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What's the thinking behind leaving their power and comms on this long? I assume you can't easily jam their cells, but wtf. I mean what's the upside to letting them do all these RWM radio interviews and poo poo? And why does the NYT run stories referring to men with guns making demands of the govt and still call them protestors? Is there some style rule that gets invoked if the men with guns only concern troll about how they really really hope no one makes them shoot people and start the revolution.
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Jan 12, 2016 21:47
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Seems a safety issue to me. If its not safe enough to send your federal employees back in why is it safe for some random joe? I'm all about putting our cops on a shorter leash and I fought back against the "burn them all!" bullshit when it started but this is ridiculous. They haven't even shut off their power and they're beaming out inspiration for every other yahoo with a gun and a grievance via interviews and facebook posts. Like ok we're not going to Waco this thing, can we at least speed them along? And not do poo poo that lets them linger and makes other crazy assholes think (or know) that if they want to post up and hold a building hostage to violence all they have to do is be careful about how they talk about it? But not that careful, can't let the angry white guys fprget this is war and they'll be killing a lot of liberals very very sooooooooon.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:06
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My takeaway is the sheriff needs votes and can't be seen being mean at all to the idiots exercising extreme white privelege.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:27
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STAC Goat posted:Stopping trucks a couple of miles down the road seems like it would just lead to these assholes trotting out their with their guns and forcing a confrontation. As stupid as the premise is here (their fault, not yours) there is a marked difference between driving to a fed official and pointing a gun in their face to force them into action, and sitting around in the woods saying "golly gee I'm just here in case any feds need to be shot dead, really hope I don't have to but if I do I'm armed to the teeth and would totally be like neo". I'm fine with a strategy of letting the dorks in the ranger station walk themselves to a sad embarassing end (even if i dont think thats whats happening), I'm not fine with the govt shirking in the face of someone actually pointing weapons and saying "try and stop me". Which was my major complaint about the bundy situation. Multiple people sticking guns and training sights on federal employees and the solution was give them what they want and (so far as I know) charge a few stragglers with weak weapon licensing charges?
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Jan 12, 2016 22:57
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I have absolutely no problem with waiting them out and not even containing them but only if you're making a concerted effort to stop their stupid rear end PR campaign at the same time. It seems pretty obvious to me that the way you stop these guys is to cut them off from their fanbase. Mark Zuckerberg or an overzealous FB complaint wrangler could probably handle it on their own.
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Jan 13, 2016 00:00
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LeoMarr posted:Cutting power doesn't do much when the site has generators capable of powering the place for months on end with gas they could just siphon out of vehicles or buy in town. You really should try to counter your own arguments before posting so you realize how dumb your one tile arguments are. That's a bold sign off for someone saying "why do things, people will just do things". Making them run the gens and find the gas is exactly the kind of dumb busy work these guys should be subjected to. Its an easy and non confrontational way to encourage them to leave. Not doing it just says "feel free to stay". Thats why you do it.
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Jan 13, 2016 00:07
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I don't discount that the embarassment they're going through is a fine way to muss up the fun, but "conspiracy guys will say its a conspiracy" is a terrible reason for not doing all you can to end this thing quietly and quickly, and frankly its going to happen anyway. Its not like they're contemplating the meaning behind the fact that they still have power and comms and wondering if it means the feds aren't that bad. Bundy is still out there telling people that this is a war in their patented concern troll language. I doubt it would even stop them from getting messages out but it would at least stop them from doing radio interviews that are going to incite more of these.
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Jan 13, 2016 00:18
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Shutting off their internet may make some person think its a conspiracy and the fed is evil, so lets leave all that on and let them tell every RW facebook feed and every am radio station in the country that its a conspiracy and the fed is evil personally in their own voice live from operation git r dun.
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Jan 13, 2016 00:22
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LeoMarr posted:No I don't think that "White people will do white people things for ol' georgies praise!" I think that what you see as lack of control is evidence of control. The Government agencies don't inherently need to deny them power or food to control their freedom of movement. They are enclosed in county lines. The town allows a wider vantage for Government agencies to promote subterfuge and infiltrate the ranks further. If there was just 12 joes and schmo it's pretty obvious to know who an informant is or who doesn't belong. However letting these retards yell and scream about god and sovcit in town will allow "followers" to be used. "Busy work" is great and all however this isn't world war 2. We don't need to bomb a ball bearing factory to save England. The idea is to draw out miltia groups that are capable of causing a real issue. Look at the Oklahoma city bombing as a case study on this, Mcveigh was seen at the scenes of both Waco and Ruby Ridge after both incidents occurred. You should really not be scolding anyone online about dumb arguments if you really think the feds are using a town as a false flag secret honeypot for walmart tactical guys.
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Jan 13, 2016 00:26
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I'm not continuing with this if I'm talking to someone who thinks its a double reverse federal psy op, who also thinks I was under the impression that they're logging on and making youtube vids with the office computers. Cmon.
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Jan 13, 2016 00:29
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I don't know why anyone is expecting charges here when the only people charged at the bundy ranch were a few dudes who were so dumb with their guns the feds basically had no choice. And that place had guns pointed at fed employees and two people who were supposedly asked to leave go on an actual cop killing spree. I don't pretend to know the wisdom or folly behind that action (besides this thread obviously) but its a fact and there's nothing that tells me this is different so far.
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Jan 13, 2016 01:13
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LeoMarr posted:People ITT: Arm Chairing the next WACO, then when the roadblock does happen and civilians die in the ensuing firefight "Welp they should have cut the power first" You called the whole town a false flag, at least log into a parachute account if you want to try again.
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Jan 13, 2016 01:42
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LeoMarr posted:Cite where I did this. Search your own history for "honeypot" and figure it out from there.
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Jan 13, 2016 01:53
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Still true tho
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Jan 13, 2016 01:59
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Lmao, Cliven told the feds to gently caress off in the mid 90s with a threat of violence, racked up a million dollar bill that was already heavily discounted, did the same thing again a few times, got a bunch of friends to shove guns in their faces, and now his sons are setting up their own local govt at gunpoint. But its ok guys this time you just have to wait a few years and they'll do something.
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Jan 13, 2016 02:13
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Really hoping no one owns me by saying I told you so when Cliven Bundy VII is sentenced to a month in the lunar rock quarry for unlawful brandishment of a laser rail gun at a Trump enforcer bot in a spate over whether or not the federal govt owns the 8th dimension. Edit: sorry if it wasn't clear but when I say "did it again a few times" I'm referring to the BLM contacting him asking him to maybe comply with the law and him responding that he'll shoot anyone who tries to make him. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jan 13, 2016 |
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Jan 13, 2016 02:18
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I'm fine with assuming the FBI's tactics are inscrutable to me, but I'd like to know what's so tactically important about leaving these dudes alone so long that they've let the Bundy family incite two of these things personally and send the message nationally that if you're a white man in walmart tactical gear, and can massage your death threats correctly, you now can live your anti-obama underground army dreams out loud.
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Jan 13, 2016 05:01
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Everyone be nice to the peaceful protestors please
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Jan 13, 2016 18:09
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I think it'd probably be best for everyone if they sent Stoya and Alexis Texas in to give him a bj at the meeting. It's unknown at this point how many times Ammon Bundy has cummed during the standoff, and the odds aren't good seeing as how cold it is and how busy he's been. Don't want anyone getting too backed up and starting a waco. I know this sounds like I'm giving in to them or unduly treating them with kids gloves but you just don't understand how these things are done. If those men don't cum hard its simply escalating the situation. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jan 13, 2016 |
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Jan 13, 2016 19:30
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Its just a protest, we'd like to keep it that way. But let us know if you see any young or black people show up to complain, the undercover unit is getting bored. Again, I'm fine with the FBI being unknowable in this situation, but I have a big problem with the broad strokes and facts regarding the utter lack of discouragement over the course of decades and 2(+ if you include previous dad incidents) armed "protests" by a single family angry over a bill they racked up. Ok, lets not start another waco but at the same time lets encourage a lot more Bundy Ranch instant-waco starter kits? What are we doing some kind of grand social experiment to ferret out the magical, juuuuuust right, situation where some guy occupying his local post office is a hero for standing-his-ground on a federal employee?
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Jan 13, 2016 20:08
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Not like we needed any proof after last year, but saying "all law enforcement is politically biased and you are expected to bow to it" as if its some  good thing that people just don't appreciate enough is pretty gross.
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Jan 13, 2016 20:29
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I assume the bundys don't give a poo poo about fines because they're secret CIA informants or something and never have to face consequences ever, but its fun to see the reaction from others there about being handed the bill for their stunt. Especially since its increasingly clear they won't get anything they want other than attention. Which isn't nothing, but at the same time all the regular coverage seems to be keenly aware of how idiotic the whole thing is sooooooo idk.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:49
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Someday leomarr will find the hero in all this. I suggest the meth head as the next candidate.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:54
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I'm pretty sure the reason they don't care about fines is because their dad has owed the feds more than a million dollars for a decade+ and then in the midst of prosecution they gave ammon a half a million dollar loan, all while being threatened with violence.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:01
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Lyapunov Unstable posted:I've been out of the loop for about a week - have they opened up an airstrip with regular commercial flights yet? FBI representatives are currently sieging the southwest airlines headquarters to make sure the flyin free freedom airport fees don't get undercut on travelocity. Have to make sure we don't have another Waco here.
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Jan 14, 2016 00:51
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theflyingorc posted:I, too, sarcastically restate what multiple experts say in all seriousness That we should give such wide deferrence to armed angry white men that they spend two weeks encouraging other angry white men to do the same while enjoying taxpayer heat and shelter and begin setting up a sovcit govt in town all because we hosed up 20 years ago?
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Jan 14, 2016 02:06
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ymgve posted:I'm all for making fun of these people and sending them small funny things but did that fucker really spend ONE THOUSAND UNITED STATES DOLLARS to prank them? Some men just want to watch the world chafe
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Jan 14, 2016 04:44
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Please god, if I have to accept trump, at least let me see a NYT rundown of what a super sheriff is.
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Jan 14, 2016 04:50
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This is required reading for this thread. Dispatches straight from the den of ineptitude.
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Jan 14, 2016 05:22
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Condiv posted:so we can't ever arrest them or their friends will murder us? might as well give them the land they want then Worked for Cliven
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Jan 14, 2016 15:59
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Reminder: the first time Cliven scared the federales off his case with a threat of violence was in the mid 90s. But don't worry, they'll get all these guys. Any day now.
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Jan 14, 2016 17:11
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Who What Now posted:And remember, not confronting them is making them feel awfully silly and not at all emboldening them to pull more and more dangerous stunts. Wouldn't want to start another Waco without helping the Dude Ranch Davidians do a few dry runs and get their tactics and grievances dialed in for maximum damage.
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Jan 14, 2016 17:19
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Discendo Vox posted:Impunity would require that they never be charged or arrested. Again, this can happen sometime in the next, I dunno, 20 years? Michael Brown will be thrilled
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Jan 14, 2016 17:29
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theflyingorc posted:Correct, I am glad you agree with the FBI former deputy assistant director of terrorism operations, who previously was successful at negotiating a peaceful resolution to a standoff with a radical religious sect that was threatening to kill federal agents. I'm sure the las vegas shooting victims, town of Burns and the next town to host shootypalooza are thrilled. And seeing as we're posting in a thread about his sons taking over a federal building at gunpoint I question how peaceful and resolved that peaceful resolution is.
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Jan 14, 2016 17:33
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Cantorsdust posted:you look weak Uh I've said multiple times in here that my beef isn't that these guys aren't being rolled on, or blockaded or that I'm not being updated on the FBI's tactics. I understand the value of not giving them the response they want and that the govt would want their plans to be a bit inscrutable to the militants. But that doesn't mean I'm going to make up excuses for them on the very valid question of: why aren't they doing even the bare minimum to discourage them from being there? Or curb their broadcasts asking for backup and supplies? I'm open to the idea that there is an answer, no one here has given me a compelling one yet. The risk of "starting another waco" should not be a magic spell that forces law enforcement to retreat. Frankly, if it was me in charge, I'd be more concerned about the millions of young angry people who spent a summer protesting about issues of life and death looking at this thing entering week two and thinking "yeah ok but if I'm 12 and dumb at a park official policy now says I get .4 seconds before being justifiably executed". Rightly or wrongly that's just as valid of a PR battle as not letting ammon bundy say "see, they turned off the power, they're out to get us". And not only that, its one you can win. Right now Ammon Bundy and crew aren't being touched and they're still telling reporters they expect black helicopters, tanks and HALO jumping commandos (not kidding, see the Willamette story). They're going to cry no matter what. At least turn the loving power off and see if anyone is too lazy to run a generator. They forgot to pack food to a years long occupation, its not a bad bet.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:09
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SocketWrench posted:They took over an empty building at gunpoint? Pointed at who, there's nothing to point them at. Well, maybe the walls, and I'm sure those walls quaked with fear. Might as well say they stormed an empty field in buttfuck nowhere. Waco it ain't but don't pretend this would be the same situation if the Paiute tribe stormed the place with no guns. Also keep in mind they have children mixed in with armed men who told newspapers slavery never happened and that they honestly expect an attack at any moment, they're in danger no matter how patriotic and heroic these guys are.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:36
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Discussions going fast so if anyone actually wants a response desperately let me know. Flyingorc, sorry I got whatever youre referring to wrong. I still don't see the value in this strategy (although i apprecitae people explainging it better) and would be more pissed if the feds were dealing with something other than idiots. As I said about michael brown and tamir rice, rightly or wrongly (as in, no this isn't a fair comparison BUT) people perceive the difference and internalize it. The US doesn't actually operate via mob rule and super sherrifs either but that didn't stop these guys from believing it and acting. The various differences and reasons don't really matter to someone who knows they receive very different treatment from their local police. It pisses me off and I do consider and acknowledge the difference. I can't even imagine being a black teen in Louisiana watching this go down.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:47
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LeoMarr posted:So for those who want an aggressive approach to the situation, If this becomes a blood bath and innocent people end up dying what will be your responses? I'll go on fox news with their facebook pictures and declare them no angels.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:57
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The news has really been dropping the ball on the mormon and sovcit angles on this thing imo. I believe these guys to be way more dangerous than I first thought after hearing more about those motivations.
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Jan 14, 2016 19:07
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Don't want to cause another OKC bombing, better let the crazies with guns make 20 more facebook video posts to their crazy friends about how they saw gov't robot deer spying on their besieged compound and the super secret coded PDF they found on BLM computers about the coming FEMA genocide squads.
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Jan 14, 2016 19:44
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