|
"It's not that the rule of law doesn't apply to white militias. The FBI is just doing the smart thing and they are going to wait a few months and then quietly arrest these guys!" - D&D justifying doing jack poo poo during the original Cliven Bundy incident. Yeah, that is totally what happened. I'm glad they actually did anything at all about this the first time so it wouldn't escalate!
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2016 10:55
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 10, 2024 09:50 |
|
|
Dr. Tough posted:I hate to spoil the ending but the police will probably just surround the place and starve them out. I know a lot of people on this subforum have turned on a dime into bloodthirsty maniacs, but I would be surprised if it turned into a giant shootout. Actually, they won't do anything at all, just like last time.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2016 15:32
|
|
|
Talkc posted:Worst case scenario: They brought family, the place is on fire, and dozens dead minimum. They aren't going to get arrested or fined or inconvenienced in any way whatsoever. Nothing will be done. UV_Catastrophe posted:Can somebody please explain why nobody in the Bundy clan was arrested in the time between the last standoff and this one? There is no strategy, no one wants to look like they are picking on the Republicans so the Bundy Family and every other group know that they have carte blanche to do whatever they want. This will only escalate as they start to realize that they won't be touched for anything they do, period.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2016 20:20
|
|
|
Aesop Poprock posted:I agree with this. I just wasn't sure if this was actually happening or not. Like I said, if it isn't it'd be hilarious if their plea for snacks just got ignored, they got colder and hungrier and went home. And then receive a summons in the mail a few days later None of them got a summons when they did much worse at the Bundy Ranch (threaten hotel employees if they let federal police stay at the hotel, threatened to torch a reporters car). They didn't get a fine or a stern talking to or anything. If they didn't even get a stern talking to for that, why would they get in trouble at all for this?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 5, 2016 13:23
|
|
|
LGD posted:Sure, but I don't see why those consequences would be substantially different from what usually happens (or we feel should happen) when people illegally occupy a public space (such as a park or campus building) as a means of political protest and civil disobedience. Waiting them out and then hitting a few of the ringleaders with a couple trespassing or vandalism charges seems perfectly appropriate. buttcoinbrony posted:Yes they should be arrested but crimes don't exist in a vacuum. If we can wait for them to run out of snacks then arrest them quietly one by one that is far better than rolling up in armored cars and kicking off the Waco Memorial Race War. The government is actually being smart for once, yes it sucks that these white idiots are getting treated more gently than OWS/BLM protesters but as someone said earlier: SocketWrench posted:To add insult to injury, after they've broken, the feds start mailing out letters to them for fines of trespassing, vandalism, and whatever else The issue isn't that people want a raid to happen for redneck blood, the issue is that the "and a couple of months afterwards they will be arrested or fined" never happens. In the Bundy Ranch incident people literally threatened reporters and townsfolk and there were no arrests or fines, everyone just went home realizing that they can do whatever the gently caress they want with no consequences at all.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 7, 2016 04:01
|
|
|
Salt Fish posted:Why is arresting them today more valuable then arresting them in a month? They serve the same sentence but one outcome is far less likely to involve people being killed. Do you place no value at all on the life of a criminal or the life of a police officer? Because they won't be arrested in a month, or ever, much like the people at the Bundy ranch that threatened hotel employees in the nearby town for working at a hotel that the feds had the temerity to stay at. They won't even be fined.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 7, 2016 21:13
|
|
|
TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:They could very well still face consequences for the last time, maybe you aren't aware but these sorts of cases are built for a long time before action is actually taken. tsa posted:The reason the feds win so much is because they build solid cases before proceeding. Just be patient, I'm sure your lust for revenge will be sated eventually. It doesn't take two years to build a case against someone threatening to shoot a teenager for having the temerity of working at a hotel where police might stay at some point in the future. This prosecution isn't happening, and y'all are in denial.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 7, 2016 21:21
|
|
|
LGD posted:I'm just trying to figure out if people in this thread would still be in favor of their being killed though I'm not in favor of them being killed or harmed outside of a courtroom. I just don't agree with the idea that Ruby Ridge / Waco having happened means they should have a blank check to commit other crimes (like threatening townspeople) because the government is scared of looking bad again. People keep saying "Let them get bored and leave and arrest them later," and this is a good solution that isn't what happened at the Bundy ranch and probably won't happen here since it's the same people.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 7, 2016 22:22
|
|
|
Being sent to jail is being harmed.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 7, 2016 22:32
|
|
|
Condiv posted:why can't they arrest them while they're in town away from the others? that chips em away too Apparently because the police need 30 years to build a case when it comes to white supremacist militias.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 8, 2016 11:56
|
|
|
Jagchosis posted:The people who are saying federal investigations are slow going especially after it loses a major test case are the correct ones btw, as are the people who do not think slaughter is the appropriate solution at this juncture (especially given how badly its been going for the militants so far). I hope this clears up some of the confusion in the thread. "This guy threatened to shoot a hotel employee" isn't something that should require a two year federal case* when the police could deal with it. *This case doesn't actually exist because the authorities have decided to ignore everything that happened at the Bundy ranch, sorry kid, threats against your life aren't worth doing anything about!
|
|
#
¿
Jan 8, 2016 12:05
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:we don't know why 2 didn't happen last time, except that cliven bundy's case is still in the court system, so we're not sure that 2 isn't going to happen yet. but it seems like the prevailing assumption is that some unnamed persons at the bundy ranch standoff, who we might as well assume are the same people at the oregon standoff, committed crimes, and if we're assuming they committed crimes we might as well assume they're guilty too, and we can go all the way and assume the reason they were not punished for these theoretical crimes is because they are white men being coddled by a racist government who hates minorities. if any link in this chain of assumptions is false then my anger at the situation would be irrational, and we can't let that happen "Cliven Bundy's case is still in the court system" regarding his fines, not any of the bomb threats or personal threats his followers made against people employed at hotels in the nearby town.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 8, 2016 19:42
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:i wasn't aware cliven bundy is criminally responsible for things that people did when they showed up at his ranch The point is that they never arrested or did anything against his followers that did those things. Of course, you know this, you are just pretending to be dense so that you can try to portray people that think that bomb threats should be illegal as liberal fascists or whatever your boogeyman happens to be. "A person makes a bomb threat" and "A person threatens to kill a hotel employee" are both normal crimes. So why weren't they pursued?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 8, 2016 20:20
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:can you quote the post where i said this? i won't apologize for making fun of people who decry police brutality in some instances and encourage it in others You heard it here first - Asking that people that call in bomb threats and threaten to shoot people be charged with a crime is "encouraging police brutality!"
|
|
#
¿
Jan 9, 2016 00:08
|
|
|
The sheriffs wife and family had to leave town because of threats from these guys, but I guess that is considered peaceful and okay!
|
|
#
¿
Jan 9, 2016 09:31
|
|
|
Crain posted:It is a hyperbolic example, but my greater point is that the government should at least try to deal with one incident before the next one starts. If they're going to take 20+ months to deal with each event it's quickly going to spiral out of control.  There actually are no 20 month plans to deal with the last one, because they aren't planning on doing anything about it.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 9, 2016 18:39
|
|
|
Lotka Volterra posted:Just as an fyi, they certainly are actively hurting people because there are federal employees that cannot do their jobs and if this stretches into months could see a loss of pay and whatever work is currently being done, which is bad Even besides that, they slashed the tires of the Sheriffs wife and have been stalking her. But I'm sure Popular Thug Drink is right and they are totally harmless pacifists who would never hurt a fly, so doing anything at all about them would be sinful.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 12, 2016 02:52
|
|
|
I love that the thread of Waco is enough to not only demand that the place not be sieged (which is perfectly reasonable, don't get me wrong) but is now enough to also demand that nothing else be done even after the fact. Oh, a guy left and we could arrest him? That would be another Waco! Tell Fedex not to deliver? That'd be Waco! Maybe stop people from slashing locals tires? Waco. Guys, if we don't let the Bundy's have the land and distribute it as they see fit, then ignore everything they have done and fail to ever prosecute them for it, there might be a Waco.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 13, 2016 03:28
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:no, seriously, from watching the stream yesterday there's at MOST 30 cars at the compound. the idea that this situation is spiraling out of control is not justified by the facts Are you purposefully ignoring the militia patrols that are in the town harassing people, or are you ignoring them by accident?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2016 15:46
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:Again, the federal government is going to be able to swoop in and arrest Bundy et al for years over that episode- preferably sometime after he stops being surrounded by men with ARs. The main difference now is they may be able to charge everyone involved under RICO. They even gave the guy his already seized cattle back, this is never going to happen.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2016 17:07
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:After the occupation ends, everyone involved should be arrested. If that was something that was actually going to happen, I think the thread would involve less fighting.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2016 20:03
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:yeah, but do they mean "I'll die first" or do they mean "I can't be arrested because the US government doesn't have the authority to take me in when I say these magic words" They mean they won't go to jail because the government won't try to arrest them because of the political consequences of picking on Republican affiliated conservative "patriots."
|
|
#
¿
Jan 15, 2016 19:34
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:And what if they don't cooperate? Then the law enforcement agents have to escalate with physical force! Did someone kidnap you and replace you with Jrod?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 16, 2016 01:28
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:Whether a judge will call it "trespassing and damaging federal property, six months in jail for a few of them" or "criminal sedition and conspiracy to overthrow the government, fifteen-plus years for everyone". The occupiers are still racking up crimes, still attracting more crazies, have got to be thoroughly infiltrated by undercover agents by now, and have yet to physically harm anyone. Given that it is now much more difficult than it used to be for the feds to extrapolate nonviolent crimes in court up to something like sedition, they're just helping the militia if they stop this early. At this point it's basically just a honeypot, and considering the Hutaree precedent, the FBI is in no hurry to say "okay, we've got enough evidence, let's break this up". A honeypot would require them to eventually do something with all the evidence they collected. This never happened with Cliven Bundy, it won't happen with his sons. It's too politically controversial to go after the Bundy family.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 19, 2016 17:10
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 10, 2024 09:50 |
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:That, and also the fact that they cannot accomplish anything of note by occupying indefinitely and will eventually go home on their own. And also the fact that the longer they're there, the more crimes they're committing, racking up long rap sheets without actually hurting anyone. Mainframe, you are being a huge idiot here. No one has argued that the FBI would "side with the militia," and the only reason you need to make strawmen of posters in this thread is because you are having to go to greater and greater lengths to try to find explanations for why nothing is being done. "They'll prosecute them in 20 years" hasn't worked, so now you've got to make things up. "They aren't going to go out of their way to punish people because that has political consequences" isn't saying the FBI is going to turn into a bunch of sovereign citizens, jesus christ.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 21, 2016 17:26
|
|