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Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

This is going to end like a Day by Day (god rest its soul) plot: with a wet fart and a desperate bid to change the subject

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Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

quote:

We are establishing a commercial lien for damages of $100 billion United States Dollars (USD) defined as one ounce of fine silver for the loss of any one Oregon State Citizen murdered by any federal corporation employee, mercenary, subcontractor, agent or ally, with an additional $100 billion (USD) to be paid directly as compensation to their families.

That's an expensive ounce of silver!

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

DeathSandwich posted:

The Feds are in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation:

Letting the militia run roughshod in an occupied federal building emboldens anyone watching thinking they should also do it to try and prove whatever (insane, unstable) point they want to make. This also brings media attention to the militias and while vast swaths of America would think of them as a punchline to a bad joke the sort of crazies that are attracted to it in the first place see it as inspirational.

On the other hand, the harder you crack down on these chucklefucks, the more it will galvanize them and the harder they will dig in like the ticks they are. While I have no doubt that federal agents can absolutely come in force and disperse/arrest/kill the lot of them in pretty quick succession if they so chose, doing so means putting your own men in the line of danger. There's also the very real thought that if it came to shots fired the militias will paint this as Waco 2, galvanize the whole lot of them and then pretty much all federal employees (even non-law enforcing ones) get put on some sort of hillbilly hitlist, basically forming Al'Queda America for real.

Really, I think the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. They really should be blocking traffic going into and coming out of the reserve if only to keep resuppliers and sympathizers from joining.

They're already complaining that the people on Facebook who showed up didn't show up, which message is likely to drive off all but the hardest of the hardcore: "Hey show up! you'll get hot meals and hot showers and, after a bit, get to go home scot free!" or "We sat in the cold with no food and no water and no lights and huddled for warmth until we surrendered and got tossed in jail"?

At this rate, by next week, Obama will personally hand over the keys to the White House and turn himself in for execution because NEXT time they might be REALLY serious!!

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
"Oh man I can't wait until the hammer comes down on these guys! Boy howdy are they facing SERIOUS prison time and fines!!"

*four days later*

"Oh man I hope that guy eventually reads these forums and sees how we made fun of his cowboy hat!!"

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

DeathSandwich posted:

They aren't on municipal water lines. Their water is fed by a private well (which, in case of a burst you turn the pump off) and their sewer is a septic tank. You can't sabotage either without being on the premises.

They can't shut the power off on the compound because there are other homesteads in the area they would be shutting off as well. You'd be punishing everyone on that power line who isn't a militia chucklefuck.

I call bullshit on this here. Are you telling me there is no powerlines running from the road? Is this the only place in existence where the power is daisy chained like loving Christmas lights from house to house and then just ends at the last local farm in the chain instead of off shooting from a string of power lines? Not from the neighbors. How does this thing even work?

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

highme posted:

From what I can see, it's a legit claim.

I work in the GIS department of a major electric utility, specifically mapping the distribution network. I have worked on a couple of massive data clean up projects where we end up relying on Street view & aerial imagery to verify facilities in the field. Since we serve a huge portion of the middle of nowhere Western US, the imagery available to us for these areas isn't very high quality. As a result I have become really good at identifying equipment on poles, and how power is delivered from grainy rear end photos.

When the claim was made that they couldn't shut off power to the Visitor's Center without affecting other customers I was leery. Without looking, I assumed they were on a single phase tap line. Those lines are usually protected by a fuse at the tap, so to kill power you'd just open the fuse. I decided to see if Google had driven those roads or not, they did, in 2009. So the data is 6 years old and the photos are not great. From what I can see they get service from transformer on a 3 phase trunk line. This means that there is no easy way to cut service that does not affect other customers. And since this is a small, rural coop utility with little growth in the area, I don't expect much has changed in 6 years.
Legit interesting thing in a sea of poo poo posts.

Popular Thug Drink posted:

no, it neatly solves the problem of "i want my ideological opponents to be punished on television, giving me spiritual catharsis"
We're humans, we'll entertain fantasies

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
So, to recap the thread:
*All too human revenge fantasies*
*more liberal than thou humblebragging*
"We should starve them out"
"No! That's what they WANT us to do! "
"We should get them out"
"No! That's start they WANT us to do!"
*snack meme*
"If they were black they'd be dead long ago"
*snack meme*
Repeat repeat repeat

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Ninkobei posted:

God I hope the police grow some balls and _at least_ stop this from arriving. Pull over 1 truck and do not-insignificant harm to their cause. come on now...

Threatening the Sheriff's parents didn't make him think to escalate his tactics above "Polite discourse and behind the back big talk" why do you think he'd suddenly think to do that now? He'll watch the shipment of supplies be delivered, shake the driver's hands on their way out and, the next day, tell the auditorium full of residence that he is TOTALLY gonna go get his bo staff next! Send a message loud and clear! to thunderous applause.

I can't wait until next week when the Sheriff orders all government employees to line up single file "in front of the big ditch behind the main building" because the protestors asked them to do so nicely.

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

As a Millennial I posted:

wow. what a concept


Cool, when they break out the noose to hang the sheriff for treason, there'll finally be an excuse to move in.

"I know my family and friends will miss me but, at the end of the day, we need to respect these protestor's wishes."

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

VitalSigns posted:

I'm starting to think the Bundys are right and the fedgov is a powerless corporation that can't touch a US State Citizen without his consent to joinder, if all it can do in response to intimidation and death threats against officials enforcing the sentencing of convicted arsonists is break out the Doge memes.

Such mooching. Wow.

Holy crap! This never even occurred to me until you said it but you might be on to something! FINALLY the SOVCIV have stumbled onto just the exact right Liberty Spell to cast off the AmericanTM Corporate chains!! It's the ONLY explanation! Every time the FBI runs up to arrest them Almond Bundy stands bravely with his Freedom Staff, strikes the Earth three times and intones "Unlicenced security forces of the United States Corporation I do NOT give rejoinder and will NOT enter into contract with you! You have one second to quit my sight or a fine of a billion dollars (one ounce of silver) a second will be levied on you!!" and POOF they disappear in a puff of freedom dust! Then the LAMEstream media edits that part out!

This all makes so much sense now!

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
I mean...what's to stop a group like this from just taking my house and declaring it theirs (besides the smell)?



Hey, apparently Grand Wizard Bundy found the correct spell.

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Mormon Star Wars posted:

I love that the thread of Waco is enough to not only demand that the place not be sieged (which is perfectly reasonable, don't get me wrong) but is now enough to also demand that nothing else be done even after the fact. Oh, a guy left and we could arrest him? That would be another Waco! Tell Fedex not to deliver? That'd be Waco! Maybe stop people from slashing locals tires? Waco.

Guys, if we don't let the Bundy's have the land and distribute it as they see fit, then ignore everything they have done and fail to ever prosecute them for it, there might be a Waco.

They ignored Bundy's ranch and two of them escalated by killing two cops and an idiot. If they just ignore them this time it might be another Waco

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Captain Bravo posted:

Someone needs to send him a link to this.

Uh, I don't recall ever agreeing to be bound whenceupon thusly thosefully laws. As a Free Man of the Land I invoke thusly my lawfully rightning born natural ways to enjoin my strawman identity and Corporate ID number thusly towards that law. Thusly it can not, on these naval lands under maritimes law, apply to the entity of me.

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Al! posted:

Oh awesome you potentially made some kids sick. Cool goon justice you guys.

Now you can't PROVE it was a goon that did it, it just happened to happen in an area of intense goon activity.

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Maybe don't bring your children to an armed insurrection :shrug:

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Jippa posted:

What sort of name is cliven? Do his friends call him clive?

"Ammond"

I don't get it either.

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Internet Webguy posted:

First of all, Ammon Bundy is Cliven Bundy's son. They are two different people.
Who uh...who said otherwise?

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Oh bullshit. The only reason to carry a gun is to imply you'll use it. There's a legal distinction between committing a crime and committing a crime while carrying a gun, even if you don't threaten to use it, even if you don't have one but claim to.

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Grem posted:

There's also a legal distinction between committing a crime and committing a crime while wearing body armor! That really doesn't have anything to do with anything sorry.

And, in Connecticut, it's illegal to ride your bike over 65mph!

The point is they made it extra illegal to brandish a gun during a crime because of the implied threat of escalation, the fact that guns inherently make a situation more dangerous. To prove that all you need to look at is how many toddlers killed someone last year, and how many toddlers killed someone with a gun. Or...well, any incident involving a gun. How many people are killed at gun expos vs how many are killed at craft fairs.

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
I've had a poo poo year so far, seriously poo poo and this pisses me off so bad. These guys have life so loving easy they can do this. The entire history of the United States has lead up to this point: chickenshit bullshit manbabies acting out their need for a struggle, their need to be "warriors" without, you know, actually being in danger. If the US never had all the bullshit they are currently trying to get torn down they never would have been comfortable enough to try to tear it down in the first place. It's like trying to get the government to stop giving out vaccines because a disease hasn't killed a bunch of people in years (oddly enough since they started the vaccines). I wish I could go camping for a few weeks on the government's dime.

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Main Paineframe posted:

The Hutaree investigation, which was an investigation of a centrally-organized militia group which was infiltrated by an undercover agent, took two years and change. It's only been, what, a year and a half since the Bundy Ranch standoff? And I'm not sure why you'd expect an investigation of a decentralized, unorganized, spontaneous one-time group to take less time, especially in the post-Hutaree legal universe where far more evidence is needed to convict a militia group on anything meaningful. Modern federal law enforcement, as a general rule of thumb, prefers to take it slow and thorough and not jump the gun - someone might run around unpunished for a few years, but the federal government always wins in the end.

They don't even have a photograph of a guy who drive a stolen vehicle 30 miles. Not to mention, yet again, the last Bundy stand off resulted in the shooting death of two police officers by members looking to escalate. After 9/11 is the process for an airplane hijacking still "give them what they want and don't resist"?
The local sheriff has already said he agrees with their views, and right wing militias are too hot a potato for anyone to risk their political lives doing anything at any time. There is no secret plan, the entire plan is "hope it goes away".

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
If they wait long enough God will do the punishing for them! Those sins are REALLY piling up! No planet for you!

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

As a Millennial I posted:

This guy's feed has the most detail, but none of it will surprise you if you've been paying attention. Ammond kindly let the FBI know that the locals love him and he won't be leaving his peaceful protest until the Hammonds are free and the federal lands are returned to We The People. And if anybody gets violent, it's the FBI's fault.

Oh man how pissed are the Native Americans going to be when the only treaty the us government ever keeps for this land is with a bunch of white fascists?

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Jarmak posted:

The idea that FBI coordinated information between local police when in dealing with a national organization, conducted surveillance for terrorism against a group involved in national level unrest, and warned banks when they had information that they were going to be targeted by said group is not ignored by that narrative at all. Sounds pretty much exactly like the proper job of the FBI.


First, see if you can figure out the difference between upwards of 500 people occupying city hall plaza in a major city, and 15 people occupying a cabin in the middle of nowhere. The second occupy Oakland was much larger then that and was only dismantled after there was a murder.

Second, at this point this is only going on about 5 days longer then the first occupy Oakland and about the same length as the second, so I don't really see your point.

*pepper spray cop.jpg*

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

As a Millennial I posted:

My understanding was that the hospital was indeed preparing for casualties at the FBI's direction, and that there'd been an official statement pointing out that this was SOP for this kind of situation, not some kind of scary threat/escalation like Santilli was screaming about. Now I can't find any such statement, though, so who loving knows.

Maybe he was making a loving joke by subverting the expectations and having the space used for the militia? Hash tag basicjokecraft

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

As a Millennial I posted:

Speaking of Santilli, remember the guy on his stream from Tuesday who said "I'm documenting the arrest of Pete Santilli"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8KeeIW5eMM

:gizz:

All the best documentaries have the camera man screaming "I'M DOCUMENTING THIS!" over all the audio

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

No Butt Stuff posted:

Well, from my conservative (insane) acquaintances, I'm learning that it's unfair that Cliven Bundy was arrested for owing under a million dollars to the government, but Al Sharpton is allowed to walk free despite owing $4.5M.


Yes, Bundy was arrested over the money, that's definitely the issue.
Al Sharpton, who claims to not owe anywhere close to that amount, is, according to him and the IRS, making payments on the money that is owed.

So does anyone think that the black occupiers are going to get harsher sentences than the white ones?

Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
So was the bridge sniper charged to?

The best result of all would be to start the trial, read all the charges and possible sentencing and, just as the judge's voice fades, have Obama enter the court room and offer to pardon them all if they'd just take his hand.

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Duke Igthorn
Oct 11, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Jesus Christ the car analogy isn't a perfect analogy, it's just an example of something being well regulated and safer than it could be without the inevitable "OMG FEMA STORMTROOPERS EATING OUR BABIES!!!" that well regulating guns would, apparently, bring.

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