USPOL Dec: The War on Christmas -- Just another example of the War on Coal

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL Dec: The War on Christmas -- Just another example of the War on Coal

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Tempest_56 posted:

Because they know people literally don't know anything about the refugee resettlement process and don't do even the most basic of fact-checking. A significant portion of Americans believe that being a refugee means that someone shows up in a boat on the shore, is given a green card and is given a house/medical care/a secure job/stacks of raw cash. This is something people actually believe, and I have heard from the mouths of otherwise sensible human beings.

You've forgotten outright refusal to accept claims from any source they don't consider legitimate. I have a Boomer-aged cousin who rants about this poo poo on Facebook, I linked him to the state dept's briefing on the whole process and he dismissed it with 'we all know the government's been lying about this give me PROOF' and when I asked him what sort of proof would satisfy him, I got no reply.

So yeah, its not just not fact-checking, its not accepting any source that's not Rush Limbaugh or the likes because 'they all lie' or 'are just a liberal/Democrat mouthpiece.'

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 19:35

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# ¿ May 20, 2024 23:37

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

LionYeti posted:

Is it time to have a US Mass Shootings thread, this is happening often enough to deserve it.

355th this year!

# ¿ Dec 2, 2015 22:33

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

BonoMan posted:

It's not really anywhere except a random hearsay eyewitness report of a middle eastern man with a long beard which is most likely not true. It just triggered "what if" scenarios.

And even this wasn't related to the shooting at the IRC event but rather the unrelated shooting at the mall, and the description was a Middle-Eastern male with a beard and headphones, 'possibly' armed.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2015 23:21

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

My Imaginary GF posted:

Genocide is a very profitable business model. Kill an entire ethnicity and seize their assets without reprocussion? Why not, if you aren't guided by judeo-christian values?

So I guess the entire United States was founded by Muslims, then? Cuz that's pretty much how this country came into being in a nutshell.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2015 20:45

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

mcmagic posted:

I'm sure all those projects are going to work out just as well as the clusterfuck that was his Newark School donation for his pals Cory Booker and Chris Christie.

That was to deflect negative publicity from the release of the Social Network.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 18:29

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

INH5 posted:

In terms of death toll, right wing terrorists are significantly more dangerous in the US than Islamic terrorists, with the exception of 9/11. AQ and ISIS are far more dangerous in other parts of the world, but that's hardly surprising since US right wing groups don't operate outside US borders.

Tell that to Nigeria and Uganda.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 21:40

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Honestly, I've wondered on several occasions why American terrorism is all about guns and fire and practically never about "stuff a bunch of gunpowder and nails in a pipe or pressure cooker". Lack of knowledge is probably a big factor, as is the mega-easy availability of guns and the untraceability of gasoline.

The poor, poor state of science education in this country. More STEM focused education + more gun control = more bombings in about 20 years.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 22:26

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

LookingGodIntheEye posted:

This is a derail, but considering that all gender-based restrictions on military service will now be lifted in January, I have to ask: does holding men and women to different physical performance standards endanger, or provide a vulnerability to, in any way, soldiers in combat?
I apologize if this topic has already been discussed or for any ignorance on my part.

It would, if they were going to do such a thing, but they're not, so it won't. Women have to meet the same physical requirements as men.

The real interesting question will be if women should be eligible for the draft now that we've acknowledged anything he can do, she can do.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2015 06:32

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Paul MaudDib posted:

In Flint, Mich., there’s so much lead in children’s blood that a state of emergency is declared

(What's up with the passive voice, WaPo?)

Yeah, the emergency manager that Governor Snyder appointed decided to use the Flint River (notorious for the last 100+ years for being heavily polluted due to industrial runoff from the automotive industry) as the source of drinking water for the city instead of Lake Huron from a Detroit water company. Cue businesses in Flint paying extra money to relink to the Detroit water because the Flint River water was so corrosive it was loving up their machinery.

People began complaining about the water being rusty and smelling/tasting foul and feeling horrid and the city selectively tested a few homes that were on newly-replaced pipes and surprisingly found acceptable levels of lead in the water. Any tests of other homes were jerryrigged to produce acceptable results also (letting the water run for up to a half hour before testing it, stuff like that) or just outright lied about. Combine the corrosive water with already aging and underused infrastructure due to the steep population decline thanks to local industry disappearing and the water was a mess. (Personal anecdote: was staying at my grandmother's house over Xmas last year which is in Flint and took a shower in this water. It did something horrible to my hair to the point where it felt dirtier after the shower than before I got in. Went to my sister's just out of town just to shower again in her well water to get the film off and had to wash it like three times).

Concerned citizens had to finally go to an EPA guy in Chicago to test the water instead of just being blown off which is when the Superfund levels of lead in the water were discovered (I think the highest was like 10,000 times the legal limit) and then FOIA and such revealed documents that those in charge knew and were actively taking steps to cover it up.

It is a total shitshow and I hope to God everyone involved up to Snyder burns for it.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2015 18:37

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Radish posted:

Is this the same Emergency Manager that the public voted to have removed but then the Governor ignored that and went forward regardless?

Yup.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2015 21:07

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

KomradeX posted:

Do you have any news links?

Have like, a zillion going all the way back to when they first switched:
http://flintwaterstudy.org/articles-in-the-press/
An aggregate site of a lot of what's been going on. You can donate money to buy lead water filters for Flint peeps to not rot their brains!

Related articles on the whole Flint City Managers debacle, which directly led to this lovely situation (again gently caress Snyder and his cronies forever):
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2011/12/emergency_manager_michael_brow_3.html
Appoint a guy being paid $170,000 a year to save money for a poor city by docking the pay of people who make maybe 20k a year: way to save tons of money!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/18/flint-emergency-manager-michael-brown-plan_n_1213140.html
Oh hey let's 'renegotiate all collective bargaining agreements.'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/03/flint-emergency-manager-michael-brown-public-meeting_n_1252544.html
When he finally deigned to meet with the plebes, three months after being appointed.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2012/01/water.html
Privatizing sewer and water. I mean its not like those are essential services.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/21/judge-stalls-detroit-consent-agreement-flint-emergency-manager_n_1369307.html
Hey guys, maybe this poo poo ain't as legal as you thought....

http://www.freep.com/article/20120327/NEWS15/203270432/Appeals-court-puts-Flint-emergency-manager-back-charge
Oh wait Michigan's packed Court of Appeals says 'let's not jump to conclusions.' Money quote:
"The state says it believes the financial review teams are not subject to the Open Meetings Act."

http://www.cbs46.com/story/18786809/3-flint-residents-sue-over-emergency-manager
Flint folks ain't having it, sue.

http://nbc25news.com/news/local/emergency-manager-repeal-petition-denied?id=746758
They also filed to put a petition on the ballot to get rid of the emergency manager but oh hey, a deadlocked Board of Canvassers (voting on party lines of course) put the end to this democracy idea right quick. But surely they had a legitimate public interest reason for doing so? Right?

quote:

The reason why two members of the election board denied the petition was because they say the size of the print on the petition was too small.

Republicans: keeping old people who refuse to wear glasses safe from the ravages of misrepresentation.

So whose fateful decision was it to use Flint River water?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/11/22/records-mich-gov-office-loop-flint-drinking-water-decision/76222312/
Looks like old EM Kurtz, who declined to comment (not that the city council was blameless, they still voted for the move).

The real kicker of this 'cost-saving' move?

quote:

Mayor Walling was quoted in March 2013 saying Flint would continue to get its water from the DWSD until the $272-million KWA pipeline system to Flint was completed. On Friday, he repeated his assertion that the plan was to stick with Detroit as an interim source, and said he was not aware of any pressure from Dillon or other state officials to instead use the Flint River as an interim source because it would be cheaper.

That decision came later, for reasons that are not entirely clear. Flint and Detroit, under the control of state-appointed emergency managers since late 2011 and March 2013, respectively, could not agree on a rate structure for the DWSD to continue serving Flint until the KWA pipeline was completed.

The failure to reach a pricing agreement on an interim water supply for Flint is puzzling considering Dillon's Treasury Department had commissioned an engineering study, which in February 2013 said it would be less costly for Flint to stay with the DWSD than to switch to the KWA. Also, state officials were consumed at the time with trying to keep Detroit out of bankruptcy, and for Flint to split with the DWSD could only make Detroit's financial situation that much more perilous.

Dillon said in an email to the Free Press Friday that although Detroit may have been under the state's control, the DWSD was not.

"After we signed off on Flint joining the KWA, Flint was to negotiate with the DWSD regarding using their water during the construction of the KWA," Dillon said.

"DWSD at the time was overseen by a board appointed by (U.S. District) Judge (Sean) Cox as the system was under federal oversight," Dillon said. "If Flint was unable to negotiate a fair deal, I recall their backup plan was to use the Flint River. I don't recall Treasury being involved in the negotiations with DWSD or, after negotiations broke down, in Flint's decision to switch to the Flint River."

So it would benefit neither Flint nor Detroit to switch to Flint River water, and in fact would hurt both communities. So who is this Judge Sean Cox? Let's see...

quote:

Sean Francis Cox (born September 24, 1957 in Detroit, Michigan) is a United States District Judge for the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan. He is the older brother of Mike Cox, Michigan's Attorney General.

President George W. Bush nominated Cox to the federal bench on September 10, 2004 to fill a vacancy left by Judge Lawrence Zatkoff. Due to the opposition of Michigan Senators Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow, Cox's nomination was not voted on until June 8, 2006, when he was confirmed by voice vote.

Prior to joining the federal bench, Cox was a trial judge in Michigan for the Third Judicial Circuit Court in Wayne County, Michigan. He was appointed by Republican Governor John Engler in 1996. Before that, Cox was in private practice in Michigan from 1983-1996. Cox received his law degree from the Detroit College of Law in 1983, and a B.G.S from the University of Michigan in 1979.

He administered the oath of office to his brother Michael on January 1, 2007.

So yeah, he's a Federalist Society Republican. Surprise surprise. And his brother? About what you'd expect. Affair-having, Obamacare-hating, unilaterally acting AG who was defeated in 2010. You may remember him for not firing the homophobic asst atty general who harrassed the poo poo out of the UM gay student assembly president until public pressure forced him to do so. You know, typical Republican office holder. He ran for governor in 2010 and lost to Snyder in the primaries (no bad blood there; he donated 3400 to Snyder's campaign).

There's a long history of the DWSD here, but the money quote:

Crain's Detroit Business posted:

While it seems clear that the timing of Judge Cox�s decision is coincidental with the appointment of an EFM for Detroit, as a practical matter it may open the door for those who are looking to leverage the City of Detroit�s ownership of DWSD and its many assets as a means to generate revenue for the City. As this possibility is considered, the federal court, which has overseen DWSD�s operations for decades, will not have a part in its consideration. The federal court will not become involved again unless and until DWSD violates its NPDES permit in the future.

What Crain's doesn't say?

quote:

Detroit�s bankruptcy case produced the Great Lakes Water Authority, a new regional organization that oversees water and sewer services to much of southeast Michigan.

Supporters say it means more regional cooperation, and better management of its huge water system. But the Authority also has plenty of skeptics.

That clash is nothing new to the region, �That city versus suburbs, or suburbs versus city mentality, that really prevailed over the past several decades,� says Nick Schroeck, director of the Transnational Environmental Law Clinic at Wayne State University.

It�s a long history, as Detroit�s water system is one of the nation�s oldest and largest. As the metro area grew and sprawled, Detroit kept control of the central infrastructure even as more suburbs tapped in. That meant Detroit controlled water rates, which didn�t make its suburban customers too happy.

�Water and sewer rates are extremely high, and have been going up substantially over the past 10 years,� says Brian Baker, the budget and finance director in Sterling Heights who is Macomb County�s representative on the Great Lakes Water Authority board.

So yeah, basically Republicans used the dissolution of the DSWS to wrest control of suburban water and sewage from Detroit. The new Great Lakes Water Authority were the ones who caught the attention of United Nations for turning off water to delinquent (private homeowner) accounts. (Corporate accounts which owed a hell of a lot more and would have made more sense to turn off, were left untouched). Just no end to this rabbit hole, is there?

But I digress.

So if the deal was going to screw over both Detroit and Flint AND not save any money, what were the EMs/Judge Cox thinking? Gosh, I wonder. (hint: racism and punishing liberal minority-majority cities with long histories of labor activism, also removing the 'undesirables' so they can remake Detroit in their own image. Ever heard of the Detroit Future City plan)?

quote:

the Detroit Future City plan was unveiled last year (2013), presenting a long-term blueprint for Detroit policy-making for the coming decades. The report offers strategies for reorganizing Detroit, moving people from less-occupied neighborhoods to streamline services, and reforesting vacant areas. Many have praised the plan, including the Kresge Foundation, which has pledged $150 million to help implement it, as well as Mayor Duggan�s development chief, who has called it �his bible.�

On the surface it sounds great, right? But what's it go to do with the water thing? From the previous link:

quote:

You said the report sounded like it was written by civil engineers.

Hammer: I said that [the report�s] water section is. The [blue-coded] infrastructure very much reflects the thinking and methodologies of a civil engineer addressing a technical problem, which is how to manage storm water � and you do so by channeling it into drains and making the right gradients and putting it in the retention ponds you want. That section is very clearly marked, as one would expect, with a logic and ethos of civil engineering. I was then saying, by matter of analogy, that the same template actually is reflected in the treatment in trying to move people around. That�s where institutional economics comes in. If you think about what�s the cost of staying, what�s the cost of moving, how much access do you have to public services, what�s the inconvenience of being increasingly isolated, at some point you make the cost of staying greater than the benefits. And when the cost exceeds the benefits, people leave. You can actually manipulate the playing field to make people make logical decisions to �voluntarily� leave, and you can channel them in the same way that the engineers are channeling the water to the places that they want it and the places that they don�t.

This is getting way long and I'm getting ~~suicidally depressed~~ tired, so I'll leave you with this interesting piece on the history of EMs in Michigan. (Seriously, read the whole thing, its important to understanding the whole situation).

DrPop posted:

But yeah the Flint water thing is an obscene disaster, whether you opt to look at it from the perspective of EM mismanagement or government bumblefucking in general

Ain't no bumblefucking or mismanagement about it, son. They're doing what they were paid to do: clear out the undesirables, one way or the other.

Oracle fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Dec 15, 2015

# ¿ Dec 15, 2015 22:21

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Raerlynn posted:

Amazing. Bart Simpson would be proud of this troll.

He also sent the same identical threat to New York City schools, which ignored it as a hoax and are snickering at LA (Which to be fair has a bit of a right to be spooked given recent events).

# ¿ Dec 15, 2015 22:45

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Paul MaudDib posted:

We didn't "allow" the emergency manager thing to happen, though. We actually voted it down in 2012 but Snyder just passed it again a week later (this time with funding for something-or-other attached so that it couldn't be subject to another referendum).

Republicans have an iron grip on all three branches of government in the state. Whatcha gonna do? �\_(ツ)_/�

Occupy and Sit Down. This is Michigan birthplace of the UAW. People are so beat down anymore, with such little sense of community, its unlikely to happen but people are also getting seriously fed up. I'm honestly surprised noone's taken a potshot at Snyder or anyone else yet, this is the state where the first day of deer season is a holiday.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2015 04:26

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

CroatianAlzheimers posted:

Hahahahahahaha, you really think Labor means anything in this godforsaken state anymore? It amazes me how quickly the assholes around here forget what their fathers fought and died for. Michiganders are loving infuriating, this whole state is infuriating, and I'd leave in a heartbeat if I could convince my wife (a Michigan native and UofM alum) to do so.

You'd be surprised who remembers what. Unfortunately racism is stronger than solidarity.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2015 07:35

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Property tax is really the only way because it's super easy for the very rich to skirt income taxes.

They skirt property taxes too, just by building juuust outside the city/county line and refusing to incorporate even as the city grows and incorporates other developments, sometimes surrounding said development entirely.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2015 19:56

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# ¿ May 20, 2024 23:37

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Rhesus Pieces posted:

I'm pretty sure legally they don't have to, since they never leave the WH grounds to drive on a public road.

Did that car even come with seat belts?

# ¿ Dec 31, 2015 21:59

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL Dec: The War on Christmas -- Just another example of the War on Coal