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Dec 14, 2015 18:27
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Zoran posted:It's entirely possible to like the prequels and believe they are good movies without agreeing with one single thing that SMG posts. It's also entirely possible for people to believe in unicorns and a flat earth too you know.
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Dec 14, 2015 20:47
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LinkesAuge posted:But he didn't even "learn" that the Sith have the ability to save people from dying, he just heard a myth (are we supposed to think of Anakin as literal child who believes every story he is told?). Palpatine didn't offer him any powers, there was no proof that he could actually have such a power nor does he even know if the Sith still exist or who they are (up until that certain moment). Is this better?
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Dec 14, 2015 20:49
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Zoran posted:She says, "To be angry is to be human." She's rationalizing for him. I would't call Padme's trust of Palpatine a flaw. The whole point of his character is deceit, and he's drat good at it. People only figure out what his deal is when he wants people to actually know.
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Dec 14, 2015 20:52
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Zoran posted:Yeah, but the way Palpatine deceives people is by finding their flaws and exploiting them. Anakin laps up praise from a kindly old grandfather. The Jedi never suspect him because they don't think they could ever be outsmarted. Dooku mistakes his big role for actual importance. Padmé sees him as an experience ally fighting hard for her in the Senate, and she never rethinks that position. I'll give you Anakin, but the relationship between Palpatine and Padme is on the rocks by the time Revenge of the Sith rolls around though, being that even his alter ego is pretty pro war and pro power and Padme isn't. There's a deleted scene or two from the last one that shows that quite well. The Jedi definitely suspect something by the time of Revenge of the Sith too. That's why they want Anakin to spy on Palpatine when he gets appointed to the Jedi Council. They don't think he's THE sith lord, but by the end of Attack of the Clones, they even say they should keep a closer eye on the senate. And then Mace Windu has this line in RotS: Mace Windu posted:I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi. The dark side of the Force surrounds the Chancellor. Can you guys tell I watched the PT this past weekend for the first time in forever? Edit: Cnut the Great posted:
This is one of the few of your posts where I can't see the similarity. Like, at all. Fred Breakfast fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 21:42
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Zoran posted:Repeat after me: the Jedi are wrong. Their philosophy causes all sorts of problems in the prequels, and then Luke proves them wrong once and for all in the original trilogy. How? Luke doesn't exactly swing his dick around in the OT, and he succumbed to mistakes that both Obi-Wan and Yoda wisely warned him about. Besides, just because someone fails doesn't mean they're wrong, sometimes it means they didn't do enough. Basically the Jedi warn Anakin to avoid attachments and emotion because those could be used in his downfall. What happens? Anakin makes attachments and gets emotionally invested and that ends up being his downfall. How is the order wrong about that? quote:I just watched the TPM one. Personally, I think the number one red flag in prequel criticism is when someone says that Jar-Jar was "not important." Annoying? Sure! Some of the jokes involving him fell flat? Yep! But not important? Qui-Gon sees value in him when no one else (including the audience and also all the other characters) does. Eventually, it's Jar-Jar who shows Amidala that the solution to her problem was in front of her the whole time. Padmé didn't need to go to Coruscant and she didn't need to put Palpatine in power, but she did, just because her society was too racist to even consider asking the Gungans for help. Padmé's breakthrough is in overcoming her own prejudices, and it only happens because Qui-Gon kept Jar-Jar around. If Jar Jar's role in the movie was to tell a queen that she had an army, then he was a waste of celluloid. Jar Jar's role in that movie was to provide comic relief to the audience first and foremost, story be damned. This scene which literally has no bearing on the story whatsoever, proves it quote:Right. I was trying to elaborate on my earlier point—Padmé trusts people she shouldn't until well after it's too late to fix her mistake. By ROTS she no longer is on Palpatine's side, but he seems to have like a 94% approval rating. She can't build an effective opposition anymore. Yes it deteriorates, but that doesn't mean it was a blind relationship the whole time. Padme debates with Palpatine in TPM, and she's not too happy about the proposal regarding the Army of the Republic. Jus' Sayin'.
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Dec 14, 2015 22:13
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Let's all not gloss over the fact that Qui-Gon basically introduced the galaxy to Darth Vader and Jar-Jar Binks. Qui-Gon is the actual villain in the star wars universe.
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Dec 14, 2015 22:27
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Anyone with a gambling addiction know the over/under for the rotten tomatoes score? Or anyone wanna take a guess? I'm gonna say 93%.UFOTofuTacoCat posted:I had the same action figure. He was named "Hammerhead" but I've just learned that the name turned out to be a speciest??/racist term for Ithorians. So basically this is like someone packaging Finn and naming it "Negro Stormtrooper". Wonderful.
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Dec 15, 2015 18:39
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JazzFlight posted:For now, I think I'll stay cautiously optimistic because of Patton Oswalt tweeting that "JJ did it." Of course, he didn't say whether that means that JJ pulled off the impossible and made a successful sequel or if JJ screwed up, but I think it's the former. Well you could read his second tweet about it. Patton Oswalt posted:And without spoiling it, I can say that #StarWarsForceAwakens has the BEST final shot of any Star Wars film. Wow.
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Dec 15, 2015 18:42
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jivjov posted:Yeah, Lucas was always pissed that they had just slipped some off-the-shelf wolf man masks into that sequence, and they're covered by either cgi or different creatures as of the '97 special edition. He was replaced by a practical-costumed alien of all things.
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Dec 15, 2015 18:47
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SpaceParrot posted:Oh, thank god a nerdprecious celebrity likes this one, finally we can breathe easy Kevin Smith still isn't wrong though. It has great moments even though it's weighed down by the faults of the prequel trilogy.
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Dec 15, 2015 19:02
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kiimo posted:That shirt rip was so unnecessary. Also i remember there being a really hokey moment when Natalie Portman falls onto the sand out of a ship or something and then gets up and is like I'm okay and runs away for no apparent reason. Also the way she runs away is funny Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:She handles sand a bit better than Anakin does. If Anakin fell out, the sand would get all over and then he'd be compelled to make out with the clonetrooper that came to his side.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:31
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Deakul posted:Natalie Portman's war outfit in Episode 2 was the only good thing in that movie. It really is the slave leia costume of the prequel trilogy, isn't it?
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Dec 15, 2015 23:43
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I'm going through the reviews snip-its that rotten tomatoes is posting and this one caught my eye:quote:The Star Wars movie for people who don't like Star Wars. Pure, old-school pleasure.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:06
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Super 8 has tons of great moments. The opening scene alone is one of the more effective and memorable I've seen this decade. Not to mention Elle Fanning's fantastic performance and of course Kyle Chandler is awesome in general.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:15
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Frackie Robinson posted:I unironically wish Lindelof had written the new Star Wars I despise Lindenlof, but somehow him writing Star Wars kinda makes sense...
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Dec 16, 2015 17:33
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Jellymouth posted:Son of a bitch. He's totally this guy
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Dec 16, 2015 18:11
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I remember reading somewhere that TPM got better reviews when it first came out, so I decided to see actual reviews from then. This one from the hollywood reporter stopped me in my tracks. He wasn't 100% correct in what he was predicting, but man was he prescient. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/star-wars-phantom-menace-review-752675 Here's some quotes: quote:Star Wars: Episode I — The Phantom Menace seems designed more as a promotion for Lucasfilm's billion-dollar merchandising concerns than a meaningful chapter in the Star Wars canon. Hardcore fans are likely to be the most disappointed, but that won't stop them from lining up to see it again and again. While the film will do mega-blockbuster business — Lucas could perform the saga with shadow puppets and gross a few hundred million — it may not match its predecessors' long-term commercial appeal. quote:Less impressive are the human elements. Perhaps because Lucas' creation has been elevated to such pop-culture deification, Phantom Menace doesn't come close to the original trilogy's witty, self-consciously ironic tone. Instead, it vacillates between ponderous solemnity and a distressing tendency towards silly schtick. The original characters, not to mention the actors who played them, are sorely missed, with no one displaying the personality and flair of Luke, Han Solo or Princess Leia. quote:Lucas seems to have miscalculated placing so much emphasis on Lloyd, whose Anakin is a central figure; he even commandeers a fighter plane during the climactic space battle. Designed as an alter-ego for millions of children wishing to project themselves into the Star Wars universe, the character is unlikely to interest anyone much older than 13, and the child actor, though cute, isn't up to the task of carrying so much of the film. I know Jake Lloyd was miscast, but I never thought about him being this weird Mary Sue type for kids. Oddly enough, I was 13 when it came out and I didn't connect to him at all. quote:For all of its years in gestation, Lucas' screenplay seems oddly underdeveloped and lacks the earlier trilogy's strong plot line and genuine wit. Whereas the original characters engaged in often-amusing, self-reflective banter, most of the humor here is infantile, revolving around the antics of aliens who use phrases like "big doo doo" and aren't shy about expelling gas. Jar Jar Binks, more suitable for Toys R Us than the big screen, is particularly egregious and far more irritating than endearing. quote:Ultimately, it's hard to avoid feeling that Lucas has placed so much emphasis on outdoing himself technically that he lost sight of what made his original films so much fun. There will be those who respond enthusiastically to the stunning technical wizardry, but what has made Star Wars resonate so long in the public imagination is not its visual style — important as that is — but its ability to transport us to another dimension, to inform its imaginative, fantastic environments with rich humanism. It's not all negative though. quote:Lucas and his crew at Industrial Light & Magic have outdone themselves in production design and special effects. Nearly every shot contains a complicated computer-generated effect, supplemented by the usual model work. The film displays one dazzling visual after another, from what seem like hundreds of types of photorealistic creatures to a multitude of elaborate scenic designs. It's amazing that a review that came out a full week before the movie ends up reading like a blueprint for all prequel criticism. Yet it doesn't come off as all that negative. His tone is more "it misses the mark" than "this is a pile of flaming garbage." It's a very interesting read.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:51
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Zoran posted:What's so bad about Jake Lloyd's performance? To me his Anakin comes across and sweet and childlike but also assertive and a tiny bit rebellious, which seems like a perfectly good representation of 9-year-old Anakin. The problem is that Anakin isn't supposed to be yet another 9-year-old kid. He's the chosen one, and he's eventually gonna be Darth Vader. You need more gravitas in your character than that if he's gonna be a child of destiny, and that's true for any story, not just star wars. Plus they got the wrong kid: https://youtu.be/GZSnB7yGylc?t=3m6s
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Dec 16, 2015 20:07
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Bongo Bill posted:As always, the problem is wanting a different story to be told. It is significant that Darth Vader is only cool because of his James Earl Jones voice modulator. Yeah, heaven forbid the audience actually ask for a good story. Jesus Christ that is the dumbest loving argument.... EDIT: You know what? That's not even the drat point that was being made. Look at that video again. That kid was saying the exact same lines that Jake Lloyd yet still did more with the role. This isn't a fundamental change in the story in any way whatsoever; rather it's a better execution of it. Put that other kid in with the exact same lines and chances are you would've had a better movie. Fred Breakfast fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 20:25
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Bongo Bill posted:It's more productive to discuss the film that's in the projector than the film that's in your imagination. Okay: The film in the projector missed its target and failed to reach the heights of other movies in the saga, hence the low marks by critics. And with the behind the scenes of these movies being religiously documented, it opens up a window of speculation of what could have been. You know, a thing every human being ever has pondered about something. The movie I want vs the movie I saw isn't as different as you're suggesting. The biggest problem by far is execution.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:44
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Cnut the Great posted:The story is that a sweet little munchkin child becomes a sadistic supervillain. That other kid didn't come across as a scrappy, happy-go-lucky Tom Sawyer type; he practically had a thousand-yard stare. Let's be fair: Anakin was a slave without a father and had a proximity bomb in his head. Cnut the Great posted:Also he was putting the moves on Padme like some sort of prepubescent Casanova. Ha, that actually explains his actions in Attack of the Clones.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:47
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Bongo Bill posted:"Execution" is the free space in prequel criticism bingo, and the rest of this post still just means that you were told a different story than the one you were expecting. Head canon is the free space in prequel defense bingo, and the rest of this post just still means that you can't accept the fact that the movies aren't as good as you want them to be. See what I did here?
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Dec 16, 2015 21:02
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Grendels Dad posted:Attention everybody: When attempting to phrase your dislike of the Star Wars prequels, you must refrain from mentioning: Don't talk poo poo on Sheev, bruh.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:04
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Bongo Bill posted:I'm just saying that the word "execution" by itself is not a convincing argument or useful summary, despite how often it is used verbatim. Dude, I posted an example of where they missed the mark. Darko posted:The idea of starting with the "pure innocence" of a child is great. It assumes that it heightens empathy and connection and makes the audience struggle harder while watching someone grow up into the dictator of the galaxy. The prequels are completely full of good ideas like this. Totally. There are good movies in there waiting to be chiseled out, and that's what makes it more frustrating. The problem isn't that Anakin is 9 or that Yoda is present etc. The movie(s) just needed a good punch-up and a sounding board for Ol' George. Honestly, if god-emperor himself Lawrence Kasdan had a hand in writing the PT, I doubt they would be that much different, at least character and location wise.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:36
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starry skies above posted:Mad Max: Fury Road gave me complete and total satisfaction. Mad Max: Fury Road isn't like most movies.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:41
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Josh Lyman posted:Star Trek 09 got 95%. That's what usually happens when you make a visually beautiful, action-packed movie filled with actors who deliver good performances and have chemistry with each other.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:54
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:If you're calling the ending of Star Wars, the part where a farmboy has to fly down a trench of doom while pursued by a black-clad personification of death that ghosted his mentor and said farmboy is only saved at the last moment by a formerly-amoral smuggler who realized that friends really are worth more than money and helps save the day by setting up the farmboy to take a one-in-a-million shot using the power of his father's legacy and said power blows up a symbol of imperial fascism seconds before it was set to annihilate the nascent rebellion that had taken both of them in and was literally symbolized by a beautiful young princess dressed all in white as a "milquetoast story" you can gently caress right off Well, since you put it that way...
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Dec 16, 2015 23:14
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Zoran posted:AOTC is frustrating because, of its two main plot threads, the mystery is superbly done, while the romance has a string of okay scenes interrupted by one or two really bad ones. I wouldn't say the mystery is superbly done but it still gets your attention and is easily the better of the two for sure. And that's the thing, for all these people trying to reassemble the prequel trilogy into a brand new story, you really don't need to. It's like buying a new car when all you need to do is change the breakpads on your old one.
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Dec 16, 2015 23:30
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If I had to use one word to describe the movie, it would be FUN. I've never enjoyed seeing a new Star Wars as much as that one. I could've sat down and watched it again right then and there. SO much to talk about! The feeling I got wasn't just star wars either. I totally felt a Raiders of the Lost Ark vibe at the beginning, and there was even that kind of essence you would get from an old-school LucasArts game. Some random rear end in a top hat on the internet spoiled HOW Han Solo died when I was reading a tweet about the NFL game being played tonight, so as soon as it was revealed that Kylo Ren was the child of Han and Leia, I knew he was dead. Oh well. All the new main characters are great. Every single one of them. And for everyone laughing and not feeling threatened by Kylo Ren, he's totally not supposed to be the overwhelming evil presence that people say he is. Rey even says that much in the interrogation scene. There are greater forces at work that are more dangerous and sinister. I also love the feeling about how everything in the universe is something that is treated as normal and taken for granted. That really is the 2nd half of making a used universe work. I also had people in my group that though Starkiller Base was destroying the Republic senate and whatnot, and I totally didn't get that. I assumed it was just some populated planets that they were demonstrating on ala Alderaan. So what did they take from the EU? A descendant of Anakin Skywalker named Ben, a large planet like station that drew power from a star? There were some others but I can't think of them I also found myself not paying that much attention to the visual effects quality, or any lack of it. I was so engrossed by the characters that I didn't care to pay attention. The best reference in the movie to me was the lightsaber in the snow. It was IDENTICAL to how it was in Empire when Luke was in the wampa cave. The very first line of the crawl took care of some business big time by saying "Luke Skywalker has vanished." Also they managed to make him the central, most important figure in the movie and yet he had seconds of screentime and no lines. That's an impressive feat. One last thing, and that's a nitpick that I thought about on the drive home: How does the light from the starkiller base reach the other planet so quickly? It should be years before they're able to witness it, right? EDIT: One last thing that I loved: The way most things from the OT were introduced was stellar too. Instead of having this big operatic reveal, they just popped onto scene and they went on with their business. Falcon was literally a pan to the right, Han Solo just ran onto the scene, and C-3p0 just butted in right in front of Han's face. Once the nostalgia part wears off, those parts are gonna work so well because they don't make a huge production out of revealing them. Fred Breakfast fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 08:36
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Lampsacus posted:A list of prequel callbacks: Technically, Darth Vader's Helmet, Anakin's lightsaber used by Luke Also there was one moment that really reminded me of Knights of the Old Republic when Rey was at the bank of monitors on Han's giant freighter and she was messing with the controls to the doors. It made me wonder how many points she had assigned to computer skill
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Dec 21, 2015 06:19
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I fully expected Phasma to be the Boba Fett of this new movie and she didn't disappoint me in the least bit in that regard. They even threw her down a pit. Granted it was a garbage pit and not a sarlacc, but point stands.
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Dec 21, 2015 17:35
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| # ¿ May 2, 2024 05:53 |
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Cnut the Great posted:J.J. Abrams is a filmmaker with a lot of raw technical talent, but who doesn't seem capable of producing work with a whole lot of depth or originality. There's a reason he's carved out the specific niche in the industry that he has. I don't think that's a terribly unfair or controversial assessment of his talents. The similarities between Abrams, Spielberg, and Lucas are greater than people are realizing I think. There's a style of film that all three are known for pushing that is ultimately regressive in nature. And there's nothing wrong with that if they can pull it off well, which they have, multiple times. Of course there are exceptions, as Lucas has THX 1138, Spielberg's latter work which is fairly distinct from most of his work until about the turn of the century, and Abrams' association with works that he produced on both TV and film. There are two main differences though: the first is what kind of film style they regress towards. Lucas and Spielberg were heavily influenced by the swashbuckling matinee serial, and Abrams ironically gravitates towards the tone that Spielberg developed naturally through evolving as a filmmaker. The second is that of the three, Lucas is really the only one that has truly advanced the science and means of film making, and has had a far-greater influence on how a film is produced and even distributed. Even Spielberg can't touch him in that regard. As for the Abrams - Thomas Kinkade comparison? No. No, no, no, no NO. Thomas Kinkade was a piece of poo poo who made Norman Rockwell look like DaVinci and Michelangelo combined. Norman Rockwell had a great knack for subjects that captured the zeitgeist of America, and in several cases pushed genuine conversation about the state of affairs at that time. Thomas Kinkade just drew cabins in the woods. If there is anyone JJ Abrams should be compared to in terms of tone, it's probably Shepard Fairley.
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Mar 31, 2016 17:32
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