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wiffle ball bat posted:Ideological opponents of the Occupy movement and the hashtag Black Lives Matter movement would often use instances of rape, arson, assault and vandalism to characterize the entire group as a whole as "thugs" and "criminals" a point of view I personally disagree with.This is a common practice, to attempt to use the actions of a non-representational few to discredit the movement as a whole. It's disingenuous and intellectually lazy, in my opinion, to argue the character of the protesters rather than the ideas they're risking life and limb to support. The ideas they're supporting is armed insurrection against the rightful elected government because it doesn't support their racist, reactionary ideology. Sounds like terrorists
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Jan 3, 2016 22:41
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wiffle ball bat posted:They're actually protesting two ranchers being charged with terrorism for killing a couple of deer out of season and doing a controlled burn on federal land. Illegal, yes. Terrorism? Not in my very humble opinion. Pretty sure the terrorism charges are for making death threats and nearly burning a bunch of firefighters to death while they slept.
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Jan 3, 2016 22:46
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wiffle ball bat posted:You would be wrong in this instance because there are no threats associated with the arson case. They did a controlled burn of a poaching site (a couple of dead deer) that was adjacent to a firefighter camp. No one got hurt. A police report was filed and they didn't get charged until 5 years after the fact on brand new terrorism charges that the original judge said "would shock the conscience" and constitute cruel and unusual punishment if carried out. Oh nevermind, it looks like the terrorism charges were a bunch of made up poo poo that never happened, 5 years was the sentence for two counts of committing arson on federal land. http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison
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Jan 3, 2016 23:17
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wiffle ball bat posted:Now I don't mean to get too "meta" here but it would appear to me that lusting for the violent death of peaceful protesters runs counter to the spirit a healthy debate and discussion forum would need to cultivate to thrive and promote a healthful exchange of ideas on various controversial topics. Occupying things with guns is not a peaceful protest.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:20
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Xandu posted:Doesn't seem like anyone's actually asked them to leave yet, and they are letting people come onto the property freely So if I break into your house with a gun and threaten to resist to the death anyone who tries to remove me that's not violent unless someone actually asks me to leave? What are they loving vampires?
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Jan 3, 2016 23:24
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wiffle ball bat posted:http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/12/ranchers_fight_with_feds_spark.html Get hosed, you're just knowingly posting lies now. This decision overturning their sentence: https://www.unitedstatescourts.org/federal/ord/98227/228-0.html The original indictment: http://landrights.org/or/Hammond/Hammond_superseding-indictment%20May%2017%202012.pdf
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Jan 3, 2016 23:36
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wiffle ball bat posted:It's the resentenced under anti-terrorism sentencing provisions part that is important and crucial crux of understanding the grievances of the brave men and women of the Oathkeepers. no, they weren't, they were sentenced under the arson provisions, for arson. The crucial crux of understanding the grievances of the disgrace to the uniform which is the the Oathkeepers is that they are about as founded in reality as complaining about flag fringes.
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Jan 3, 2016 23:50
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wiffle ball bat posted:http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/10/controversial_oregon_ranchers.html Every higher court that looked at it after that posted:You must be loving high, they almost killed someone
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Jan 3, 2016 23:59
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KING BONG posted:If you're referring to the Bundy Ranch stand off, they didn't exactly break any laws. Breaking into a Federal Building armed is a lot different than stating you don't agree with an arrest while holding a firearm. Pointing guns at people is a crime
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Jan 4, 2016 00:19
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KING BONG posted:Depending on what state you're in. really? what state is pointing a gun at federal officers not a crime? edit:https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/111
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Jan 4, 2016 00:34
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Man Whore posted:Actually Oregon has open-carry so unless they start using those guns, yes it is. the threat of violence is not peaceful
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Jan 4, 2016 01:26
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drilldo squirt posted:They took over a state building in california if I remember right. You remember wrong, they attempted to enter the assembly, were kicked out by police, and instead protested on the steps outside.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:31
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drilldo squirt posted:It's interesting to see the dichotomy of how the public and government reacted differently to the panthers and how they are reacting to this group. Its not comparable, the Panthers were fully compliant with the police and were assured they could keep their weapons if they didn't violate the law.
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Jan 4, 2016 01:49
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Man Whore posted:For someone who's already a militia member or part of the whole life style but if joe shmoe is watching cnn and the FBI starts gunning people down, I think he might start listening to the words these people are saying. So I'm guessing you weren't alive during the Clinton presidency
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Jan 4, 2016 02:07
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Man Whore posted:only for half of it, but what effects did waco and ruby ridge have on militia membership? Now imagine ruby ridge only there's a live stream so people can watch the FBI shoot a kid and his dog in real-time. I wasn't talking about Waco and Ruby Ridge specifically, I was referencing the broader fact the stated motivations of the militia movement don't intersect with factual grievances in any way, there was a new ridiculous conspiracy theory or claim seemingly every day. I mean gently caress, just look at the easily disprovable bullshit they're using to justify this action.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:18
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Man Whore posted:Thats true but in the 90's you didn't have cops shooting unarmed people on the news every week(Rodney king was beaten so it doesn't count!) and the government literally spying on us and nothing being done about it as common knowledge. The reason militias are as small as they are is because they are taking on stupid right wing pet causes instead of things the public is actually concerned about. but I am seeing some very left wing people waving around III%er flags now because they think they are the only ones doing anything about the militization of police and the eroding of the 5th and 14th ammendment. It's adorable that you think all of this stuff is new when it used to be far worse, not better. The militia types support local police killing black people, it's the feds coming in to stop them they're up in arms about.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:17
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Man Whore posted:I don't think its worse now, Its just becoming increasingly publicized. As to the second part, uhhh if you say so but I know a lot of "anarcho-capitalists" IRL who ran off to join a militia because the government keeps gunning people down. It's becoming increasing publicized in large part because people increasingly care. We knew about COINTELPRO and the LAPD in the 90s
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Jan 4, 2016 03:24
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MaxxBot posted:Is this level of buffoonery typical for these militia groups? I'm just an effete big city liberal and I could put up a better anti-government resistance than this. If you only knew the level of buffoonery in the real military...
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Jan 4, 2016 20:04
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fart blood posted:I don't. They shouldn't be ignored. If this were Black Lives Matter they'd all be beaten and/or arrested and/or shot right now. If it was BLM I don't think anyone would have even noticed.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:34
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Cythereal posted:Because they don't want to give these chucklefucks the martyrdom that they want. As it is, the far right is distancing themselves pretty heavily from these idiots. If the Feds drop the hammer, it's going to be high-octane fuel for further far-right backlashes. Not supplying utilities for the revolution is hardly dropping the hammer
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Jan 5, 2016 17:05
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Vienna Circlejerk posted:It really doesn't matter who starts shooting. If there are any casualties at all, this will be spun into another Ruby Ridge. Anybody old enough to remember Waco will remember the amount of crazy conspiracy poo poo that even got on network TV, like the flamethrower tank. Haha I had forgotten about the flamethrower tank.
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Jan 5, 2016 19:46
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Mystic_Shadow posted:I never said that, but here's a link for you. I never understand why the outrage over this incident was the use of explosives, a one pound gel explosive does in fact sound like an entry device. The issue was when it started a fire they decided to let it burn.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:13
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Mystic_Shadow posted:They let it burn and decided to shoot anyone trying to escape the fire. Yeah, that's kind of my point, every time the MOVE bombing is brought up its in the context of  Oh my god the police DROPPED BOMBSBut they were tiny little 1lb breaching charges, what was horrifying about that incident was how they treated the fire, and that never seems to get mentioned. edit: drat that was a bad typo, my brain broke or something Jarmak fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 20:27
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buttcoinbrony posted:Also we can't raid yet, not before PETA shows up. oh jesus, I've changed my mind, drone them. (but wait for PETA to arive first)
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Jan 6, 2016 21:00
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UV_Catastrophe posted:New plan: Infiltrate and overwhelm the protest with animal rights and environmental activists. See if the Feds change their strategy. Actually a mass protest from environmentalists claiming equal rights to use the public land for a nature reserve would be an excellent counter to these moron's narrative.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:05
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I was pretty excited to see these guys get stomped after nothing happened at the Bundy ranch but the last few days have changed my mind after it turned out these guys were nothing but a bunch of bumblefuck retards sitting in a cabin. They're probably the greatest gift the feds have gotten in a long time, its like a never-ending font of bad PR for the white militia groups. These guys have turned out to be such a sad bunch of losers not only is the entire world laughing at them, the actual major militias like the 3%ers and the Oath Keepers have all run themselves out of town for fear of association. Its almost as entertaining as watching a bunch of people who are normally falling all over themselves to condemn the police arresting left wing protesters for things like breaking and entering, trespassing, and vandalism because they're fighting the system or some bullshit be unable to contain their lust for seeing the other team brutalized to either A) realize how loving hypocritical that is or B) realize that what the FBI is doing right now is tactically the best thing to maximize the damage done to the militia movement by this bullshit.
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Jan 7, 2016 22:37
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Mr. Wookums posted:The FBI was acting against minority civil rights groups well past segregation (which was irrelevant to the FBI) into at least 1972. Being that the FBI will not state why Occupy Cleveland (which was a super small group who had a tent in the warehouse district. I lived downtown during everything and you had to seek them out in a tent in a parking lot) was targeted as a terrorist organization, but other leaks have shown it was in corporation with banks. I suppose that element is missing here, the same interest groups that wanted OWS labeled as terrorists do not want white people to be labeled as such or have appropriate responses to terrorists (who are white). Pictured here: not white people
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Jan 7, 2016 22:53
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Talmonis posted:Why yes, this picture does indeed show young people of various races. Congratulations? Yeah you're right, the 3 black people in the whole crowd of white people really makes that "Occupy Cleveland was classified as terrorist and the reason Bundy isn't is because he's white" argument make sense.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:01
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Talmonis posted:You're bad at this. The issue is that he's right-wing and white, not just white. Students get hosed because they're seen as leftists. Minorities always get hosed regardless. If some Right Wing hard line muslims took over federal lands, the military would be called in to remove them. What? He said white, not left-wing The issue here is you're just making a lazy equivocation and then playing a dishonest shell game when called out on why its really dumb to say "well the only reason these guys aren't getting tear gassed is because they're
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Jan 8, 2016 00:37
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Volkerball posted:they are in a federal building where federal employees work and are using firearms to prevent them from coming back. if it doesn't apply there, it applies nowhere. also all of this happened in 2014 where nothing but fines were issued, and it's now happening again. It was closed for the winter
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Jan 10, 2016 00:29
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TheBalor posted:Closed for the holiday, not the winter. Do you have a source for this? My understanding was it wasn't staffed in the winter time.
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Jan 10, 2016 00:41
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Turtle Sandbox posted:I assume the most military people they have were trigger pullers who don't understand that war is nothing more than a massive logistics game and not won on the backs of personal heroism and sacrifice, hth. I had the opposite impression, a bunch of support guys playing trigger puller who have never had to live off only what they could carry, or figure out how to they're going to get food when there's not a chow hall three tents down.
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Jan 10, 2016 18:09
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Tampons are actually really good at quickly treating bullet wounds, it is possible they want them to prep for the coming last stand.
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Jan 11, 2016 13:33
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Okay I was of the opinion that letting these guys continue to generate bad PR for the militia movement was good strategy for the FBI, now that this seems to be snowballing I'm shifting back toward thinking napalm is the appropriate solution.
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Jan 12, 2016 02:37
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Clearly what this town needs is an organized militia to fight off these foreign invaders.
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Jan 12, 2016 20:05
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SocketWrench posted:I'm not pretending anything. it's the same sensationalism as describing someone being "shot to death" by one gunshot. What the gently caress? Shot to death is shot to death whether its 1 shot or 50.
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Jan 14, 2016 19:57
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:You punch up, not punch down. Are you loving insane? "punch up not punch down" is a principle you use when determining whether a racy joke is okay, not whether killing someone is okay.
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Jan 15, 2016 15:18
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kartikeya posted:Nah, you misunderstand my objection. Comparing police responses is one thing (I'm pissed about it too), and while yes, yes, local police and the FBI are not the same, that doesn't mean you don't run into the same biases or that the FBI is somehow immune to the sort of things that cause this issue with local PD. I mean, really, this is at the level of total farce by this point, and it's not just the FBI, it's the entire response from law enforcement to the media. The state's response to protests should be based on the political content of those protests, that sounds like a great policy position not in violation of the constitution that can't backfire in anyway. Also the Ferguson protests involved full blown riots that burned/looted/destroyed like half a city block, and involved exchanges of gunfire with police. It was not "they threw a rock" and it was definitely more violent. The police response to Ferguson was pretty hosed up but trying to draw the comparison you are is 
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Jan 18, 2016 20:31
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SedanChair posted:The difference with Ferguson is that the police escalated first. Believing a violent response (by the protesters) justified does not make it peaceful.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:37
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chitoryu12 posted:The violence in Ferguson came after the police began firing tear gas and rubber bullets at protesters, cordoned media into a "free speech zone" where they couldn't record anything going on unless they snuck out, and attacked and arrested reporters while firing tear gas into suburban neighborhoods. That's nonsense, the first time rubber bullets were employed was in response to the burning of the quickstop, and they had to cordon people because large crowds chanting "kill the police" were interfering with the crime scene on the first day. You guys should really stick with the "justified boiling over of violence due to long history of abuse by the system and collapse of any faith of working within it" narrative. This revisionist history poo poo is just pathetic. edit: My memory was wrong, the first use of rubber bullets was to clear people out of the burnt husk of the quickstop the following day Jarmak fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 20:49
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