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I think this is the first time where my gut reaction was seriously just "Give them what they want, death by cop/fed". And I want to feel awful but really do not.
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Jan 3, 2016 11:03
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It would seem like the logical approach would be long range artillery bombardment with tear gas canisters. This would be nice, also shutting off all power and water to the building and encircling them so they can't get any supplies in or out.
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Jan 3, 2016 16:15
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Dr. Tough posted:lol they're not going to shoot each other either. Maybe you guys should go to the book barn or some place to write your fanfiction Hm, yes. Yes...
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Jan 3, 2016 18:25
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Luigi Thirty posted:they're white Yep. Nothing is going to happen (again) because the feds apparently cannot charge white gun fetishists with crimes.
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Jan 3, 2016 19:19
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SedanChair posted:They won't do anything about it but post angry video updates though. The shittiest, most ineffectual ISIS
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Jan 3, 2016 21:00
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wiffle ball bat posted:Ideological opponents of the Occupy movement and the hashtag Black Lives Matter movement would often use instances of rape, arson, assault and vandalism to characterize the entire group as a whole as "thugs" and "criminals" a point of view I personally disagree with.This is a common practice, to attempt to use the actions of a non-representational few to discredit the movement as a whole. It's disingenuous and intellectually lazy, in my opinion, to argue the character of the protesters rather than the ideas they're risking life and limb to support. This is true, I had completely forgotten about their courageous stance on issues such as "gently caress Obama", "I don't want to pay taxes" and "My friends should be able to steal whatever land they want". Truly, heroes of our time.
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Jan 3, 2016 22:41
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wiffle ball bat posted:They're actually protesting two ranchers being charged with terrorism for killing a couple of deer out of season and doing a controlled burn on federal land. Illegal, yes. Terrorism? Not in my very humble opinion. Twice starting fires (one that could've resulted in people dying) on federal land, once during a burn ban, illegal poaching, and sending numerous death threats to land managers. Truly, they have been hard done.
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Jan 3, 2016 22:46
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wiffle ball bat posted:I don't see the value in discounting their grievances when in this particular instance an injustice was most assuredly dealt to the Hammons. No
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Jan 3, 2016 22:56
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wiffle ball bat posted:I agree with the judge who sentenced them to 1 year and in my opinion the Hammonds have served their time and repaid their debt to society. In a world where you can be sentenced to much more than that for simple drug possession charges, no, they didn't.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:16
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wiffle ball bat posted:Now I don't mean to get too "meta" here but it would appear to me that lusting for the violent death of peaceful protesters runs counter to the spirit a healthy debate and discussion forum would need to cultivate to thrive and promote a healthful exchange of ideas on various controversial topics. Waving guns around, declaring that you came to "die", and threatening the use of force against anyone who challenges you is not peaceful, hth.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:20
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wiffle ball bat posted:You're wrong, please look it up and become more informed on the topic No, provide a source.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:23
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wiffle ball bat posted:It's the crux of the entire issue, discussed in every single news story on the topic. You cannot avoid a source on it and also read about it at the same time. http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-protest/index.html quote:Williams also disputed the notion that the Hammonds were prosecuted as terrorists, as Bundy suggested. gently caress you.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:27
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:So what you're saying is, CNN is a more credible source about a ruling by a federal court than the department of justice. Better yet, even CNN (according to the article I pulled up) doesn't seem to believe that it was actually on terrorism charges! e;fb
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Jan 3, 2016 23:29
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wiffle ball bat posted:http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/12/ranchers_fight_with_feds_spark.html Hm yes, because obviously an U.S. Attorney General has no idea what he's talking about!
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Jan 3, 2016 23:32
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Hey guys, it turns out that the Religious Freedom Restoration Act is really just about restoring religious freedom and not allowing discrimination against gays! As we all know you can only name an act after exactly what is in it!
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Jan 3, 2016 23:43
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SedanChair posted:Obama should personally retake the compound using only his presidential convoy and the SUV with a minigun in it. 
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Jan 4, 2016 01:12
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Man Whore posted:Actually Oregon has open-carry so unless they start using those guns, yes it is. I forget, did they take over public land and then threaten to kill anyone who attempted to remove them?
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Jan 4, 2016 01:16
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Man Whore posted:So I apologize if it was posted but I'm not going to read page after page of goons lusting for redneck blood, but where is the statement saying that they will shoot anyone who tries to arrest them? Like I think III%ers are laughable at best and human scum at worst but frankly the people calling for no mercy ruby ridge re-does are kind of disturbing. quote:Noting that the group isn’t holding hostages, Ryan Bundy, who is also involved in the siege, echoed his brother, telling the Oregonian that the group doesn’t want to resort to violence but will not rule it out if authorities attempt to remove the occupiers from the property. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/01/03/armed-militia-bundy-brothers-take-over-federal-building-in-rural-oregon/ With others saying they expect to die, and I don't think they mean committing ritual suicide.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:44
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ToastyPotato posted:Meh. It's less disturbing in the context of what these militias actually believe. Arming themselves and taking over property that does not belong to them is just the straw that is breaking the camel's back for a lot of people. Especially given the treatment of other groups who have done far less and have fought far more nobler causes. So yeah, in the context of history and current events, you will easily find a lot of people who will not shed a tear should these people find themselves the targets of a violent response. Is it what Jesus would do? Probably not, but most people wouldn't consider themselves saints anyway. I've said it already, but yeah. I don't actually want them to die, but after seeing these assholes get away with this poo poo constantly while children die for the crime of being not-white, it starts to wear on your nerves and the first thought that comes to mind is "I wish these idiots would get exactly what they're seeking". Constant disillusionment with the state of the justice system, I guess.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:52
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Aspergeoisie posted:But, as it stands right now, these armed protesters are the ones standing at having "done far less." I think you, and many others, are stuck on the latter half of your statement. In believing the Oregon protesters' cause ignoble—and it surely is—you convinced yourself that taking over a loving shack in the middle of nowhere is worse than the massive destruction of urban and suburban property wrought by the left's myriad protest movements in the last decade alone. They've essentially shut down an entire Wildlife Refuge, are planning on vandalizing and destroying the land, and are threatening violence against anyone who tries to remove them. And they haven't had police beat, arrest, and otherwise harrass them like all of those leftist movements or, you know, a string of loving murder by cop that set most of them off.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:19
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Dapper_Swindler posted:why does MLK look vaguely Asian?  Apparently MLK is just a vaguely Asian looking dude.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:25
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:In their minds they are standing up for a brighter future and also arent currently damaging innocent peoples stuff. What you just said is complete garbage. If they are serious about their demands, theft is a form of damage.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:41
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:The fact of the matter is, is that while most people would say the riot destroy poo poo protests are bad, they are happening. Not every leftist is destroying innocent peoples property and businesses, not everyone on the right is sitting in a nature reserve with their rifles. If you look at the recent uni protests were leftists are assaulting journalists and fake vandalising pictures of black people combined with bullshit lies about KKK hunting blacks on campus, then compare it to this protest where they have managed to get a fucktonne of media attention without any bullshit at all, without destroying property, and without interrupting innocent peoples lives, you have to be actually mentally broken to say this is not a far better form of protest. Regardless of your views on what they are on about. Yes, not interrupting innocent people's lives at all! Except, you know, the employees who work at the Refuge, the people who use the Refuge for recreational purposes, and the fact that they are specifically doing this not as a form of protest but to literally seize public land and turn it over to their buddies and/or personally profit from its use. You know, aside from all of that this armed robbery of public land is entirely victimless! You have to be an idiot to compare riots that A) encompass a small subsection of ongoing protests B) happen as a reaction to real oppression, emphasis on real and C) tend to be heat of the moment and a result of tensions boiling over as a result of heavy-handed police tactics to a bunch of wingnuts deciding they're just going to steal land from the public and then threaten anyone who attempts to remove them with violent reprisal. But otherwise, these are definitely 1:1 situations and appropriate to directly compare. I very much do enjoy the fact that you think "no bullshit" is waving guns around and threatening violence in defense of the defilement and destruction of public land, though. Aves Maria! fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 08:37
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Alter Ego posted:...and yet these guys aren't getting tear-gassed/tazed and arrested. Why is that, do you think? Well, for one they're white and 2) lol at the idea that Occupy, Students, or the BLM have taken over public land in the express pursuit of occupying it permanently and backed this up with weapons and threats.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:25
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Alter Ego posted:...that was kind of my point. I figured. I more just wanted to reiterate how ridiculous the direct comparisons between this (which is, as Joe said, sedition) and people peacefully protesting. TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:I mean come on people, if Occupy happened in the middle of loving nowhere nobody would have given a poo poo about it either. The persecution complex and crab bucket mentality here would make a tea partier blush. Almost no one here is seriously advocating that they be killed and the two protests are only similar on the most superficial of levels. Has this forum become CNN? "All sides must be equal!" Aves Maria! fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 20:28
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:Ah yes, if Bundy and co took over wall street they totally would have been treated with kid gloves because ~reasons~. Is that really your argument? Yes, the same reason that the Bundy crew did not face any sort of serious reprisal for threatening to kill and pointing weapons at federal agents before! It must just be location.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:32
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ansel autisms posted:Yes, because they feel entitled to the land they're occupying solely because they happen to live in a rural area and most of us don't. If only those libtard city slickers could understand. The best bit being that none of them had probably ever been to the NWR before, and they have less connection to the land than the average city resident in Oregon.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:55
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Al! posted:Connection to the land? Hell if they had even gone camping a little bit anywhere, they'd know to at least be prepared for cold nights. Just because you(r illegal immigrant ranch hands) work the land, doesn't mean you have any respect or love for it. Of course. I'm sure that most of us goons that enjoy the outdoors have much greater appreciation for the places these militia idiots say were "stolen" from them than they do, regardless of where we live.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:03
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Nessus posted:You probably appreciate it for its like, life and beauty and poo poo. These guys just want a chunk of terrain they can claim mineral and water rights from. The sad bit is that evil environmentalists and scientists are incredibly willing to work with ranchers if they're not huge assholes, e.g. this ranch in Utah by Canyonlands. The reason these people find that everyone treats them like poo poo is because they're assholes who think that the land is theirs and theirs only.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:21
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Xandu posted:Local federal law enforcement, surely? If he ends up turning over a NWR to a dozen or so hicks with guns because he cannot muster the will to deal with it, he's essentially saying that all federal lands out West are fair game for these people. I was promised "I don't give a gently caress" Obama for 2016, not this poo poo
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Jan 4, 2016 21:37
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Salt Fish posted:You shouldn't care about this remote building that probably nobody uses and there is no point is exerting control for the sake of it. Your argument is basically "rules are rules" but actually its better to engage your brain about whats best instead of blindly insisting on upholding some stupid law and getting a bunch of people killed. This describes pretty much every non-major wildlife refuge, national park, national grassland, national forest, state park, etc. in the country. Should we cede all of this land to insane militiamen to be destroyed because "welp, it's in the middle of nowhere!" You may not, but people actually use and enjoy this land.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:48
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Al! posted:Thankfully, there aren't enough of them to do so by any stretch of the imagination, these guys are the fringe of the fringe. The point is that it is a horrible precedent to set, and legitimizes their efforts to take over public recreational and reserve land for the benefit of wealthy landowners and resource extraction companies. Maybe they can be waited out, but they have specifically stated they have no intention of leaving in the long-term.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:53
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Main Paineframe posted:A better question is "how many federal agents should lay down their lives to evict these people from this land by force, as opposed for waiting for them to run out of vacation days and go home so that the land can be seized back without any harm to federal employees"? An armed standoff should always be a last resort, not the first one. Essentially the question the other poster asked. How long do we let them stay before it is taken seriously?
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Jan 4, 2016 23:07
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Flavahbeast posted:I think ignoring them until this leaves the news cycle will work fine, it's gotta get pretty boring there Afaik, yes. The hope is that they'll just get bored and leave, but assuming that doesn't happen the "ignore them" strategy is going to fall flat on its face.
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Jan 4, 2016 23:10
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I didn't realize that George Soros had been upgraded to "Conqueror of Europe" from his run-of-the-mill shadowy, nefarious deeds.
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Jan 4, 2016 23:54
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:There's one guy commenting on a page amongst a lot more people and then there's another guy singling him out and encouraging raiding of his profile. Stop being a big baby and go post somewhere else if you think DnD is a liberal hivemind.
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Jan 5, 2016 03:12
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Let us start our own left-wing militia, friends. We'll take over shopping malls and start converting them to wetlands
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Jan 5, 2016 07:49
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Peztopiary posted:NSFW story on Daily Beast about the Grandson who testified to the grand jury. Link was in the GBS thread. Yep, these poor ranchers really were hard done by the law!
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Jan 5, 2016 17:59
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Jewel Repetition posted:So one thing I haven't heard an explanation for, why does the U.S. gov own so much land in western states? And why are they seeking more? The BLM especially does not want more land. They have a hard enough time managing the patchwork piles of dirt and shrub they already control. Most of their land is really low quality and I'm sure they'd rather get rid of it.
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Jan 5, 2016 19:56
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Jewel Repetition posted:But why are they buying even more? Is it just about wildlife conservation? The agencies you generally see "wanting" to expand are the Parks service and FWS, because they're trying to conserve beautiful landscapes or critical habitat, so yes. No one wants more shrub desert.
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Jan 5, 2016 20:00
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