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Arglebargle III posted:Here's my big manifesto for how the prequels could have been done better: Anakin should have been cast older in episode 1. I legitimately think that Anakin should have been the same age as Luke. I think a lot of things would flow more easily and frankly make more sense. Edit: Also it wouldn't have ruined some poor bastard's life. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 21:33
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WeAreTheRomans posted:Wait, is El-P a Goon, or has "welp" permeated the mass consciousness? Man, that poo poo predates the internet.
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Dec 15, 2015 18:38
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The Force Awakens will be the worst thing ever created by mankind while also revolutionizing film and changing the way you view the world.
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Dec 15, 2015 22:29
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Hulk Krogan posted:I find it fascinating that people apparently feel that stories which they previously enjoyed lose something if they're not "official." This is really not complex. A 'canon' story is one that other stories recognize. When a story becomes non-canon it means that stories no longer recognize that and even when you enjoyed that particular story it also means that anything that might deal with the consequences or fallout from that story will no longer happen. With something like the Star Wars EU it has a long line of characters, stories and plots which were left unfinished. Almost all of them were terrible but "you shouldn't like this thing, it was terrible" is and won't ever work as an argument point. That doesn't mean someone can't enjoy a story on its own merits but if you're enjoying the soap opera style of "how does this impact the world" and that latter part is removed then it does lose something even if the story stands on its own merits. It is up to someone to decide if they can about that individual part or not.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:52
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cargohills posted:That doesn't apply to the Star Wars EU, given that they weren't mentioned beyond little nods in any of the 6 previous films. The Disney canon will be just the same, because only a very small proportion of the people who watch Star Wars read the comics or books. Beyond the fact that the prequel trilogy did actually acknowledge at least one part of the EU, there were also television shows, video games and other material which absolutely recognized the EU in fairly significant ways. If you liked Mara Jade there were two video games where you could play as her.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:33
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Nail Rat posted:The EU was clearly only allowed to run rampant with the whims of bad genre writers because they never intended to actually make any post-ROTJ movies. That changed when Disney bought the company and assets. Pretty much this but it doesn't really change the fact that the lovely genre fiction got a fanbase and, regardless of how much people scream that it was almost all poo poo (and it was), they're not glad to see it cut off.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:48
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cargohills posted:TV shows and games are EU as well. They aren't movies. The capital city of Coruscant first appeared in Timothy Zahn's novel, matching (roughly) what is presented in Phantom Menace back in 1991. No amount of "it's not the same" will change the fact that the films did recognize the EU to some degree if just in that one specific way. Fans felt like, more or less, the movies and the EU were interconnected. You're trying to make some point about how the EU wasn't the central focus of the films which is correct but also utterly meaningless to the people who actually care that the EU was revamped. There was over a decade where a sustained established EU was presented and people became fans of it. The fact that it was canonical (and it was canonical, there was a long stupid hierarchy of canon) was part of the appeal and also meant the EU kept going. I don't personally care and I dislike the idea that films should be bound to the mindless bullshit established in a terrible tie-in novel or whatever but if someone enjoyed something it is understandable they are disappointed that it was cancelled and will no longer be recognized by material that used to recognize it. (Such as, again, games, comics, other books or the films themselves.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 23:01
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cargohills posted:The EU still does get parts of it recognised by comics or the cartoon. There's been no meaningful difference. Yes there is. The entirety of characters who were introduced in the post-RotJ EU are completely gone now. The next time a game comes out you can bet that Chewbacca wasn't crushed by a moon and Jaina and Jacen Solo won't exist. If you liked any of those characters or concepts like the Yuuzhan Vong or whatever they're gone and (thank god) not coming back. They are replaced by Starkiller Base and Kylo Ren and whatever other things the new films do. There's probably stuff that will trickle over if just through sheer fanboy desperation but yes, everything in the old EU is finished and it is never coming back. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 23:35
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cargohills posted:They exist as much now as they did before. There was never any possibility of a sequel retaining of the EU stuff anyway. No they don't because there is no longer anything new being made in that particular branch of EU (which is in fact a distinct different from how Star Trek) handled it and there won't be. Prior to that new content was coming out on a regular basis and now no content is coming out featuring those characters and never will again. Hammerstein posted:We cannot thank Abrams enough for wiping out the poo poo stain of the EU in one swift superlaser blast. On the other hand the plot of the new film appears to be about a Star Wars fanboy who collects Star Wars memorabilia and is after Luke Skywalker's lightsaber! OldTennisCourt posted:I have the Zahn novels and played the KOTOR games, is there any other decent EU stuff I should look at? No. It's pretty much all poo poo.
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Dec 17, 2015 00:29
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Race Realists posted:okay this is driving me crazy, i gotta ask: Yoda is presented as a wise sage who does not remotely emphasize the physical elements of combat. He actually recommends Luke leave his lightsaber behind and emphasizes the idea that judging him by his size and his looks is a fool's errand. He demonstrates that his power is far more in his connection with the force than his physical capabilities. In the kind of stories that Lucas is borrowing from this kind of character is presented as someone who either doesn't need to physically fight or whose fights are swift and over in moments rather than the more showy and flashy techniques of inexperienced novices. Him having a lightsaber isn't out of character, his fighting style being rabid honey badger is pretty odd.
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Dec 17, 2015 18:54
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Steve2911 posted:I can kind of understand clapping over the credits, but if you clap or cheer during the actual film you need to get the gently caress out of the room and think about what you've done. So have they.
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Dec 17, 2015 22:26
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porfiria posted:People have been clapping at movies forever dude. I remember them clapping for Star Wars '97. He's not making an actual argument he just wanted to post something after someone mentioned his avatar.
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Dec 17, 2015 23:33
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's not about establishing causality. I am talking about the phenomenon as it appears today, where applause tends to accompany films with established fanbases - be it Harry Potter or Les Mis. People clap at films they enjoy regardless of if those films have an established fanbase or not. As do they yell out things at the screen, express shock or emotion at sudden events, and other such things. This has been a thing since before the internet existed in any meaningful form and was a cliche before most of us were born.
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Dec 18, 2015 00:39
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:And yet, this 'natural' behavior doesn't happen in the UK. Congratulations SuperMechaGodzilla, you've discovered that different things happen in different places at different times. We're very proud of you. Gonz posted:Was he wearing this? I sort of want this shirt.
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Dec 18, 2015 02:56
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Correct. Nah. You're just struggling to defend the dumb conclusion you didn't think out because you were in a rush to post it.
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Dec 18, 2015 03:17
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:I nearly laughed when kylo took his helmet off That is pretty intentional I think. That scene is shot very specifically to make him look ridiculous and kind of sad. The lighting and shot choice basically make him look like a pimply teenager.
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Dec 19, 2015 05:25
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You know what, I'm not even spoiling this. What the hell do people mean "the political situation was unexplained in the movie." They set up the entire political situation in the opening crawl. There is nothing more complex going on there. They don't really cover the major effects of the planet exploding but that is because the planet exploding is effectively (and LITERALLY) a combination of Palpatine dissolving the senate and the Death Star blowing up Aldaraan in ANH. People didn't need either of those things explained.
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Dec 19, 2015 05:29
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Frackie Robinson posted:This is kind of what I guessed, but where does that come from? The opening crawl. Proposition Joe posted:What was unexplained is where the First Order came from, if the Empire is still around, if those two are the same things, This is also explained in the opening crawl where it unambiguously states that the First Order rose from the remnants of the Empire. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 06:12
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I'm not sure, but was it established that the opening sequence was Finn's first combat drop? Yes, he says it during one of his conversations with Rey.
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Dec 19, 2015 06:15
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Frackie Robinson posted:This is all we get about the Resistance's charter in the opening crawl: They mention it during one of the evil speeches as well IIRC.
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Dec 19, 2015 06:18
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NTRabbit posted:Yes, and Jakku has... nothing about it at all. There was no culture on display, just a landscape. .. Yes it did? Like straight-up it plainly showed it was a scavanger culture not a thriving civilization. Every single shot in the area focused on that, even the joke shots like someone diving out the SECOND a TIE Fighter crashed to start looting it. It's presented as a desperate hellhole where everyone is struggling to gain the approval of a scant few. This is nothing like Tatooine which is presented as a kinda lovely but overall functioning desert planet (in the original films) and a weird slave hub (in the prequel). Jakku is one of the better-defined planets in the Star Wars films. From the time spent there we have a really clear idea of what the hell is up with it and what kind of place it is.
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Dec 19, 2015 09:30
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NTRabbit posted:Just pointing out it's a not too great copy of Tatooine. Both desert planets to start the story, but in the same amount of time that TFA takes to explain essentially nothing, ANH does a good job of conveying frontier farm, on a frontier planet, with the wealth controlled by criminals of various shades. Oh. So you're just going to yell "Abrams!!!" and ignore what is actually in the film. Gotcha.
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Dec 19, 2015 09:32
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NTRabbit posted:No I'm not. I didn't think it was a great movie, and it just happens that the reasons are very similar to why I hated the new Trek movies. Prior to these I had no opinion of Abrams, now I feel it's a trend. Yes, but you're pretty much objectively wrong. Here are a few things established about Jakku: It was the site of a gigantic battle and the wreckage of that battle still litters and defines the environment to the point where almost every bit of economic power we see on the planet comes from scavanging. There's no real sign of natural growth or farming or anything of the sort and the ration controls appear to be pretty strict The power is in the hands of a few elites who have no problem with oppressing the underclass but it is not a slave culture but something more insidious. The rations are handed out basically based on whatever the rich owners think they can get away with. Because of the combination of the two it's effectively a very predatory culture. Everyone we encounter on Jakku is a scavenger looking for the maximum profit they can turn. We're shown this repeated and every bit of set design emphasizes this. There's direct comparisons to the Jawas to be made but Jakku is effectively a planet where Jawa-style scavenging and trading has eclipsed everything else. There's little in the way of leisure or culture because nobody can afford it. Unlike Tatooine which was a relatively stable planet Jakku is a true shithole. You're not getting anyone going to Toshi Station to pick up Power Converters because instead these people are just eeking out their days in wrecks trying to find something worthwhile enough to survive another day. The ideas are very clearly set up and communicated and you just ignored it. None of this is subtext it is presented plainly onscreen. Pretending like they didn't explain anything because they didn't have a cantina scene is ridiculous. You're free to dislike the film if you don't like it but you're pretty wrong when you claim they didn't develop the planet. Frankly they spent more time on developing Jakku then they did on things they probably should have. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 09:44
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Kurzon posted:We only see one settlement on Jakku, one that was probably built especially for salvagers. There may be more to the rest of the planet. We see two settlements, including the one that is attacked at the start.
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Dec 19, 2015 10:14
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Jewel Repetition posted:That reminds me, I've been wondering for a long time, were the prequels the same deal where they retconned the EU, or was there always dark time set aside that was off-limits to writers and the prequels filled? No, it's okay, see, it was heroic GREEN lightning so it was totally okay to use it to murder people because you were really sure it was justified.
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Dec 19, 2015 10:59
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I really appreciate that FInn's thing is That is he compassionate. He isn't the greatest pilot (That's Poe) or the super-elite Jedi (that's Rey) or anything like that. He's just a genuinely good-hearted person struggling to do what is right, and I really hope the later films stick to that. It would be genuinely interesting for the major emotional climax to be Finn redeeming someone (Ren?) despite not being a Jedi. After 6 films of how Jedis are the best it's really nice to see FInn praised entirely for being brave and doing what he feels is right despite not being the best around and having moments of doubt.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:26
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It's actually not taken directly from that, it's a new take and slightly different from the original. It was probably just recorded for the trailer though
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Dec 20, 2015 00:03
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MisterBibs posted:I can't figure out what they are going to do with Kylo's character. The Dude Who Killed Han Solo isn't getting a redemptive arc, and since he started at ineffectual villain, it'll just add to the comedy when he inevitably comes back and gets himself punked again as Rey and potentially Finn get better at their force abilities. I can't figure out what they're going to do with Vader's character. The Dude Who Killed Obi Wan isn't getting a redemptive arc.
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Dec 20, 2015 01:22
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Luigi Thirty posted:Eeeeeeh. We've only known Obi-Wan for 75 minutes at that point. The audience is much more connected to Han, plus Kenobi and Anakin aren't related. Obi-Wan Kenobi is a character you know either for a vast majority of the runtime or from the three prequel movies depending. Regardless he is absolutely someone you're supposed to be connected to.
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Dec 20, 2015 01:46
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jivjov posted:Vader's redemption has felt a hair...off to me since episode III came out. This guy murdered a roomful of children, and attacked his pregnant wife, and then there's the OT and the implied stuff from "he helped hunt down and destroy the Jedi". So in your mind the only choice is for someone to remain evil forever or die. That is incredibly lovely. It's also lovely that it took you until Episode III in that case when he helps murder literally a planet in the movie he debuts in.
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Dec 20, 2015 01:57
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jivjov posted:I'm not saying that the choice is "remain evil or die", I'm saying that there are consequences for evil, and Vader's crimes were extensive. He did a good thing, killing Sheev and saving Luke. But that doesn't fix 99% of the other things he did. You said it's only believable because he died paying for his crimes. Han Solo is an illegal drug smuggler who is implied to do pretty terrible things. In the new film he casually talks about how he got an entire crew killed capturing deadly animals to sell while simultaneously scamming two criminal organizations out of money. I guess we should be glad he died because he's a callous greedy killer..
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Dec 20, 2015 02:03
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jivjov posted:Yeah but the people Han killed were at least combatants of one kind or another. A room full of toddlers and other younglings are not. The fact that you consider that more meaningful than literally murdering a planet is kind of hosed up. MisterBibs posted:The only way to be an idiot is to think Kylo Ren is threatening at any point in this movie. Kylo Ren is absolutely threatening. He, in fact, kills quite a few people. Someone who is wild, prone to lashing out and capable of great violence is in fact arguably more threatening than someone who is in-control because you do not know when he will lash out.
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Dec 20, 2015 02:10
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MisterBibs posted:These are not things that make someone threatening. These are things that directly take away from being threatening. These are things that generate pity and laughter. So do you really not get the idea that someone can be kind of sad and pathetic and yet also incredibly threatening? The two are not opposed. Also Kylo Ren literally captures Rey and could have killed her at that point and he beats Finn into a coma. He also rips the information directly from Poe's mind. Rey is the only one to stand up to him in the entire film at all and she only does that to an already injured Ren ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 02:41
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MisterBibs posted:Vader lifted a dude a foot off the ground, crushed a dude's throat, and flung him away like he was garbage. That's a good way of saying "This dude does not gently caress around". Having a lightsaber hissy fit, complete with nonplussed subordinates making it clear he does this a lot is not You are really dumb. Would you say Jame Gumb in Silence of the Lambs wasn't threatening?
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Dec 20, 2015 02:47
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kaworu posted:I know nothing about this movie, I still haven't had a chance to see it yet and won't until Monday night, and I feel like I have done a goddamn heroic job of avoiding spoilers. Not that I care that much about them, even. I was a Star Wars fan as a kid and I was just looking forward to maye having a fresh, unadulterated experience. It's a real spoiler.
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Dec 20, 2015 02:59
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turtlecrunch posted:What I found threatening was the close-ups of Chewie's fingers. Oh thank god I wasn't the only one distracted by how weird that looked.
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Dec 20, 2015 03:32
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Wandle Cax posted:I would be surprised if this trilogy directly references the prequels in any way. It already did.
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Dec 20, 2015 07:25
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"This weapon doesn't have any weaknesses except the giant glaring weakness presented onscreen but that doesn't count for some reason." Like seriously "it needs to literally destroy a sun and takes a long time to charge and if it isn't carefully controlled it literally blows itself up" is actually a weakness.
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Dec 20, 2015 21:14
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Lightspeed travel is never presented as very long. It's more akin to a bus ride than a plane trip. Aside from in ANH I don't even think we get any meaningfully long scenes with characters waiting for lightspeed travel to end.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:41
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net cafe scandal posted:. Did anyone clap or cheer when Starkiller blew up?. Yes. People went wild in the theater. The bulk of your complaints also can be applied to ANH (since this film is so close to it) so I'm not sure what you mean.
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Dec 21, 2015 02:11
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