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I may have just read a few bad posts but there seems like there's a lot of bullshit being thrown around by people who have never tried to lose a significant amount of weight. I lost 100 lbs. through diet and exercise at one point in my life, a few years ago. I gained it all back and I'm working on doing it again. I know exactly what to do, what to eat, what exercise routine to do, and so on. It took me years just to muster up the willpower to do it again. It's especially difficult to lose a significant amount of weight and still maintain any kind of social life and it's even more difficult if you have an SO that doesn't have to or want to maintain the same habits. Once you are beyond a certain weight or BMI, it's very tough to maintain the willpower to lose enough weight to be healthy again while you are surrounded with a world of things to eat and people - almost all people - whose idea of hanging out is going out to eat and/or drinking booze. It isn't ignorance of some magical formula that's keeping people from losing weight. It's that our entire culture in the USA is built around eating and having an endless supply of new and delicious things to eat. I have a few friends who I try to keep motivated who have sat down with multiple doctors multiple times and been told exactly what to do and it worked OK for a time but the missing piece for almost everyone is willpower. It's incredibly tough and the rewards for getting fit and staying fit are a long, long way off for a lot of people trying to do so and the deck is stacked against you given that the reward of eating is immediate and infinite. Also, add a stressful full-time job, and maybe an hour commute, on top of everything else and you have an immensely tough battle. It's very difficult and not impossible but I will never blame anyone, at all, for not wanting to do it. Huzanko fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 20:50
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 00:03 |
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JFairfax posted:how quickly did you put the 100lbs back on? It was over the course of a couple years. There are reasons why it happened - stress, an hour commute, moving in with the SO, moving with the SO to a new city, SO losing her job, having to consult part time and work full time, and so on. In hindsight I don't feel like they're good reasons but it's less easy to maintain good habits if everything else is changing. However, the battle was lost, early on, when I stopped weighing myself and figured I could just eat in moderation and that it would be all good. I got kind of fanatical about staying fit and I turned into kind of an rear end in a top hat. So, I thought that I'd just be "normal" for a while to get along with everyone around me. I am not blaming them but that was my thinking at the time. Honestly, I feel that if you're fat and you get fit, you're going to be staving off the fat forever. The very hardest part comes when you've lost all the weight and you realize that you need to eat a particular way forever and ever. At this point I figure there is a good reason why people typically get old AND fat - to do otherwise requires immense dedication. I also think this is one of the reasons why running is so popular - you just eat mostly whatever and run a million miles and don't necessarily have to care as much about what you eat. All the runners I personally know - not saying they are all like this - have immensely addictive personalities and drink like fishes and eat like poo poo and then just run and it's all good.
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Jan 20, 2016 20:59
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Asiina posted:I agree with all of that, and have been in similar situations. Yeah. It's a never ending, immensely tough up-hill battle once you are unhealthy and/or obese as a kid and teenager.
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Jan 20, 2016 21:19
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Sub Par posted:Yeah this definitely describes me. I spend 6+ hours a week running, and I eat well at home, but when I eat badly, I eat badly and that's usually in front of other people. For most semi-serious runners, the weekend means at least one long run where you're easily burning 1k calories in a single go. So when you're out with your running bros on Saturday night and they put back a pizza and 9 beers, part of that is the exercise but part of that is the 6 nights you didn't see where they had quinoa, black beans, broccoli, and a glass of wine for dinner. This is kind of what I was talking about in my original post. Our entire culture - from supermarkets to restaurants to fast food - is built around eating and typically eating the richest foods in the biggest portions.
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Jan 20, 2016 22:03
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:Though someone else was, I wasn't saying anything as extreme as "you can't gain weight on mostly chicken," because people do that (but usually deliberately). I'm saying that the dude who eats mostly chicken is far less likely to gain weight than the dude who eats mostly fast food and sweets, because you need to eat a comparatively massive volume and weight of food to get the same calories off of chicken. Most people get a "stop eating" signal when they've worked through a pound of lean meat, whereas most people don't get a "stop eating" signal when they've worked through a Big Gulp of soda.
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Jan 21, 2016 04:55
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fishmech posted:Macronutrient mix is pretty irrelevant to how filling most meals are, and you should stop obsessing over it (because meals tend to have the three big ones pretty evenly balanced) . There ain't nothing special about chicken breast that prevents over eating. I'm breaking the "don't argue with fishmech" rule to say you're just plain wrong. You definitely feel more full after 600 calories of steak or chicken than 600 calories of pizza or chips. Part of it has to do with the body's glycemic response to simple carbohydrates. Part of the reason the ketogenic diet is my go- to diet is the satiety the foods it allows for provides. I've done traditional high carb mod protiene and low fat diet and I was always way way more hungry on that diet. I often agree with you but you just don't know what you are talking about here.
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Jan 21, 2016 05:41
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Bast Relief posted:Fry the chicken, pour ranch on the broccoli to make it palatable and now you've got a mess. This is why my coworker, who has been put on a diet because of sleep apnea, is driving me nuts right now. He's been whining everyday about how bored he is with his food and how gross veggies taste. He's literally shoved his Tupperware across the table with a big dramatic sigh that he just can't eat it, then complains about being horribly hungry. Well, part of the problem is that the one-size-fits-all eat-flavorless-healthy-stuff diet sets people up for failure. A 60-year-old friend of mine lost 120 lbs. by pretty much eating Quest Bars and other assorted MRP type stuff and the occasional chicken salad from Wendy's. She was 350+ needed to lose the weight for a knee replacement surgery. A big part of her success was finding foods she liked that fit her lifestyle and that she could stick to eating that fit her calorie goals - no matter how silly or seemingly "unhealthy." A big part of my weight loss is developing habits to the extreme. Eating things that are healthy and fit the macros I need that I can eat every single day. That way I never think about what I eat because I've limited myself to a certain array of things that I have at certain times. Hell, when I first started out and lost my first 20 to 30 lbs. I just stopped eating fast food and pizza, and regular soda and then counted calories for everything else. Of course, I was lifting weights 3 days a week and using the elliptical every day, so I had a little more wiggle room when it came to calories. Having a big fat guy, who is used to eating the most delicious stuff we can possibly create, go straight into chicken & broccoli for lunch every day is loving stupid. Your average GP doctor knows gently caress-all about how to actually lose weight or what it's like to actually do it.
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Jan 21, 2016 17:35
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ToxicSlurpee posted:That's not entirely true. The people I know who succeeded in their diets were the ones that cheated on them. Probably the most successful way is "6 days of healthy eating and if I behave I get to eat garbage for a day." It's way better than eating like crap 7 days a week and turns your favorite food into a reward instead of some tantalizing thing always out of reach you can't have anymore. This is what I've done. Some people (idiot assholes) say it creates eating disorders and other associated bullshit. However, it's the only way I've gotten through.
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Jan 21, 2016 17:37
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fishmech posted:
As a guy who can eat a metric gently caress ton of food, I will tell you I can down 3000 calories of Pizza easy peasy and not even get close to eating the same calories for chicken. After a couple of grilled chicken breasts, I'm done. I can barely finish an 800 calorie ribeye streak that I order at one of my favorite places. Also, LOL @ "keto nuts." It's worked for me before and it's working for me now. There's no evidence that it doesn't work for most people. There are hundreds and hundreds of people who it's worked out great for. I've had blood work done multiple times while on the diet and everything's always pretty perfect. But, if being a "nut" means I get to lose 100 lbs., much easier than if I was doing a high carb diet, then I'm content to be a "nut." They also use the diet to sometimes treat seizures and depression as well. I know your objective/gimmick is to use your copious amount of spare time to be as contrarian and pedantic as possible, so that you can get other people to waste their time. So, I'm not going to assume that I'll be able to say anything to change your mind. However, again, you just don't know what you are talking about and you need to do more research. You won't, though, because you're the smartest kid in America and your gimmick is to stake out a position and then sit there, forever, while everyone wastes their life arguing with you.
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Jan 21, 2016 17:45
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JFairfax posted:loving hell, does fishmech have a job or something? No.
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Jan 21, 2016 17:46
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silence_kit posted:Saying that in order to diet you have to live the life of an ascetic monk is going a little overboard. A lot of the posters in SA's fitness forum are ex-fat kids, and they don't seem to be constantly unhappy about not being able to scarf down junk food all the time like they used to. A lot of them don't live on diets of only chicken breast and broccoli too. It all depends on your mindset and your relationship with food. Also, the habits of those you surround yourself with count. Also, I wasn't talking about being an ex-fat-kid. My posts were referring to how things are during the process. It's a lot easier to be more liberal with what you eat after you've lost the 50 or 100 lbs. you need to lose. Management is easier than losing the weight. So, of course they're doing OK.
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Jan 21, 2016 17:48
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Cingulate posted:
That's so far from real life it doesn't even mean anything.
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Jan 21, 2016 17:49
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ToxicSlurpee posted:When I noticed myself porking up I changed my eating habits away from "cake every day" to "no cake at all" by not buying cake. Yeah, if you don't want to eat it don't buy it. However, that works OK for a single person and/or someone living with people or another person who have the same habits that they're trying to adopt and stick to.
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Jan 21, 2016 17:55
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Cingulate posted:Phrased the other way around: another thing that's against you trying to be slim is your friends. For a lot of people this is true. Especially if you do tabletop gaming or other nerdy stuff. When I used to hang at the local comic/gaming shop and play games there a few nights a week, food would be ordered all the time and you have constant cash-wrap stank availability. It's really tough being around food that you can't have, especially if it's your favorite stuff.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:06
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Asiina posted:Quest bars are delicious. I don't dispute any of that but I think a lot of people, maybe most people (and not necessarily you), believe that "lol just cook healthy foods and make them taste good" is useful advice for fat people. Yes, of course chicken and broccoli can be delicious but you need to actually know how to cook well in order to make them so. That's not something everyone knows how to do. Maybe "disgusted by chicken and broccoli" dude doesn't know how to cook so to him chicken and broccoli are just terrible forever. There is absolutely no one-size-fits-all advice or method for anyone. You have to figure out where people are starting in order to give them a map to the finish line. It's part emotional and mental battle, part physical battle, and part habit forming and skills acquisition. I've told people what to do in order to lose weight - different diets I've done that have worked, different workout routines, etc. - and they've seen me do it and seen that it's worked for me. Most of them just never tried or tried and quit and I'm not surprised. Dieting and exercising enough to make meaningful progress just makes the rest of our modern life 10,000 times more difficult. Hell, I can only imagine if I had kids and I was trying to do it. If it was easy everyone would do it and we wouldn't even be talking about it. Also, I think a big reason we have an obesity problem is because modern life is filled with more food, more stress, less personal time, higher cost of living, and lower wages than times before. You have all these forces acting on you all the time and then you have constant availability of food and of course a lot of us use that as our outlet.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:56
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twodot posted:I don't want this to be a dick measuring contest, but you should just understand that people who actually eat a lot of food would consider 800 calories of ribeye steak to be a small portion (in fact I'm curious how your favorite place is cutting/cooking ribeyes to produce a 800 calorie portion). Maybe your math is just off, but people in general seem to be massively underestimating how much food a person can eat if they put their mind to it. I was just ballparking the calories based on remembering the nutritional details. Also, I think we're talking about different types of people here. I am talking about the general fat person, like myself, and not Mongo the Overlord of Fat, Winner of Eating Contests, Devourer of Orphans. The point stands that it's a lot loving harder to down 1000 calories of grilled steak or chicken than it is to down 1000 calories of Pizza. I think people are underestimating just how many calories are in things like Pizza or Pasta and just how easy it is to overeat them. But, you know, let's all pretend fat folks are getting fat off of grilled, lean steak and chicken rather than candy, ice cream, pizza rolls, cheetos, mountain dew, tacos and pizza, because one time Fishmech saw someone in his school cafeteria gorging on grilled chicken.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:43
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Asiina posted:I don't think it's easy and I'm not saying it glibly that fatties just need to learn how to cook. I'm saying that more education about cooking can go a long way to helping people eat healthy without thinking that food has to be boring or limited. Agreed.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:44
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twodot posted:I mean yes, whatever platonic ideal of pizza you have in your head is probably less calorie dense than whatever platonic ideal of chicken you have in your head, actual preparations will vary. The point is if your arguing that it's hard to overeat certain foods while simultaneously claiming to be able to eat a large amount of food while also saying it's hard for you to eat a small amount of food your argument has a problem. If you had something other than your anecdote about how much steak or chicken you personally eat you might be ok, but right now you're claiming to be an authority when you transparently aren't. I guess you don't understand what I'm saying and instead, like Fishmech, just want to be pedantic in order to win an argument on the internet, or at least make the other people give up trying to disagree with you. My assertion is that it is easier to, and more likely that you will, eat 1000 calories of pizza or pasta - let's say from Pizza Hut, for the sake of argument - before you'll ever do the same with spinach, grilled chicken, etc. If you think people are getting fat from eating grilled chicken and broccoli you're a loving idiot and not worth talking to. gently caress you; I'm out. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-does-200-calories-look-like.htm Huzanko fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 21:20
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twodot posted:If this is your actual assertion why are you replying to me? I understand calorie density is a concept that exists and have directly stated so. My assertion is you don't understand, at a minimum, either how calorie dense specific foods are, or how much people routinely eat. You're also flagrantly ignoring the health halo effect, though that's not directly relevant if you're being honest when you say you aren't trying to assert anything more than that calorie density is a valid concept, and not anything about how people actually eat food. I doubt it since you seem to be trying to disagree with me, for some reason. I guess you have an issue with someone talking about their personal experience and the personal experiences of those they know struggling with weight lost since it seems to conflict with the special knowledge that you are claiming to. I honestly don't know why the gently caress you even replied to me or what you're trying to disagree with but, welcome to my ignore list, friendo. 
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Jan 21, 2016 22:09
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fishmech posted:So yeah, you're some guy who's so special that you can happily eat thousands of calories of pizza everyday. So why are you so flabbergasted by some guy being the same but for chicken? So, keto not working for people with pre-existing liver and kidney problems means it doesn't work for anyone and it didn't work for me? There are millions of people for whom it has and does work. I'm not sure why you have an axe to grind with it. I would say you're the nut since you're being hyper aggressive about a particular diet that was the only thing that ended up working for me as a plateau breaker after I had lost 50 lbs. doing traditional dieting and just stalled there and felt like crap. Also, you find it hard to believe someone could eat a large pizza by themselves in a sitting? I've done it and friends of mine have done it. Also, never did I say I've done it every day or that I do it now. What about that means that I don't know what I'm talking about? Just face it. People aren't getting fat off of grilled chicken and broccoli. It's certainly not impossible to overeat grilled chicken and broccoli and then gain weight doing so but it's highly irregular and unlikely that it's what has led to someone becoming fat. It's OK, you can admit that you're wrong sometimes but you won't because you're Fishmech and you've been probated and banned tons of times for being a pedantic dipshit, which is totally your gimmick and we both know it - you do it all day in different threads. It's like a hobby and/or game for you. An ARG where you see how much time you can get everyone to waste on you. "Eat less" is not good dieting advice. It's dumb dieting advice skinny people give to fat people. The connotation is "lol dumbass why not just eat less?!?! It's easy!" Also, I never said it was impossible for people to eat pounds of meat or whatever it is you're saying. I am saying it's easier to mow through 1000 calories of things like pizza, pasta, etc. than it is to do the same with lean meats. But, I totally get it, you just want to win and be right and no one's experience matters. One time you saw some fat guy eat a ton of chicken somewhere and thought to your idiot self "Ah, surely, that is why that man is fat. That must be why all people are fat! I hold the secret!"
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Jan 22, 2016 00:13
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twodot posted:I have a problem with someone talking about their personal experience when their personal experience is demonstrably wrong. Like I was expecting you to say "Whoops, I wrote 800, but I really meant 2000" or "I live in Europe and that is a lot by my regional standards" or "I was lying for rhetorical effect", because 800 isn't in the ball park. I wasn't expecting you to assert that calorie density exists. Let's take a look at a local steak restaurant I enjoy: John Howie. LOL! So, you have a problem with me getting the calories wrong?! Holy poo poo. So, the steak I get is usually about 1000 calories. So, what? gently caress off, man.
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Jan 22, 2016 00:15
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twodot posted:I'm surprised your surprised that my issue is you getting the calories wrong: I still don't know what you're trying to say or what you're disagreeing with. I said I'm capable of eating a lot and I have eaten a lot in the past and that's one of the reasons I was fat and regained all my weight after I'd lost it. You're not giving me any new information here. I also don't know why you think I guesstimate my calories because I was throwing numbers into one forum post about steak vs. pizza and I couldn't find the exact ounces or calorie count for the example steak I usually get when and if I do, which is not often. You're being overly pedantic and fixating on one number in one post to conclude that I know nothing. Are you a Fishmech alt? Also, re: chicken vs. pizza  That's 6.25 lbs of chicken compared to a large pizza. It's much easier to eat a large pizza in a sitting vs. 6.25 lbs. of chicken and if you don't think so you're living in a loving dream world. Also, if you were eating 6.25 lbs. of chicken you probably wouldn't eat it all at once if you even ate all of it. However, I have eaten a whole pizza in one sitting and gone on to eat more later on in the day and I've known a lot of people who have done the same. But, nevermind, I am the guy who doesn't know anything about anyone's eating habits. L8r dudes.
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Jan 22, 2016 01:06
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Asiina posted:I feel like you two are talking around each other and aren't actually disagreeing. I agree with this and the previous post. Also, I was never saying that anyone should ballpark anything when trying to lose weight. I count all my calories on MyFitnesspal and I used FitDay the first time I lost a lot of weight. My Pizza v. Chicken point was intended to disagree with Fishmech's assertion that it was somehow common that people were getting fat from eating grilled chicken and broccoli which just isn't true. You can become overweight by over-eating any food but it is unlikely that you will do so if you're eating "healthy" foods all the time. And, yes, anything you do in order to lose weight will involve eating less but the base advice of "eat less" is useless. It's completely and totally obvious and is part and parcel to any decent diet. If someone's diet consists of chips, pizza, mountain dew, and M&Ms, "eat less" is really stupid useless advice for them.
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Jan 22, 2016 02:50
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Yardbomb posted:I'm sure it's been mentioned plenty in a long thread like this, but another problem to some of the "Duh just eat less!" things is that pretty often, obese people are also very depressed people, who may be eating even more as another big effect from that. Plus, and this is usually more a factor for kids/younger people especially, the kind of bullying or harassment people can get from even being mildly fat just spurs that kind of thing on much faster. As it turns out, beating people up (Not really meant physically but hey use both ways as needed) over their problems rarely helps them get on fixing those problems.
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Jan 22, 2016 14:47
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Nevvy Z posted:Fishmech will always be right. Yep! He will stretch the original argument out or mutate any statement you make in order to serve his ends. You could write a novel and link out to 10,000 studies, charts, graphs, pictures and he would still find a way to stick to his point and then move the goal posts. I'm almost certain he has some sort of mental disorder. However, posting here long enough will do that to you. The best thing anyone can do with Fishmech is to ignore him. Huzanko fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 14:49
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Cingulate posted:As has been pointed out to you before, you are distorting the argument.
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Jan 22, 2016 17:09
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Nevvy Z posted:Great, are we allowed to have this thread without fishmechs constant input yet? all he does is drag the discussion down I can't believe he doesn't get banned for that poo poo. He's literally smothering discussion, stop engaging. He's been banned many times and just creates new accounts.
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Jan 23, 2016 16:18
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FSMC posted:Fishmesh doesn't believe what he is saying though. The issue isn't that he's stupid or wrong, it's that he thinks he's more intelligent than everyone and can out argue anyone whatever their position is. He is simply trolling, and the fact most people don't notice and argue with him, means he's pretty good at it.. Fishmech: The SA Forums Argument ARG
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Jan 23, 2016 17:38
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Fat acceptance is a reaction to bullying - stuff like /r/fatpeoplehate. If you're bullied long enough there's a compulsion to say "Ok, gently caress you, I am what I am and I'm sticking to it just to spite you." If you're seeing all these people who hate you and are generally mean and horrible to you and people like you, there's little compulsion to change because then they'd win because it proves they were right to hate you. I'm not saying that that's the only thrust behind fat acceptance but I believe that's part of it. It reminds me of friends I'd have when I was younger who would complain that they couldn't get a girl or boy to like them or couldn't make the kinds of friends they wanted and I'd say that sometimes we have to try to become the kind of person that attracts the kind of people we want to attract - being yourself and people liking you for you is kind of a myth, depending on who "you" is at a given time. They would counter this by asking why they'd want to change for people who don't like them. It's a feedback loop. Huzanko fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Jan 24, 2016 |
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Jan 24, 2016 02:36
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