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Motto posted:Isn't that just being an empathetic person? I'd assume a Jedi's empathy would be much more stronger and more personal, like you know how Leia was when Han died, or how Obi-Wan felt when everyone on Alderaan died. Or how Yoda felt when Anakin was being a dipshit and killing people like a loving psycho. Something like that.
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Dec 21, 2015 05:57
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teagone posted:I'd assume a Jedi's empathy would be much more stronger and more personal, like you know how Leia was when Han died, or how Obi-Wan felt when everyone on Alderaan died. Or how Yoda felt when Anakin was being a dipshit and killing people like a loving psycho. Something like that. I think a different kind of "empathy" was implied. Jedi can sense feelings, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily better at caring about those feelings. It was, you may recall, a major contributing factor to the reason why Anakin wanted to murder them all, and to why this came as a surprise to them.
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Dec 21, 2015 06:03
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We'll use the Force! 
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Dec 21, 2015 06:07
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teagone posted:I could see Finn having a more passive/empathic connection with the Force, i.e., he doesn't wield the Force overtly like Rey or Ben (mind tricks, mind reading, telekinesis, etc.) but instead is more attuned to sensing the emotions of others, giving him an innate urgency to help those in need. Like, he can be good enough of a Jedi to wield a lightsaber, but he'll never be able to stop a blaster bolt mid flight. Like many of the other characters in the series?
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Dec 21, 2015 06:08
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computer parts posted:Probably, since a major (if understated) theme of the PT is how the Jedi are super dumb for using stuff like that. Exactly. The PT Jedis were beep-boop grognards who boiled down force ability to a number to the detriment of everything. Yoda's talk of the force as an energy field that binds folks and makes us luminous beings is the kind of stuff PT Yoda would've been embarrassed to be told he says in ~20 years. The PT Jedis had problems with a dude who, literally, cared too much and too intensely for their taste, and never bothered to think "Hey, maybe we should stop making this guy feel worse for, ya know, feeling". Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:We'll use the Force!  That's not how the Force works!Unrelated to anything, I think I've retroactively ascribed the notion that Chewbacca is nearly always whining to his growls. Like how R2D2 is just constantly complaining or griping, and occasionally apoplectic. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 06:10
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It just processed for me that Lucas didn't write, direct, or produce ESB. In retrospect, it's surprising anyone would have thought the prequels would be good.
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Dec 21, 2015 06:13
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teagone posted:I could see Finn having a more passive/empathic connection with the Force, i.e., he doesn't wield the Force overtly like Rey or Ben (mind tricks, mind reading, telekinesis, etc.) but instead is more attuned to sensing the emotions of others, giving him an innate urgency to help those in need. Like, he can be good enough of a Jedi to wield a lightsaber, but he'll never be able to stop a blaster bolt mid flight. He has the power to tell what other people are feeling. He is capable of empathy. This is his super power.
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Dec 21, 2015 06:14
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A list of prequel callbacks: -should have used clones" -????
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Dec 21, 2015 06:15
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Arglebargle III posted:Like many of the other characters in the series? Not many other characters can literally (physically) feel the emotions of others in this franchise other than Jedi. I'm merely suggesting Finn is on the level of like, say Leia, when it comes to attunement to the Force; not necessarily explicit, but the foundation is there. teagone fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 06:15
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Lampsacus posted:A list of prequel callbacks: The entire character of Kylo Ren.
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Dec 21, 2015 06:17
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jivjov posted:Soundtrack question and comment. I seriously just cannot stop listening to the Jedi Steps track. Its amazing. But anyway, toward the end of the non-credits portion (before it segues into The Force Theme), the track suddenly goes a bit...darker. A higher horn fanfare with a lower note under it repeated a couple time. I'm reminded of bits of the Episode III soundtrack, and I'm wondering just how ominous Luke is supposed to be here... The soundtrack is better than I thought. I really like "The Starkiller". It kind of reminds me of the Gayenne Adagio from 2001/Aliens. Don't forget that when we see Luke that he is looking at a grave. Things are not perfect here
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Dec 21, 2015 06:18
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Lampsacus posted:A list of prequel callbacks: Technically, Darth Vader's Helmet, Anakin's lightsaber used by Luke Also there was one moment that really reminded me of Knights of the Old Republic when Rey was at the bank of monitors on Han's giant freighter and she was messing with the controls to the doors. It made me wonder how many points she had assigned to computer skill
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Dec 21, 2015 06:19
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Lunatic Pathos posted:The entire character of Kylo Ren. He is the son of Han Solo and Leia that worships Darth Vader and betrayed Luke Skywalker, what does that have to do with the prequels?
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Dec 21, 2015 06:23
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Fred Breakfast posted:Technically, Darth Vader's Helmet, Anakin's lightsaber used by Luke I guess she should have read up on the Tower of Hanoi.
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Dec 21, 2015 06:26
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turtlecrunch posted:He is the son of Han Solo and Leia that worships Darth Vader and betrayed Luke Skywalker, what does that have to do with the prequels? He's a character whose existence seems to call out the prequels and basically is saying this is how you properly do an angst ridden Force wielding character that's under temptation/seduction of being turned and is at war with his identity. He also looks badass like Darth Maul but it turns out he's like Darth Maul but humanized, i.e., he's the anti-Darth Maul (because his unique lightsaber is not the defining element of his character), and he is the anti-PT era Anakin Skywalker essentially. teagone fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 06:28
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The prequel callbacks tend to be more abstract, like the continuation of Attack of the Clones' water motif, and the deletion by a Jedi of a portion of a map in order to hide something in the deleted area, and an Order led by an alien of unusual size that kidnaps and brainwashes children so that they will fight for Imperial ideals, and most of the details of Kylo Ren's backstory being implied by his attempts to imitate Anakin's.
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Dec 21, 2015 06:29
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turtlecrunch posted:He is the son of Han Solo and Leia that worships Darth Vader and betrayed Luke Skywalker, what does that have to do with the prequels? Come on now. He's so effective as a character because he is Anakin done "right." He's threatening (to everyone but MrBibs), yet petulant. Baby-faced, but out of control. He has an enormous amount of baggage, and is believable in all of it. Without knowing the backstory of the man he worships, you might think he is trying to be a badass and failing. Knowing who Anakin is lets you know that he is trying, succeeding, and surpassing his God.
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Dec 21, 2015 06:33
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GonSmithe posted:Come on now. He's so effective as a character because he is Anakin done "right." He's threatening (to everyone but MrBibs), yet petulant. Baby-faced, but out of control. He has an enormous amount of baggage, and is believable in all of it. Without knowing the backstory of the man he worships, you might think he is trying to be a badass and failing. Knowing who Anakin is lets you know that he is trying, succeeding, and surpassing his God. Knowing Anakin's backstory is how you know he is failing to copy him. He idolizes his grandfather but he doesn't understand him.
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Dec 21, 2015 06:35
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Kylo Ren worships Anakin Skywalker for his strength as Vader and seeks to emulate him; there's strong dramatic irony to this in that the audience knows that Ben is behaving exactly like Darth Vader. The character doesn't know how like his grandfather he really is. You literally can't know that without the prequel movies.Bongo Bill posted:Knowing Anakin's backstory is how you know he is failing to copy him. He idolizes his grandfather but he doesn't understand him. I would say he understands all too well; he just doesn't know it. But the audience does. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 06:37
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Arglebargle III posted:Kylo Ren worships Anakin skywalker for his strength as Vader and seeks to emulate him; there's strong dramatic irony to this in that the audience knows that Ben is behaving exactly like Darth Vader. The character doesn't know how like his grandfather he really is. You literally can't know that without the prequel movies. Yes you can because all that is explained in the OT. What does knowing what the prequels tell you add to Kylo Ren's character? that Anakin turned for some nonsense about thinking Padme would die and bringing her back being maybe possibly vaguely something the dark side could do, what's that got to do with Kylo Ren? Knowing Anakin was a whiny dick who killed some kids or whatever didn't really add much to this film for me.
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Dec 21, 2015 06:48
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GonSmithe posted:Come on now. He's so effective as a character because he is Anakin done "right." He's threatening (to everyone but MrBibs), yet petulant. Baby-faced, but out of control. He has an enormous amount of baggage, and is believable in all of it. Without knowing the backstory of the man he worships, you might think he is trying to be a badass and failing. Knowing who Anakin is lets you know that he is trying, succeeding, and surpassing his God. I guess the only comparison I see is Vader in the OT. Vader is brought back from the dark side by preventing the pain and death of someone he loves, his son Luke; Kylo Ren embraces the dark side by killing someone he loves, his dad Han. turtlecrunch fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 06:49
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I saw TFA again, and I really wish the film ended on the shot of Luke's face. The 360 pan just felt pointless to me.
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Dec 21, 2015 06:54
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Wandle Cax posted:Yes you can because all that is explained in the OT. What does knowing what the prequels tell you add to Kylo Ren's character? that Anakin turned for some nonsense about thinking Padme would die and bringing her back being maybe possibly vaguely something the dark side could do, what's that got to do with Kylo Ren? Knowing Anakin was a whiny dick who killed some kids or whatever didn't really add much to this film for me. What they're saying is that Kylo's whiny/angsty moments unintentionally (on his part, not the filmmakers') mirror Anakin more than he even knows. But that is only clear with the prequels in mind.
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Dec 21, 2015 06:56
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Wandle Cax posted:Yes you can because all that is explained in the OT. What does knowing what the prequels tell you I told you. He worries if he's strong enough to behave just like his idol Vader, but we know from the prequels that he is behaving like Vader with his petulant outbursts, insecurity etc. This is high school lit stuff.
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Dec 21, 2015 06:56
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hiddenriverninja posted:I saw TFA again, and I really wish the film ended on the shot of Luke's face. The 360 pan just felt pointless to me. The perspective on the pan also makes him look like a tiny person compared to Rey. There, now enjoy the ending REALLY being spoiled for you forever.
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Dec 21, 2015 06:57
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turtlecrunch posted:The perspective on the pan also makes him look like a tiny person compared to Rey. There, now enjoy the ending REALLY being spoiled for you forever. Now imagine Luke trying the old Crazy Hermit Yoda routine on her immediately afterward.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:01
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Bongo Bill posted:Now imagine Luke trying the old Crazy Hermit Yoda routine on her immediately afterward. One thing I always found strange was as a kid I really thought that was just a routine, like Yoda was just loving with Luke. I never imagined that was supposed to just be how he talked.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:02
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Lord Krangdar posted:One thing I always found strange was as a kid I really thought that was just a routine, like Yoda was just loving with Luke. I never imagined that was supposed to just be how he talked. It was both. He used unconventional grammar, but he was also loving with Luke to try to dissuade him.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:03
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Bongo Bill posted:It was both. He used unconventional grammar, but he was also loving with Luke to try to dissuade him. Yeah, I just always thought the weird grammar was just part of his act and not a lifelong affectation. Until the prequels, I mean.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:04
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This just in, George Lucas doesnt understand what made Star Wars good. Around the survivors a perimeter create.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:21
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Josh Lyman posted:It just processed for me that Lucas didn't write, direct, or produce ESB. In retrospect, it's surprising anyone would have thought the prequels would be good. Talk about a hot take. (Lucas wrote the story, co-wrote the screenplay, and executive produced ESB. His influence is undeniably present in every aspect of the final product.) MisterBibs posted:Exactly. The PT Jedis were beep-boop grognards who boiled down force ability to a number to the detriment of everything. Yoda's talk of the force as an energy field that binds folks and makes us luminous beings is the kind of stuff PT Yoda would've been embarrassed to be told he says in ~20 years. No. Midi-chlorians exist, and they're exactly what the Jedi say they are. Midi-chlorians are not the Force. The Force is an energy field. Midi-chlorians are microscopic organisms which act as mediators between the spiritual world and physical world. They're a metaphor for symbiosis. Force ability is clearly genetic, since it runs in families. Midi-chlorians explain why. They don't fundamentally alter anything that was established about the Force in the OT. They're merely an exploration of a different aspect of it. It's a clever metaphor based around endosymbiotic theory. It's not the end of the world. The Force is a fake movie religion. I'll bet a good number of the people up in arms about midi-chlorians here are probably atheist or agnostic, which makes the whole controversy even more absurd. Gutcruncher posted:This just in, George Lucas doesnt understand what made Star Wars good. Maybe he doesn't understand what made it good to you. That's not really his problem, though.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:25
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I know SW is supposed to be a fantasy movie that just so happens to be set in space but the plot holes or possible plot holes in this movie keep bugging me and I'm pretty sure the O.G. trilogy wasn't this bad about it. For unspecified political reasons, the Republic can't be seen as supporting la Resistance. :eyeroll: It's not like the First Order isn't going to come gunning for them next or anything. At least after the FO committed mass genocide on a star system there's no reason the Republic shouldn't have sent a massive fleet in at the ending battle. This sets up a fun dilemma for Ep 8. Either the Republic inexplicably isn't involved above the board after billions of their people got vaporized orrrrrrrrrr they are and suddenly this fragment of the Empire manages to step up their space fleet game x1000 out of nowhere because the good guys must always be outgunned.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:26
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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hiddenriverninja posted:I saw TFA again, and I really wish the film ended on the shot of Luke's face. The 360 pan just felt pointless to me.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:28
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You don't really need the PT to understand "angsty teen who idolizes the black sheep in his family, emulates him without understanding how much he's like him and how that's a bad thing". As for inevitable Lucas arguing: I feel like Lucas was a good director, and just fell prey to age dulling his skill and tolerance for active directing. There's no need to demonize or glamorise him, he just succumbed to the same thing that has harmed John Carpenter, Ridley Scott, and Rapeman Polanski.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:29
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:I'll agree with that, but it's not enough to make me dislike the whole ending. It's just a weird choice. The Half in the Bag review suggested a cool thing where the last shot should have had Luke slowly take the lightsaber from Rey using only the Force and then grab a hold of it, ignite it, then the film does the screenwipe on the shot Luke admiring the saber. That would have been so 
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Dec 21, 2015 07:38
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I prefer the idea that he is peeing.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:42
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Neurolimal posted:You don't really need the PT to understand "angsty teen who idolizes the black sheep in his family, emulates him without understanding how much he's like him and how that's a bad thing". You just wouldn't know how much the two are alike without the PT.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:42
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Wandle Cax posted:Yes you can because all that is explained in the OT. What does knowing what the prequels tell you add to Kylo Ren's character? He seems to handle sand just fine.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:43
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CelticPredator posted:I prefer the idea that he is peeing. Lmao, Mike playing humor bits like that super straight and going with it will never not be funny to me. I couldn't stop laughing for a little while.
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Dec 21, 2015 07:44
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Does anyone have the "leaks" PDF that i can compare the facts too? Also, has SMGposting started yet?
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