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fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012
I mean that case would probably be 2nd degree in the US; neither premeditated nor committed in the grips of an intense emotional state (said emotional state downgrade it to manslaughter). I'm not familiar at all with Israeli law, but if it doesn't differentiate based on the same criteria, that sounds like it makes sense.

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fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012
If I was going to lean my forehead against a wall to, um, pray I guess? I would want a large, soft, furry hat too.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012
It's in the interest of both Zionists and anti-Semites to confuse the issue. Zionists can use it to dismiss attacks on Zionism or Israel as racism, and anti-Semites can use BDS and Anti-Zionism as fig leaves for prejudice against jews as a whole.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Svartvit posted:

As someone who often complains about homophobia in Muslim countries, I have yet to be called Islamophobe by anyone. When does this happen?

It happens to new athiests like Dick Dawkins who are in fact Islamaphobic, but like to pretend that accusations of Islamaphobia are just PC culture gone mad.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

team overhead smash posted:

Palestine has a right to resistance. Israel does not have a right to ethnically cleanse or annex another country as some of those at this funeral were calling for.

Killing kids isn't valid resistance; the girl didn't have any choice in where she lived or who her parents were.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

team overhead smash posted:

Did you read the very next paragraph I wrote?

Sorry, it wasn't super clear until I reread what you meant.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

team overhead smash posted:

I for one am glad that Hamas has forsaken the use of Voltorbs and Electrodes

Isreal will continue to consider them a threat until they take Geodudes out of their childrens' hands.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012
So are most Israelis cool with having something like 10% of the population willfully having no skills or employment and living primarily on welfare? I'm surprised there isn't widespread anger about that.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Dead Reckoning posted:

Ah, South Africa, that famous middle eastern country known for its primary export of being analogous to whatever is convenient.

"Yes, you see, South Africa was able to unwind its government without bloodshed." *looks nervously at Zimbabwe, Angola, Eritrea, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Turkey, etc* "That is totally a thing that will happen in this completely different situation." *across the room, Yemen continues to self-destruct*

Hmm, it's almost as if there is something else the Israeli and South African apartheid governments have in commons. Something to do with their relationship with the USA and Western Europe.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Dead Reckoning posted:

What, you think being reliant on the U.S. is the secret sauce to a successful transition to multi-party democracy... and we just forgot to tell the Iraqis and Iranians?

Iran and Iraq were the results of installed colonialist governments failing, while South Africa was a foreign brokered settled peace between a developed nation and its own oppressed people, instigated by their economic ties to the country. Israel is closer to the latter than former.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Dead Reckoning posted:

Uh, people in this thread have repeatedly assured me that Israel is a foreign, colonialist government.

Cool deflection

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Ultramega posted:

man, shut the gently caress up.

She's the best poster in the thread.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

"What if personal attacks weren't allowed??" he said, while accusing others of being terrorist sympathizers and anti-Semites.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Barry Convex posted:

I really don't agree that putting the Star of David at the center of a rainbow flag can be plausibly argued to have nothing to do with the state of Israel, particularly after seeing extremely similar flags used by the pro-Israel contingent at NYC Pride yesterday (those had rainbows at top and bottom, replacing the blue stripes on the actual Israeli flag).

It's really not their fault that Israel decided to use one of the two most major symbols of their religion on their national flag.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Barry Convex posted:

From my own experiences with the Jewish community, I highly doubt that anyone who would wave a Star of David flag in 2017 would see it as a wholly apolitical expression of Jewish identity that has nothing to do with the state of Israel. I don't agree that it deserves the benefit of the doubt.

If they were just wearing the Star of David on T-shirts or hats or buttons, fine, leave them be, but flags have symbolic value beyond those and the organizers were right to identify them as pro-Israel. There are no reports of Jews at the Dyke March who weren't waving such flags experiencing harassment, for what that's worth.

And Muslims that wave a star and crescent flag must support Turkey and Erdogan???

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012
I'm not clear on why were even pretending that an Ethno-supremacist state has any sort of imaginary "right to exist".

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

hakimashou posted:

There are many 'ethno states' such as China

rofl look at this loving moron

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

hakimashou posted:

If well-intentioned people want to make a difference then they are barking up the wrong tree with Israel. There are millions of lives to be saved from starvation, malnutrition and preventable disease all over the developing world.

All those things are also way more important than posting like a dipshit in this thread. Hop to it!

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Lady Morgaga posted:

Maybe. Although antisemites tend to jump on "opposing the Occupation and Israel's ongoing policy of Apartheid " bandwagon very readily. And when you stand shoulder to shoulder with them it will rub off on to you.

What is this moronic argument Jesus Christ

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Lady Morgaga posted:

Antisemitism gets no days and actually supported. So consider it a kind of progress.

Why don't you post some and we can test this theory

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Kim Jong Il posted:

That has absolutely nothing to do in any capacity with Israel.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

qkkl posted:

Are there other historical examples where a nation conquered some land but didn't immediately annex it? Curious to know how those scenarios played out.

Depends on what exactly you mean by 'annex'. Puppet and client states have existed for a long time thought.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Snatch Duster posted:



What do you think Bokros meant by this?

He means immigrants end up supporting the economy as the population of Hungary ages and declines, just like they do in most developed countries. See Japan as to why this is necessary. Why, what did you think he meant???

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

hakimashou posted:

Does HAMAS give people due process before executing them?

Rofl so you're a troll, right?

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

lollontee posted:

What? Boycotts, sanctions and divestments do not force people from their homes.

He’s claiming that forcing settlers out of the West Bank is ethnic cleansing

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Kim Jong Il posted:

It's reactionary because it's a right-wing, ethnonationalist movement devoted to endless, perpetual war regardless of its "progressive" trappings.

But enough about zionists

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012
No two state solution is viable unless Israel not only cedes half of Jerusalem and all settlements in the West Bank, but parts of Israel proper as well. You clearly oppose all of those things as genocide, so your ostensible solution is hollow.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Gaza and the West Bank need to have territorial contiguity, or else their sovereignty is threatened.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Palestine would not be the only non-contiguous sovereign country, anyway. Quite a few countries have exclaves, Kaliningrad being the most famous one.

With a third of their population? I'm sure you know this argument is disingenuous.

Disinterested posted:

A legally legitimate settlement would, but that's not really in the works. Sovereignty is an issue to discuss though since Israel essentially demands any potential Palestinian state not have any, but this is a stupid angle to come at this point by.

My point is more that there is no reasonable agreement that would result in a viable Palestinian state at this point.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Absurd Alhazred posted:

No, what's disingenuous is pretending that territorial contiguity between the West Bank and Gaza is part of the obvious two-state solution when you have basically introduced this requirement yourself.

I absolutely am not the originator of that requirement.

It has been a major component of Palestinian demands for decades. It's frankly bizarre that you are arguing otherwise.

e: Anyway, even ignoring Gaza, Israel has zero interest in withdrawing from the West Bank or forfeiting what amounts to total control of Jerusalem.

fool of sound fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Nov 13, 2017

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Absurd Alhazred posted:

It's not talking about taking up Israeli territory, it's talking about free passage between the separate territories. They reject Israel wanting the ability to limit movement between the two region, treating them as separate entities.

Your first source and subsequent sources cite the 1967 borders. Here are the 1967 borders:



There is nothing physically connecting the West Bank and Gaza. There is no basis here for any land to be taken out of Israel proper to allow for a physical connection - again, this would mean that Israel would be split into two parts, according to you ceding its sovereignty. That's not the two-state solution.

Oh, I was misinterpreting, sorry.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Kim Jong Il posted:

You need to come to terms with the fact that you virulently oppose peace.

You’ve literally said in this thread that a Palestinian right of return and expulsion of Israeli settlers in the West Bank is genocidal. I’m phone posting now, but if you deny this I’ll go pull quotes later.

A peace deal that is effectively a legitimized occupation will not in fact result in peace.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Pantsbird posted:

I've heard this one but I don't understand it.

The book club members need to form the book club. It's not up to the WH40k club to do it.

If book club members can't agree on a book, afford books, or reserve a venue, that's their own problem.

Unfortunately, in this idiot anime metaphor, the student council allowed the 40k club to take over part of the room occupied by the book club. Unfortunately, the 40k club has continually taken space from the book club until they have about one old beanbag, and on the other side of the room, half a bookshelf. I do like that you chose the fascist parody tabletop game to represent Israel tho.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Nameless_Steve posted:

You cannot expect a newly liberated people, still recovering from a major genocide, to suicidally submit itself to a potential new one.

So you’re talking about Palestinians in this scenario right?

E: more seriously this is fundamentally identical to arguments supporting South African apartheid

fool of sound fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Dec 15, 2017

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012
In a vacuum it’s possible, in that if you had a state of sufficient size, in uncontested land, that consisted ethnically and religiously only of Jewish people, you could have an ethical Jewish safe haven state.

Once you introduce complications, that kinda goes out the window. You can’t really have a multiethnic/multireligious state that explicitly favors a particular ethnicity and religion without implicitly endorsing the violent sustaining of that privilege.

If your definition of Zionism doesn’t require a specifically Jewish state it’s also possible, I suppose.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Afraid you're again mistaken.

We have a really good emote for this! :wrong:

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

Payot? Those are straps from the construction hat Spidey avatar that someone photo-chopped a fedora over.



But keep grasping at straws you racist piece of poo poo. :allears:

pffhahahahaha

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

emanresu tnuocca posted:

What's the significance of the manspider?

Hard hat Spider-Man is a meme ever since some crazy person bought like 100 posters that image as an avatar

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Kim Jong Il posted:

BDS is collective punishment, a class of conduct that cannot be justified by any reason. And BDS is not focused on the occupation. As long as the goal of BDS is the right of return, it's advocating a profound, historic level of violence. BDS demands "resistance" (aka permanent war) until every single demand is met, compromise is collaboration.

Collective punishment: refusing to buy Israeli products, not collective punishment: militarily blockading an entire densely populated city. I’m glad the literal stupidest argument in the thread is back.

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fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Kim Jong Il posted:

When did I say that wasn't collective punishment?

Uh, so then are you arguing that the Israeli occupation is unjust, but nevertheless Israel should suffer no consequences for it? What the gently caress are you even arguing?

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