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Caros
May 14, 2008

Jacobin posted:

I could see this ending potentially badly but it won't rub everyone the wrong way as Ruby Ridge/Waco because of the lack of some ingredients mentioned above i.e. family and kids, religiosity and the private property last castle element.

Everyone remembers ruby ridge as feds showing up on some deep rural property and shooting a woman and son in cult member cloth clothing, following some kind of intrigue and mistakes by the government.

This on the face of it is more like a seize by surprise that could just as well get surprise gassed and shot up and remembered as a bunch of guys getting shot and meh

Even your pretty good summary of Ruby Ridge doesn't really qualify how hosed up it was.

The feds tried to flip a crazy end times fanatic into rolling on a bunch of white supremacists by arresting him for making sawed-off shotguns just under the legal limit (that they asked for). When he told them to go gently caress themselves they issued him a summons. They hosed up the date of the summons and he didn't show (he probably wouldn't have shown for the real one either). There was a lot of loving around on and near his property, but in the end rather than send police to his house to try and arrest him, they had an FBI special unit go onto his property as part of some scouting bullshit. There are conflicting stories but the most likely one is that the dog smelled the agents, the agents shot the dog then eventually his young son as well in the ensuing firefight

An officer got caught in the crossfire there, so the FBI/ATF/Alphabet Soup is officially raring to go. They surround his compound (shack) for several days and end up shooting and killing his wife and seriously wounding both Randall (the owner) and Kevin (A Family Friend). The sniper who shot these people did so under these rules of engagement:

quote:

If any adult male is observed with a weapon prior to the announcement, deadly force can and should be employed, if the shot can be taken without endangering any children.
If any adult in the compound is observed with a weapon after the surrender announcement is made, and is not attempting to surrender, deadly force can and should be employed to neutralize the individual.
If compromised by any animal, particularly the dogs, that animal should be eliminated.
Any subjects other than Randall Weaver, Vicki Weaver, Kevin Harris, presenting threats of death or grievous bodily harm, the FBI rules of deadly force are in effect. Deadly force can be utilized to prevent the death or grievous bodily injury to oneself or that of another

That right there is loving crazy. The first rule is basically "If an adult male is on the property and armed, shoot him" the last rule is worded more or less specifically to allow them to shoot the children if they need to.

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