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Would be interesting to read the actual briefing. My impression was that the attack was primarily intended to sabotage the peace agreements, but confirmation would be good.
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Oct 12, 2023 21:36
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Irony Be My Shield posted:And also made it much, much harder for anyone still on Gaza's side to argue that Israel's response is wildly disproportionate. dadrips posted:Not really, collective guilt is the same thing no matter how you want to frame it and holding an entire polity with a population of two million accountable for the actions of a subset of those two million isn't what I'd call the actions of a moral country. Hamas' actions were evil, but Israel's response somehow manages to be even moreso.
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Oct 12, 2023 22:36
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I will note that insisting that it's Genocide - not discrimination, not occupation, not even apartheid, but full on genocide* had exactly this long term goal - of legitimizing any "resistance" as good and proper, and claiming nothing can actually get worse (or better) for Gaza, as Israel is already genociding all the inhabitants in a concentration camp. And since Hamas is resisting genocide, that means Hamas isn't ISIS. Hamas hasn't spent the last 3 decades sabotaging the peace process because having another faction head the Palestinian state \ autonomy is unacceptable and because it aims at destroying Israel rather than ending occupation in the territories (and of course, it doesn't matter what it intends, as it's never going to destroy Israel \ it would be a good thing if it does). Hamas didn't start this massacre to sabotage peace talks Arab states have with Israel (and those talks are bad actually, anything the Palestinians get in the process will be a mere pittance) - it's the only hope of Palestinian resistance against the genocide. * But of course genocide is not the same thing as exterminating all Palestinians (in Gaza or in general), except that's exactly what it means and how the term is used when not forced to qualify. ... A bit earlier, someone asked me what the gently caress I even want: 1. The safe return of all hostages. 2. The civilians of Gaza surviving this \ being safe. 3. Everyone in the IDF surviving this \ being safe. (Yeah, I'm Israeli). 4. Every Hamas militant being killed. 5. Netanyahu and his cabinet hanging from lamp posts \ going to jail. 6. At this point, why the gently caress not wish for a secular Palestinian state co-existing with Israel. Probably not going to get any of that. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Xander77 fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Oct 13, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 08:11
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DelilahFlowers posted:Why should the IDF who massacred thousands of children being spared here? If anything, the IDF should be completely dissolved for its terrorist acts ... The focus here (and elsewhere in Western media) seems to be on the massacre at the festival. In Israeli online spaces, there's more of a focus on Kibbutz Be'eri. Both because of the details of the massacre, but also because it's a kibbutz full of the accursed leftists (yes, near the Gaza border. Within the Green Line, for all that it matters to anyone. Been there for 70 years). Many \ most of the victims were all for the peace process. Some volunteered at B'Tselem or other for Israeli-Palestinian NGOs. A number worked directly with the Gazan population. That didn't matter. For the Hamas, they were all settlers. For a certain type of right-wing shithead, that is incredibly encouraging.
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Oct 13, 2023 10:09
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Bholder posted:Like come the gently caress on, I thought we are intellectual enough to be above the common "you hate Israel? That means you want every Israelite dead" talking point by now. Also: .... The internet is currently is full of Gazan civilians and kids celebrating and supporting the massacre, used to justify their death.
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Oct 13, 2023 12:20
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