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Isn't it more interesting to discuss movies outside of the question of whether they're good or bad? There's not an objective answer to that question, and even if there is its not really constructive pursuit. It's a dead end. The forum is Cinema Discusso, not Cinema Verdict
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Dec 25, 2015 05:03
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zoux posted:Carrie Fisher is a national treasure and I love her like a crazy aunt, but she really stuck out like a sore thumb in the movie imo. I know why she's so rough and she should totally be in the movies but I was like " goddamn, the ravages of time" whenever she was on screen. I think it works when you assume that Leia has lived a pretty tough life. She's lost everyone she's ever known on her home planet, she's been fighting an endless, futile war for her entire adult life, and her son is a war criminal who lives to tear down everything she's fought for.
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Dec 25, 2015 05:11
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:I'm not responding to you so much as zoux and Frackie Robinson and the bullshit I'm seeing on Facebook these days. Sorry to catch you in the crossfire. I meant more her voice and personality than how she looked, just the way the character has aged in general
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Dec 25, 2015 06:00
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Stumpus posted:I'm really surprised that for all the criticisms in the dozens of pages I've read in this thread, I have only seen one person comment on how utterly stupid the name "Snoke" is. Snoke=Snake=Serpent=Satan Exploit's man's insecurity and thirst for forbidden knowledge, yada yada, I get it but I agree it's kind of lame.
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Dec 26, 2015 21:39
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:frackie=smackie=junkie=homeless You don't think the evil deceiver character having a name that's one letter away from "Snake" is in any way significant?
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Dec 27, 2015 00:44
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What does "smoke" reveal about his character? That he's all smoke and mirrors? It had just never occurred to me, I thought "Snake" from the get go.
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Dec 27, 2015 00:59
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I think Maz looked fine. PT Yoda really looked fine too, the problem was that we'd met Yoda before and he looked like an entirely different character.
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Dec 27, 2015 20:07
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I think it's also important to remember that Rey's arc is far from over. I think it's safe to assume that there's going to be a price to pay for all this power she's found.
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Dec 28, 2015 16:59
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jivjov posted:I guess "it was Han's" is an old EU thing. Possibly from the novelization. It's a more reasonable assumption that it was something Obi Wan just found on the Falcon and improvised into a training exercise, but there is that scene with like 20 kids using them in AToC so I guess canonically it's like an official thing that Obi Wan brought along with him.
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Dec 29, 2015 02:16
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jivjov posted:Just because they were used in the temple doesn't mean Han couldn't have had something similar for blaster target practice. That works, Han Solo bought it in a garage sale on Coruscant. I'm declaring this cannon.
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Dec 29, 2015 02:29
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Wouldn't a famous smuggler make for a pretty poor smuggler?
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Dec 29, 2015 06:08
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Beeez posted:The only really Jesus-y thing about Anakin is something that tons of Messiah stories have anyway. But the reason one can safely say Anakin is corrupted by the Jedi is because he starts out as a kind kid who wants to help and then the Jedi are so bad at dealing with someone who hasn't been indoctrinated from birth, and act so mistrustful of him, that he decides the only way he can save his wife is if he joins the Sith. I mean, Yoda tells him to not even mourn her death, that may work fine for the average Joe Jedi, but it's really bad advice for someone who's struggling with attachment and feeling invalidated by the Jedi in general. The Jedi are Pharisees, and Vader cleanses the gently caress out of that temple.
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Jan 5, 2016 05:02
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This sheds a lot of light on Ren's crisis of faith If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. -
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Jan 5, 2016 05:10
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I still like the movie, but I still can't for the life of me understand why the Starkiller Base plotline needed to be in there. You could take it out completely and everything else could go essentially the same, and you'd have time to flesh out the search for Luke, why he's gone and why he's needed (which is the true thrust of the story anyway). That time would also be well spent explaining a little more about where Kylo Ren is coming from. What he does at the end is very sad, but only in concept and because of our prior attachment to the character he kills. It would have a lot more weight if we had a better idea of what's brought Ren to that point beyond "this is what I have to do to level up". I'm sure that more of that backstory is going to be revealed later, but creating a mystery for future installments isn't worth undercutting the story at hand to the extent that it does . That's TV logic at work.
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Jan 6, 2016 05:52
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For me, Joe moviegoer, I think the prequels are movies with a lot of interesting ideas that are short on engaging characters (possibly by design), while TFA is a movie with engaging characters that is short on interesting ideas (also possibly by design).
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Jan 6, 2016 17:08
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corn in the fridge posted:Is it possible to like all 7 star wars films and not have anything particularly negative to say about any of them?? Yes Jimmy, but stop stalling and go clean your room, I'm not going to ask you again.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:11
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Red posted:Can we post/share theories? Especially good ones? That's possible, but I disagree with the assertion that it matters or really changes how we look at the series as a whole if it's true. It would be a giant "okay cool, whatever." It would just be another tie to the OT for the sake of having another tie to the OT.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:28
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Neurolimal posted:I disagree. The death star was rushed, but it served as an interesting concept, and about as integral as the ANH death star or the TPM droid base. The Death Star dominates the plot of ANH from the first frame to the last. They story isn't about the Death Star, but the Death Star does set everything in motion. The Starkiller Base is gone within 70 minutes of us learning of its existance, and its the attack on it feels like an afterthought compared to the mission to rescue Rey and all that follows. One could make that criticism against Return of the Jedi as well, but pointing out that they're emulating the weakest element in a better movie isn't really a good excuse. General Dog fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 17:34
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Doronin posted:I was wondering the exact same thing, especially after my second viewing. I had a lot of similar thoughts on that, but it would be a real paradigm shift, for sure. Obi-Wan was loving Padme. Search your feelings, you know it's true.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:47
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Noam Chomsky posted:Star Wars: Trolls Trolling Trolls Trolling Trolls
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Jan 6, 2016 17:56
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Neurolimal posted:I agree, but I disagree that it is a glaring structural flaw. Like I said before, I think that Starkiller base, while unnecessary, is only a problem in that the runtime it takes up would have been better spent elsewhere. General Dog fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 18:05
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:What about "gain[ing] his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy"? The Starkiller base does show us what's become of the galaxy in his absence, but since we don't really know what's become of Luke or what he's been up to in the 30 years since we saw him last, we're not left with much understanding of how bringing him back is going to make things a lot better. I could certainly be sold on Luke still being the galaxy's only hope, but the movie doesn't do the necessary footwork to establish that. Maybe if we didn't take an hour long detour to blow up Death Star 3 they could have.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:12
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hemale in pain posted:We don't really need the movie to tell us that though cause we got 3 other movies telling us Luke is super cool and good at blowing poo poo up and murdering Sith. Yeah but by all appearances Luke is a loving loser now. He inadvertently rounded up a bunch of the galaxy's best and brightest force adepts into a big Darkside honeypot and got them murdered. He's a hobo living alone in cave out of shame. He should be ashamed. That's all we know about Luke here in 2016 (34 aby)
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Jan 6, 2016 18:17
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:It's interesting to note that the other occurrence of the phrase "restore peace and justice to the galaxy" in the Star Wars films is as part of Palpatine's response to Anakin's killing of the Separatist council. The use of it there is satirical (Palpatine himself embodies galactic conflict and injustice) and suggests that killing the bad guys is not enough, or perhaps is completely incorrect! Isn't "guardians of peace and justice" like the Jedi motto? Palps is laying a sick  on the Jedi, like always. Palpatine constantly dunking on the Jedi, the Senate, and everyone he encounters is one element of the prequels that everyone should be able to appreciate regardless of their feelings about them overall. Even RLM gives Palpatine his due. General Dog fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 18:22
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corn in the fridge posted:At least since they blew up a death star in this movie we shouldn't have to deal with another one in the next two movies, right?? Episode 8's superweapon will be privatized prisons.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:30
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mlmp08 posted:True. Which is why Han never got back in a freighter and eyeballed light-speed suborbital entry to a super weapon. Or why Vader near his fifties or so didn't personally fly a specia TIE fighter. Luke's value isn't as a solider who can blow up superweapons (as we see, the Resistance already has people who are up to that task). Luke's value is as the moral center of this universe, someone who can reestablish the Jedi (because someone apparently still thinks that's a good idea lol), and maybe fix things between Leia and her son. These are the blanks that I'm filling in anyway.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:34
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Raxivace posted:We'll probably get Death Starkiller II in Ep. IX, but like ironically or something since Trevorow directing it. *In Seinfeld voice* "Why don't they make the whole death star out of the black box material?"
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Jan 6, 2016 18:35
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greatn posted:Why didn't all the fighters just hyperspace through the shields? I mean, they have astromechs. The Falcon has an advanced enough navcomputer that it can do it, not all ships can do it for the same reason that they can't all make the Kessell run in under 12 parsecs. 
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Jan 6, 2016 18:43
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Lord Krangdar posted:I love how he's this master manipulator living a whole double life for decades but when it comes to ruining the Jedi he mostly does with the truth, or by turning their own beliefs against them. It's what he gets off on. Everyone, good or evil, loves to see a hypocrite exposed and brought low.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:54
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Red posted:Wait - important question: When Mace Windu deflected the force lightning from Palpatine back at him, he turned into a wrinkly old demon man. I always assumed the former, because we never saw the lightning have that effect on Luke or anyone else.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:00
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I just hope there are some credible bad guys (read: old white dudes) who are the real power behind these Neo Nazi shitheads we meet in TFA.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:12
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Soggy Cereal posted:The Starkiller was created to give a sense of urgency to the third act, because otherwise they'd actually find Luke. That would be a weird climax. Would you have old Luke dodging orbital bombardment or fighting all the Knights of Ren at once? While that would be really cool, it leaves nothing to do for Han, Finn, Rey, or Poe. It would be the movie equivalent of a video game escort mission, where the person you're protecting is either frustratingly incompetent or so invincible that you don't need to do anything. That battle would end the three movie trilogy right there. I agree with most of what you're saying about the reasoning for Starkiller, but when Han and Finn go to the Imperial base it's mostly about rescuing Rey anyway. The third act could unfold pretty much the same, just without cutting back to Poe and the other starfighters. Between Han's death and the lightsaber fight there would still be plenty of climax to go around. If anything it would be nice if those moments had a little more time to breathe. Would it be kind of an intimate, small stakes ending for a Star Wars movie? Yeah, but so was Empire Strikes Back. I don't think Luke needed to come in earlier than he did, I just think it should have mattered more when we finally go to him.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:21
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Why do the Death Star plans in RoTJ show the death star half-complete? Don't "plans" by definition usually show the finished product? It would be like going to the trouble of making a scale model of a three-quarters complete Freedom Tower.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:27
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Can wait til we meet his test tube daughter, Linda Palpatine. we already have, she goes by ReyWaffles Inc. posted:why is it trolling? people don't call han "solo", or leia "organa" You're not on first name basis with him. You wouldn't just walk up to Obama and call him Barry. He's emperor of the goddamn galaxy, show some respect.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:13
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Dexter Jettser was the best frycook in the galaxy, and a cunning manager. And a good friend.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:18
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Beeez posted:I saw no Death Stars in TFA, only a Star Deather. There's a big difference. Uhh hello, it's called the Sun Crusher.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:29
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NecroMonster posted:Well Lucas himself disallowed any portrayal of Jedi as evil or even morally gray within all EU materials for, last I checked, the whole time he was in possession of the Star Wars IP. He was also vocally critical of EU stories that attempted to introduce moral subtly or nuance into Star Wars. Hell he even re-edited his own film to, famously, remove a bit of nuance from the portrayal of a character that I'm sure I don't need to even say the name of for people to get this reference. Star Wars is pro-Jedi propaganda, it's told from their point of view. It will never allow us to view them objectively, but that doesn't mean that the characters themselves aren't nuanced. Star Wars is a story told by an unreliable narrator. We get a preamble before every movie just to make sure we know who the good guys are, lest there ever be any doubt. General Dog fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 02:47
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euphronius posted:Watching tpm again, it starts a little slow, but once they get to Tatooine it really is a good movie. The movie could not be more blatant about how hosed ho the Jedi are. At one point Qui Gon says greed can be a powerful ally. I always kind of thought Qui Gon was supposed to be the pragmatist in a room full of legalistic stooges. I mean the Jedi are all like, "this kid is too old and too powerful, this is highly irregular" and Qui Gon is like "it's better to have the buffalo in the teepee pissing out of it than to have the buffalo outside the teepee pissing into it." General Dog fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 03:21
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NecroMonster posted:I like how Qui-gon, who is a bit of an idiot and less than great person, is the first guy to "discover" force ghosts. He was denied entry into Force Heaven because of the time he cheated on that dice toss with Watto.
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Jan 7, 2016 03:42
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Lord Krangdar posted:I think its between two and three. The Jedi are not evil the same way Palpatine is, but he presented temptations for them and they gave in over and over. The Jedi are not Devils themselves, but they're listening to the Devil on their shoulders. He feeds Luke a line of bullshit about it being true "from a certain point of view" that Vader murdered Anakin. He doesn't even have the decency to explain his reasoning for with holding the truth like Yoda did ("not ready for the burden were you").
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Jan 7, 2016 05:44
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