form any evaluations of anyone ever, since each person is irreducibly their own individual with their own perspective on the world. my point is more how many of those norms do you have to hit before it's bad or good i come from a perfectly neutral culture, as good as it is bad, morally buoyant people only say a culture is bad when they want to pseudointellectualize their bigotry in abstract and impersonal terms as a way of distancing themselves from the ugliness of their own opinions. it's just cowardice really
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Dec 3, 2015 21:34
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An Enormous Boner posted:I'm accusing the organization that planned and executed the attacks in France of wanting to commit violence against people, yes. I'm also saying it's largely because of their extreme religious beliefs, which they have explicitly and repeatedly explained. it's wrong to plan and execute attacks against civilians. this is why we must bomb isis, from the air, like civilized people boner confessor fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 02:31
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Frosted Flake posted:No. I believe that some elements of Islam are at war with the West though. so are some elements of the west. thankfully these elements are most likely to have 'hunting accidents'
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Dec 7, 2015 03:02
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Mulva posted:My brother brought up a really good point last night when we were discussing this vis-à-vis Trumps poll bump from his Monday statements. He thinks a lot of this is Islamophobia is driven by the fact that Muslims are easily set apart from society by their dress and actions, and this makes it impossible for many Americans to assume that everyone they meet is just another version of them. that's not a good point, as it relies on stereotyping and racial discrimination. this is like saying that antisemitism is driven by broad brimmed hats and big noses. sorry that your brother is stupid
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Dec 10, 2015 23:26
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Average Bear posted:Criticizing Islam as a religion doesn't entail "suspecting" everyone who practices it. Please understand this, thread. Please well it would be nice if people would put forth some criticisms of islam rather than just generally ill founded bigotry "what, i can't criticise islam" is a synonym for "i'm not racist, but"
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Dec 11, 2015 01:26
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Average Bear posted:No it loving isn't. it's ok, there there. i know it hurts, realizing that there are no criticisms of islam that aren't just criticisms of various muslims you don't like for one reason or another. you'll get through this (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 11, 2015 01:33
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Average Bear posted:Capn Payne posted a manifesto from ISIS to support his point that Islam has actual doctrine that can be used to radicalize people and people just hand waved that as bigotry. An actual Shi'ite posted his input on conservative Islam and no one responded because they couldn't just call him racist. Nobody can actually debate and learn anything here because dissenting opinions, rather than rebuked, are just dismissed with lower case posting. ah yes ISIS, pope of islam, demonstrates that islam is fundamentally bad i'm glad though that you took the brave step of voicing your disagreement with murder, torture, executions, sex slavery, etc. it was very brave of you to stand up and say, I am against the villans called ISIS PT6A posted:Of course, if you're looking for a criticism which applies to all Muslims, you will be unlikely to find one because every person practices their religion differently and comes from a different cultural background. yes, yes, keep going... and then what? don't stop now. what comes after you realize everyone practices islam differently and that religions are open to interpretation? boner confessor fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 01:36
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PT6A posted:So, because religions are open to interpretation and everyone follows slightly different practices, there can be no criticism of concepts which are reasonably widespread in the Islamic community and have some degree of support from either the Quran or hadith? so what widespread concepts do you find troubling
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Dec 11, 2015 01:54
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PT6A posted:Gender inequality and segregation, anti-LGBT attitudes, and rather dim views toward religious pluralism all spring to mind. These are not exclusive to Islam nor are they shared by all Muslims but there's enough of a correlation that I feel some criticism is fair. Again, this is not a reason to assume all Muslims share these beliefs, but they are supported in the Quran and/or Hadith so I don't think it's fair to say they have nothing to do with Islam. so your criticisms of islam are things that aren't specific to or mandated by islam
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Dec 11, 2015 02:05
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Average Bear posted:Live under oppressive cultural standards enforced by the religious elite. you do realize that most muslims don't live in saudi arabia or territory controlled by ISIS, right? because i'm not sure that you know this fact
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Dec 11, 2015 02:06
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gay marriage is extremely controversial across the islamic world, unlike in the united states or russia
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Dec 11, 2015 02:18
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An Enormous Boner posted:Do you exist in reality? Same-sex marriage is legal in the United States and supported by a large majority of the population. You can still be put to death for homosexual activity in 7 Muslim-majority countries, and it's illegal in most of them. if you'll check your CIA fact book, nations like jamaica, russia, india, ukraine, and ethopia are not majority muslim. try again, slugger
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Dec 11, 2015 02:30
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