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Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

brand engager posted:

I think all of our code more complicated than truncating a string has dependencies passed into it, and since we only want to test one class at a time in our unit tests that means nearly every test has mocks. Everything calls either another one of our classes or eventually an android component at some point to actually accomplish anything. We don't have any tests where there are multiple classes' real implementations being tested at once which is what I'd call an integration test.

Yep, this is what people usually mean when they say talk about codebases overusing mocks.

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Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
Is that a mutation testing reference?

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
I am not gonna say that I was happy during COVID, because you know, global pandemic and effects it had on my kids, relatives and general population, but I did not miss going to office even once during the ~2 years before the society decided that covid is actually over.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
There are very few things that need priority queues, the most common one is pathfinding.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
From context I assume you mean PR without automatic tests?

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Steve French posted:

There’s an epidemic among my coworkers where they use “deprecated” to mean “removed/deleted” and I can’t handle it.

Of the examples, this one does actually make me mad. Deprecated things can still be used, you just aren't supposed to. Removed things are very different and I will die on this hill!

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

thotsky posted:

I have never been on a team with opt-in (ie: no tech lead with sole responsibility for) code reviews where you didn't have to assign, notify and otherwise bug people into actually doing them.

Tech lead with sole responsibility for reviews sounds ghastly. And assigning/notifying people is normal, do you expect everyone to just look at all open PRs at all times to write notes? How do they know that the PR is ready? How do they know the PR should interest them?

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
I am not particularly happy about the trajectory of my current company, so I am interviewing again.

Apart from the usual interviewing bullshit ("competitive salary" -> proceeds to offer what would be ~25% paycut), I am continuously amazed at just how bad are recruiters at their job. I ticked the "remote work only" option on every platforms where I have a profile, why the gently caress do you send me job that is on-site and NOT EVEN ON THE SAME CONTINENT?

Similarly, half your job is talking with people. Why do you not even have a microphone and rely on the built-in mic in your tablet?

Just uuuugh.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
I pity the fool that has daily stand-ups.

I would however tell my direct about being blocked early on, right after I'd see the communication on why it's taking so long break down.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Steve French posted:

I’ve never understood the idea of standups being for sharing blockers. If I’m blocked on something I’m sure as hell not waiting for a meeting to communicate that

Right?

I am pretty antisocial, but even I can send Slack PMs to people.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
Obviously we have, and I am pretty sure everyone was that junior at some point.

I just think that standups are lovely solution for that problem, especially with how easy it is to turn them into "justify why you haven't finished all your tickets yet" by mediocre managers.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Aramoro posted:

Do you have a fix for this that doesn't rely on the blocked person being good at their job or having the manager micro manage every ticket?

Why should I not rely on the blocked person being good at their job, or at least the manager pushing them to get better over time?

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Aramoro posted:

Because if a ticket takes 3 days it's hard for someone to know if it took 3 days or it was blocked and the engineer sat with his thumb up his rear end for 2 days. If an engineer is blocked and no one is around to hear are they even blocked?

Presumably you estimate tickets, so if someone always takes 3x as long, they need either extra help from their manager to get better, or be shown the door. If it happens only rarely, does it matter much whether the ticket was misestimated, or they went off a weird tangent and now know waaaaay too much about the internal details of how Windows handles paths? In both cases they presumably learned something (in the former, what to look for next time we are doing estimations, in the latter, waaaaay too much about Windows paths), so it's fine. Obviously there is a spectrum and the manager should help people move to the "happens rarely" side.


Now if someone is the type to just sit on their hands for 2 days waiting on an external input instead of picking up a different ticket from backlog, that's a different problem.



Aramoro posted:

Also junior engineers don't always know when they are blocked so it can be helpful for them to articulate their issues to people regularly.

I agree and I think that the manager (or TL, depending on how you split this in the team) should keep up with the junior engineers much more tightly than with the more senior ones. Again, I don't think you should just let people do whatever, I just think that daily standup is a terrible way of keeping tabs on what's happening, and encourages bad managers to be bad at their jobs.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
Developer docs belong in a markdown file in your repo, and that's a hill I am 100% willing to die on. At my current place we are instead pushed to use Notion and you can see the drop in quality between the in-repo docs and Notion docs when it comes to being kept up to date. It is also much harder to correlate what version of the code the docs were written for, with the actual code.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
"'accidentally"

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Volmarias posted:

If your management cannot tell if they're doing their work or not, it doesn't really matter if they are working two jobs, or just suck.

BAD AT STUFF posted:

That being said, I'm also not sorry that I don't have to work with that person anymore after some reorgs.

Both of these. I don't particularly care whether useless coworker is useless because he is quadruple jobbing or simply useless, I just want a useful coworker. But if your management thinks that forcing people into offices is going to solve the issue, they are bad and you are stuck with useless coworker either way.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Falcon2001 posted:

I think that realistically, the higher up in a company you are, the more you probably value being at the office. Your job is mostly about communicating and meetings, and those have some clear upside in person,

I agree with this sentiment in tiny companies that have not outgrown single office yet, but I wonder how do you square it up with the typical megacorp existing across multiple countries and continents, so once you are higher up you won't be having in-person meeting in office anyway, because you need to talk with people in dozen other places.

e.g. my mom is not in tech, but has risen fairly high up in management in global pharma corp. Half of her typical day is spent in meeting (some days even more rip), but those meetings are all remote even if she is in office, because the participants won't even be in the same timezone, much less in the same office.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
I used to like in Prague, 7 minutes from subway. I still preferred WFH.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
Every time I read something like this, I wonder whether everyone else's workplace is weird, or I am just incredibly lucky about the places I work at.


PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

In office makes it easier to achieve "friendliness" because you're less likely to interrupt someone who is clearly busy; WFH still has a huge mess of competing mechanisms where it's unclear what constitutes an interruption.

I can read notification whenever, I can't really ignore someone standing next to my desk.


PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

WFH has empowered increased laziness with technical communication. When a team has at least one person in authority who refuses to use written communication --- ie every team --- wfh becomes call center hell, just waiting for the next "let's have a quick meeting about it!" preventing you from starting focused work. In office those types tend to schedule meetings instead with suitable warning, and historically learned to write poo poo down because they had no expectation of getting quick chat answers when they were sitting in meetings with their bosses and didn't have the answers.

I only have had this happen during my short stint at Microsoft, where the people were fairly open about seeing Covid-induced WFH as temporary, and didn't bother to establish remote-friendly practices. At my current place I have unscheduled call maybe twice a month? And by unscheduled I mean "poo poo be complex, let's have a call after lunch to pair on this", rather than outright call.


PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

In office does require different personal presentation and planning, but I disagree that WFH is a free-form mental vacation: You can't just take a walk because those external activities cause real unexpected delays. In an office "well it's lunchtime don't try to do stuff 5min before lunch" is easy to fix because teams tend to notice who takes off for lunch regularly. More likely with WFH is "well they aren't responding, don't use status settings, they might be walking a dog or themselves or at lunch or gone", so many 1-2hr tasks have become daily-turnarounds. (And, sure, people should "use status and it's all fixed", but the point is that people simply don't). Daily standups solved the issue of proximate teams being so busy that simple tasks would lose priority (did you forget to review my doc?). We don't even need dailies anymore because now everyone expects to need to follow up since schedules are entirely randomized (I'll check back in 24hr if they haven't responded, but not "in the morning" or "after lunch", but wtf some random time for every task and every different person).

Again, what? I just send people a message and let them handle it at their schedule. If you have coworker who regularly ignores messages that came in while they were AFK, the solution is a talk, a pip and a firing if needed.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Mega Comrade posted:

My team know they must set their status when they go to lunch, if they go missing and haven't set their status, they get a telling off. It was solved within the first week of me implementing it.
That sounds like hell.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
What are your plans for "it is 4 in the morning, the one guy who knows that poo poo is asleep"?

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Mega Comrade posted:

We have more flexibility when it's "out of hours". Most of our customers are the same timezone as us so it's been not too much of an issue.


That's fair I guess. I am in place where the engineers are distributed across multiple continents so the idea of distinguishing between someone not responding because they are on lunch, because they are asleep or because they turned off notifications to focus on hard work is not relevant.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
That all sounds completely insane, where does everyone find these places?

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Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Oysters Autobio posted:

Thing with docs is that if you really want to bother with *any*, it's sort of all or nothing.

Either setup dedicated docs SSGs so your team can easily edit markdown in the same commit, or don't bother.

If all you can actually do is a sort of manual / half assed "expectation" that ppl will update the confluence, then don't bother.

If setting up markdown docs SSG sounds too onerous then it's probably not actually as important as you think it is. It's just not convincing to me that someone says something is mandatory, zero-fail or mission-critical but won't actually engineer something to support that.

Isn't that just literally having markdown file inside git repo on github/gitlab/any good git frontend?

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