Ask me about Alcoholics Anonymous

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Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

Howdy fellow goons and goonettes! I'd like to start an ask thread about Alcoholic Anonymous, and if you have any questions I'd love to answer them for you. But before we get started let's talk about what AA is and what AA isn't.

aa.org posted:

Alcoholics Anonymous is an international fellowship of men and women who have had a drinking problem. It is nonprofessional, self-supporting, multiracial, apolitical, and available almost everywhere. There are no age or education requirements. Membership is open to anyone who wants to do something about his or her drinking problem.

About myself: I'm an AA regular with 9 months of sobriety as of 11/23/2015. I started going to AA as part of a mandatory condition of my treatment. I stopped going after treatment concluded because I disliked the meetings, and thought they weren't helping with my sobriety. I (somehow) stayed sober for the 5 months I wasn't required to go, but a friend I had made while sober recommended a good meeting to go to, and I still go to that meeting( and a couple more every week) to see a lot of the people I've become friends with.

Before we open this discussion I compiled a FAQ that I think would be beneficial for you to read, as I feel it addresses a lot of caveats I've encountered:

The mention of God really bothers me, because I am an atheist/agnostic/follower of the fly spaghetti monster.

Thats perfectly fine, and although a lot of the opening and closing prayers mention God in them you don't have to say anything when that prayer is said. In fact a very good friend said in a meeting:"My belief in God may vary wildly from what you believe in, and if my God isn't something you want, then that's fine." The important thing to note here is that however you choose to believe is not a factor of AA, but your own belief in how you practice sobriety. If you don't want the religion, that's fine. No one is there to convert you to their religion. I am a Deist if that helps any.

I went to a meeting once, and the people were rude or jerks to me

I am sorry that happened. I really am, it always bums me out to hear about a bad experience at a meeting. I've definitely had my fair share of terrible meetings in the past. Please don't let this deter you from trying another one(I'll touch on that further down this OP).

I have a family member/friend/spouse who I believe needs to get clean or sober AND/OR I have had experience living with an alcoholic:

It's a wide spread belief that you can't force anyone to get sober, they will naturally find it when they are ready. However if you feel that you would like to talk about your experiences in dealing with alcoholism close to you Al Anon is right up your alley.

Every AA meeting I've seen in TV/Movies is really depressing

The real ones aren't. Maybe some exist that are like that, but for the most part AA is a celebration of sobriety.

The coffee is terrible

Yes it is.

Before I get down to the nitty-gritty, lets look at the twelve steps!

aa.org posted:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol�that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

There they are. Believe it or not a lot of those are pretty openly phrased. It's for a reason!

Sponsors
It's recommended when you begin your journey to sobriety that you have a sponsor. There are bad sponsors, we all know it. Some suck, and some a great. Here's what to look for:

1. Someone who is in at least their 2-3rd year of sobriety
2. Someone who doesn't act like they are in year 1 of sobriety
3. Someone you can relate to
4. Someone you share common interests with
5 (If anyone has any recommendations I'll add them here)

Literature of AA:

The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous
Living Sober
As Bill Sees It
Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions
Many others

Where to find meetings:

Sober alcoholics are everywhere! Seriously, a quick Google search of AA meetings in your area will give you a nice list of "Where & When". I'd encourage you to try a few meetings, meet some people and get recommendations for some other good ones!

Narcotics Anonymous:

I have limited understanding of how these meetings work, being that I've only gone to a few, but anyone can let me know about it and hopefully we can talk about that here too!

Goony friends of Bill W.!
Frank Viola - Sober since 2/23/2015

So ask away! Lets get some AA talking going on!

# ¿ Dec 7, 2015 22:02

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# ¿ May 18, 2024 13:45

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

Reserved for future use maybe NA and Al Anon if it's needed.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2015 22:03

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

Tahm Bwady posted:

Congrats on your sobriety! As I child I lived with my father, who was an alcoholic and he always mentions my mom and I leaving him as the "rock bottom" sign that he had to get his poo poo straight. Did most of the meeting's attendees share that same sentiment of a "rock bottom" convincing them to go into treatment? Or were most mandatory participants?

A lot of the people there come in after what's called a white light moment. That moment is figuratively when you hit "rock bottom". Mine was waking up in a jail mental health unit with a felony charge. But I'd say about 90% have a rock bottom moment.

Honj Steak posted:

I once heard somewhere that the success rate (i.e. people successfully living soberly for a prolonged time) of AA is almost the same as for those who don't do anything special. Is there any truth to this statement?

I believe it. I stayed sober for months without AA.. That's probably a viable way to go. Some need AA others don't.

Modulo16 fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Dec 8, 2015

# ¿ Dec 8, 2015 04:25

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

tallkidwithglasses posted:

How are you supposed to be an atheist at AA when 7 of the 12 steps invoke God and a couple of them have you effectively going through the born again process? It doesn't seem like there's any way to reconcile "I don't believe in a higher power of any kind" with acknowledging one, asking it for forgiveness and praying to it regularly.

The answer to that question is: I don't know.. I'll ask an atheist at a meeting tomorrow and get you an answer.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2015 04:27

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

Quad posted:

Short answer: It takes work.

It takes a good group, skewing younger, that won't just mentally shut you out as "he's not ready yet", and then you essentially accept Reality as your higher power. You'll improvise, as you can't really pray to reality, but you CAN sit and reflect on your specific shortcomings and make plans on ways to overcome them.
Overall AA (should be) is about recognizing that you can't fix an addiction alone, and while "I'm not alone, I'm doing this with God" might sound silly, if they honestly believe it, it's not. Plus they're also going to meetings with real people, their sponsor is a real person; AA is a community, not, like, a method of prayer.

If it's too much work to find the right meeting or to adapt the steps to your beliefs, there are several "secular recovery" groups out there, but good luck finding one not formed specifically to take money from addicts that "don't wanna be preached at, man".

I also really like this answer.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2015 04:36

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

slap me silly posted:

Alcoholics Anonymous: The Cesar Milan of addiction treatment

Would you mind telling me why you make this comparison? I don't know who Cesar Milan is. But I don't believe that AA should be the only treatment for addiction, and I don't know of anybody who only went to AA to get clean and sober. A lot of us did outpatient and I received mental health services as well.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2015 14:45

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

Thanatosian posted:

I think what slap me silly is referring to is a lot of the criticism that AA is not based at all in modern medicine; that it is essentially "Woo" or a cult.

A couple of articles about it:

This one from the Atlantic is probably your best bet.

The Independent goes a little more into the cultish aspects of AA.

I'll read these both and get back to you on it.

CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:

Do you ever have a week go by without any snowflakes insisting that there is no God?

It seems to me that it would get tiring.

This is a serious question. My perception of AA is what I hear from other people.

It's usually once a meeting. Not really tiring, it is to some but I've definitely had my fair share of eye rolls when someone acts pious and emphasizes the existence of God in a dramatic way. Those people are much more tiring.

Not a Children posted:

Have you read Infinite Jest, and, if so, how accurate would you say David Foster Wallace's portrayal of AA is?

I have not.

alnilam posted:

I've always been curious, how can a court force you to attend AA if AA has these religious aspects? Not to diss AA, if it works for someone then good for them, but legalistically I'm confused how a court can order somebody to attend a specifically religious group.

Or am I mistaken and courts don't force people to? I've heard it happens, and you sort of imply it in your OP too.

Congrats on your sobriety btw

I don't think I'd force anyone to go, and a lot of the time I've seen it only for a certain number of times. I can't speak for anyone else but I believe they do that to show how alcohol can hurt more than just the person drinking. Thank you kindly.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2015 22:37

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

Magugu posted:

Congratulations on your sobriety, I know it can be debilitating and have a major effect on ones life.

Why do you feel that AA has worked for you? Do you feel that you could have had success through other means, such as rehab, cold turkey, etc...?

I believe that AA has helped me to leave behind activities and people that were detrimental to my sobriety, I had no problems staying sober in without AA. However, it got really lonely really fast when calls stopped coming in from people I used to drink and do drugs with, and the meetings helped introduce me to sober people who I could do sober activities with.

Rehab is a mixed bag. I felt that half wanted sobriety, and the other half just had some other obligation to court/family/etc, and couldn't wait to finish so that they could be back into what they were doing previously.

I think in short is that it's entirely dependent on the person. If that person wants to get sober, then they will get sober. If they like what AA has to offer, then great! If not, then that's perfectly fine too. I don't think that person will fail if they don't attend AA, and I really dislike anyone who says otherwise.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2015 23:31

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

rock rock posted:

How easy would it be to attend court mandated AA whilst drinking regularly?

Is it truely anonymous?

You can show up to every meeting drunk if you wanted. Only you are allowed to announce your association with AA. If someone else does, they hosed up.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2015 12:35

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

The_Angry_Turtle posted:

AA helped me get over a drinking problem by making me so afraid of every having to go back to an AA meeting that I can't remember the last time I've had more than two drinks in a week. Any time I feel like it might be fun to get drunk all I have to do is think about grimacing through another recitation of the steps/traditions to make the impulse vanish. No brief reprieve from anxiety and depression is worth another night of bad coffee jokes and depressing war stories.

Sounds like AA worked for you!

# ¿ Dec 9, 2015 12:36

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

grapecritic posted:

Why do you think AA refused to publish any data on their success rate? Is medication based treatment (antabuse, antidepressants, etc.) encouraged or is it a taboo of sorts?

Members of AA don't give treatment advice when it comes to medications or treatments outside of AA. They are not licensed therapists. AA probably refused to publish success rates because of the anonymity aspect of AA. Also I don't think there is anything to quantify because people can lie about time sober.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2015 21:17

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

PromethiumX posted:

I've known some people who were court ordered to attend AA (mostly from DUI/DWI convictions / plea). Evidently the court requires you to keep a log of your attendance which is supposed to be substantiated by the signature of someone attending that class.

But Alcoholics Anonymous...

So they attend no meetings and have the guys at the bar sign the attendance sheets. And because its all supposedly anonymous the counter to the "Well I didn't see you at that meeting" is simply "Well I didn't see you either".

I've heard this from multiple people but have fortunately never been forced to / had the need for AA.

Is it true what they tell me?

I used to sign my own mandatory meeting slips all the time.. They can't exactly call can they?

# ¿ Dec 10, 2015 04:58

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

Soylent Yellow posted:

Do you think that AA's disease theory of alcoholism has the possibility of encouraging a lack of personal responsibility and willpower? I would think it would be quite easy for some individuals to take the "I'm sick, not my fault, nothing I can do about it" route and lose control completely.

It's more meant to acknowledge that those of us that are alcoholics will (unless somehow prevented) die as a result of our drinking. We will continue to drink until an event occurs that either stops us from being able to drink (jail, hospital, rehab, choosing to get sober), or we die. The point of calling it a disease is to more elaborate to members that alcohol will kill you if you are an alcoholic. They use disease maybe to make it more EXTREME. I've seen a lot of people use: "Welp Im an alcoholic,not my fault guess I'll drink more because what's the use?". I feel badly for them, and I've luckily met a lot more that never drank again.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2015 22:36

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

slap me silly posted:

This is a religious belief, not a fact about addiction, and it is one of the main things that causes me and others to have a problem with AA.

I've never really noticed it but yes.. That is a religious belief.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2015 03:25

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

The Bible posted:

If it is a disease, it should be treated by a doctor, then.

I received out outpatient treatment for 10 months. I think there's a line where being treated by a doctor begins and ends.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2015 13:46

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

slap me silly posted:

Maybe religious wasn't the best word. What I mean is, it's not a rational statement and it's not supported by any science, yet AA sells this idea constantly. And it is kind of a consequence of the 12 step framework, which has an explicit and fundamental religious orientation despite that people will say "you don't have to be religious, it's just what it means to you!"

Scientifically speaking, I think probably a big benefit of AA is the social support, and that's nothing to sneeze at. Unfortunately it seems to be irretrievably mixed up with the religious guilt thing.

I don't feel that way, though I do agree that the prayers they do are definitely centered around organized religion (i.e. Serenity Prayer). Those are literally said at the beginning and end of every meeting, and you don't have to recite it. The social support is huge, and that's a main reason that I go. I compare the amount of knowledge there to any other wiki. Odds are if you are having a problem staying sober for whatever reason there is always someone who has experienced that same issue, and in turn can offer advice if asked for it. I feel as though the religious aspect is really the most off-putting factor of AA, and in places like college towns, it definitely doesn't get mentioned nearly as much as when I go to meetings when I'm home visiting family.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2015 22:33

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

The Bible posted:

Man, you're describing an old high school friend in creepy detail.

He vanished for ten years, then suddenly pops up on Facebook preaching the Twelve Steps and about how no person could possibly avoid or escape addiction without Jesus (and refused to explain how most of us had easily done just that).

It seems to me that he just traded one addiction for another. All his friends have fled him just as they did when he started stealing from us to support his meth addiction (My Disease made me do that!), but it isn't because he's an insufferable dick, but because he is now in the Light, and Darkness always flees from the Light.

Darkness also apparently is able to hold down a steady job and doesn't need a sponsor to stop it from sucking dick for another hit. It can also enjoy an occasional beer without completely falling apart.

The problem with the "Spiritual" bullshit is still the basic message of AA. You are powerless to ever overcome your addiction. You're defeated from the start.

I get that addiction is a disease, but to me, that just makes AA and its ilk even more harmful. A cancer patient isn't treated by other cancer sufferers, they're treated by highly trained doctors. Why should an addict be any different?

Addiction is either truly a disease and needs to be treated by qualified professionals, or it isn't and can be poorly handled by other unqualified addicts who eventually need to decide not to be addicts.

It can't be both, but AA seems to want it to be.

Also, let's stop pretending the god AA refers to isn't obviously the Christian god.

I think anyone acting sanctimonious and overly pious drives people away. Sure, we can admit that the god AA refers to is the Christian god. Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's a duck. Some people definitely do act high and mighty. I refer to these people as the "Deacons", they claim to have 20+ years of sobriety and act like senators at their home groups. Relationships do happen in AA, and I find that to be absolutely ridiculous. Some people are annoying, narcissistic, hypocritical, and uneducated. But there exist a few people in every group that genuinely do want to be there to offer help to newcomers in AA. You take what you need from the meeting, nothing more or less.

Keep this in mind, the steps don't exist for everyone else. They exist to help the person move on from past mistakes. You think taking a fierce moral inventory, and apologizing to everyone you've ever wronged is everybody else? Hell no, those people don't care at all. They might appreciate it, but they're not going to be like: "It's totally okay that you raided the open bar and felt up my wife's sister at my wedding, lets have dinner sometime." They'll probably just say "sure, whatever".

Is AA more harmful? Possibly to some, but not all. And yes, you're right addiction and mental health should be treated by qualified professionals.I don't consider AA as therapy. Additionally, I don't think I've ever heard of someone refer to a person as a normie, maybe those people aren't at my groups. But, I will say that I would never chastise a person for drinking, or doing any kind of substance. That's their path, I have my own.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2015 07:04

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

JnnyThndrs posted:

One thing I think is rarely said and extremely important, is that there is no real overarching xA hierarchy. There are national organizations for NA and AA, but they only really exist to organize national and regional conferences, print literature and occasional fight legal battles relating to the anonymity of xA.

And that's a good -and- bad thing. It's good because there's no ability to commercialize or corporatize XA, there's no records that could be used to track anyone, and it kinda puts the kibosh on the shrill cry of ITS A CULT. How can you have a cult with no leader?( please, don't answer this, it's a derail that never ends well) And anyone can start a meeting at any time without permission from anyone.

But it can be bad thing because ANYBODY can start an xA meeting - the only requirements are adherence to the Twelve Principles and Twelve Steps, a place to meet and some drunks/addicts. So you have a tremendous variance in meeting quality and tone.

There are loving terrible meetings where broken people tell war stories for an hour and the whole thing is infused with blatant religious bullshit. There are great meetings with excellent speakers who stay on target, are amenable to helping newcomers without being overbearing, and keep the "God bullshit" to a bare minimum.

But you're never gonna know which is which without dragging your miserable, addicted rear end to a bunch of meetings, and it's hard enough to make yourself go to one. Also, they tend to be in church rec rooms and poo poo because there aren't a huge amount of places that are willing to rent a room to a bunch of scraggly-rear end addicts for a couple nights a week for a tiny amount of money. Which turns some people off, quite understandably.

I don't attend xA meetings regularly myself, although I have and probably will again take friends to their first meeting for moral support. I'm a staunch atheist who's higher power is an ancient grove of sequoia redwood trees, and I strongly believe the AA Big Book is itself the biggest enemy re public opinion of AA.

It was written like 75 years ago by people who weren't writers and is full of misogyny, outdated language and religious references that are unneeded. Contrast the Big Book with the NA Basic Text, which was written in about 1980 by professionals, is updated regularly, and the difference is night and day.

But recovering alcoholics tend to view any changes to the Big Book about as well as NRA members view gun control, and I sorta understand the reason - they look at it as something that saved their LIVES, so to them it's sacrosanct.

That's an interesting perspective.. Yes the big book is out of date.. I will read the NA basic text.. It sounds interesting.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2015 22:00

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

Cholmondeley posted:

The Big Book was written in the 30's and 40's, and in many aspects is out of date, although they have updated many of the personal stories to include women and minority voices. The underlying principles of the 12 steps and 12 traditions though are pretty solid. I can understand the great reluctance to accept the spiritual side, because I was that guy for several decades, and kept going back out and staying drunk.
The big shift for me was when I realized that I truly could use my own personal concept of higher power, and kick everything about religion to the curb. No one pressures me to accept any particular deity. (even though the Big Book was clearly written for Christians)

I hear an awful lot of denial in this thread that sounds like the version of me that used to scoff at sobriety from my lofty barstool.

If your group is full of sanctimonious assholes, find another group.

After several hospitalizations, two stints in rehab and 7 or 8 failed attempts with three different sobriety programs, (Rational Recovery SMART Recovery, and AA)
What I've learned is that AA works. I'm a little over 5 years sober, after a 30 year drinking career.

YMMV.

Hey! Way to go!

# ¿ Dec 15, 2015 00:20

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

Polaron posted:

Everyone really interested in this thread should listen to the latest episode of NPR's RadioLab podcast, 'The Fix'. Part of it goes into AA and its success rate and how our mentality regarding addiction and the rise of AA has stymied attempts at a medical fix for addiction, even though said fixes seem to exist.

I have actually heard this podcast. I like it a lot and I feel that rehab and addiction facilities that use AA instead of doing. Actual medical addiction services are being lazy and shouldn't be allowed to bill patients for it. At the same time I don't think there is a magic bullet fix for alcoholism either.

# ¿ Dec 23, 2015 20:40

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

Up Circle posted:

Now see, I don't care about the Jesus stuff one bit, but OP, how can AA be truly anonymous if nobody wears masks to hide their identity?

From the way I see it. Everyone in the meeting may see each other in daily life. When you do you can carry on as normal, say hi, or even if you both want to talk about AA and it's agreed upon you are both comfortable about it you can talk about it. It's more about not going up to someone saying hi, and telling other people around they are in AA.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2015 17:01

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

Cugel the Clever posted:

As someone who frequents local coffee shops fairly regularly, I come across plenty of AA sponsor-sponsee meetups. So far as I can tell, they involve reading a few verses from the "Big Book" aloud, bullshitting about what it means to them, and then audibly leching after whatever young coeds wander innocently past. All in all, can't say that I'm impressed.

What exactly is the supposed to be achieved in such Bible study? It sounds like things would be better led by a professional addiction therapy specialist conducting actual cognitive behavior therapy.

I went through a 4 month CBT therapy before and in conjunction with AA, and those people are insufferable. Not representative at the population, and if my sponsor tried to make me read the AA big book aloud in a coffee shop I'd walk out and probably never go back to an AA meeting again. What can I say? People are pretty dumb.

The Bible posted:

Not in my experience.

By all means. Enlighten us.

# ¿ Dec 25, 2015 17:01

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# ¿ May 18, 2024 13:45

Modulo16: Feb 12, 2014; "Authorities say the phony Pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and incredibly foul mouth."

Pohl posted:

It is more that AA is full of people that are predators, and even if they stop using, they are still predators. Women new to the program are vulnerable as hell, obviously, and you have these guys that are veterans at taking advantage of them. It is a rather sickening thing when you get into it and witness it. It is so bad, the veteran women of AA basically surround the new women and won't let a man near her. The veterans know, and do their best to shield the new women, but it doesn't always work.

I wish I was overstating this, but if anything, I'm understating it. It's horrible.

I agree with you and its awful..

# ¿ Jan 2, 2016 21:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask me about Alcoholics Anonymous