R. Scott Bakker & The Prince of Nothing: Better than Fucking a Hole in the Ground

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > R. Scott Bakker & The Prince of Nothing: Better than Fucking a Hole in the Ground

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

I just kind of attribute it to him being a guy from an older generation who was not meant to live in a world with the internet.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 14:59

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 14:51

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Added Space posted:

I have to completely disagree with the OP. The series is entirely one-note and preachy in an extremely disturbing way. I'd actually compare it most closely to the Methods of Rationality fanfic, although I will concede that at least the narrative is more tightly focused.

It's all about a genius hero who was raised in a Rationalist Kung Fu monastery in the ways of Being Rational, and this make him totally better then all the poor regular schlubs of the world. They're all helpless before his ability to think clearly and his transparently manipulative sociopathic outbursts. He proceeds to betray and steal the girlfriends of his two allies, because they totally belong on his Rationalist cock, and totally shows up his dad who just wasn't the genius he ended up being. No-one ever calls him out on his poo poo, because of course every other character he goes up against is written as a venial idiot who couldn't hope to show least bit of resistance to Rationalist Supreme. It's transparent wish fulfillment for the smart, antisocial kid who just knew he would be better then everyone else if given the right challenge. Heck, I was pretty much that kid and even I gave up on it because I didn't want to be a manipulative, backstabbing monster.

As for the intricate world and plot, it's been a while, but isn't it just a retelling of the Fourth Crusade with a heavy glop of fantasy make-up? Granted, that was a very interesting story in the annals of history, but all the author really adds to it is magical Jews and Arabs (the Jews are stronger but less numerous), Rationalist Batman co-opting it by pretending to be the Second Coming, and a vague race of shapeshifting aliens.

Let's be fair here: Nothing is as bad as Methods of Rationality. I'm pretty sure the Turner Diaries are better works of fiction than Methods of Rationality.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 18:51

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Methods of Rationality level would be if Bakker believed you could become a Dunyain by donating money to his organization to stop evil aliens and reading his blogposts.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 18:52

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Yeah all of Kellhus's kids are varying degrees of batshit savants.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a really weird parasitic twin thing going on though.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2016 19:04

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

House Louse posted:

I'd like to but I can't get them here

I said upthread I think Bakker's use of the real world to light E�rwa is one of its most interesting aspects, though I'm too ignorant to pick up on most of the philosophical bits. I thought Ajencis was more like Socrates for some reason though. I dunno.

He's Aristotle. The Philosopher anyone educated has to learn about and read, just like Aristotle was in the middle ages.

# ¿ May 19, 2016 18:19

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Libluini posted:

Not where I live. German philosophers are more known for using impenetrable language to make sure only other philosophers can understand them. Also there are multiple science magazines you can buy at every street kiosk, while I can't remember ever seeing something similar about philosophy. Our scientists like people reading about science, it turns out.

I don't know in what crap country you are forced to live, but over here the situation is reversed.

It's basically the same in the Anglosphere, except for maybe a few popularizers or philosophers who have crossed over into popular debates, like Daniel Dennett. Pop-science magazine are a thing.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2016 00:41

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Strom Cuzewon posted:

You mean they're condescending pricks who don't know how to talk to people?

:sokal burn:

I've done it. I've proved people in the humanities have an ungrounded belief in the good faith engagement of physicists in their discipline and are willing to forgive shoddy work in the hope of mending the rift between the two cultures-Alan Sokal

# ¿ Jul 9, 2016 13:33

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Strom Cuzewon posted:

Did he say that or are you saying that?

Figure it out.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2016 22:38

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Strom Cuzewon posted:

The most vital question - did kellhus bugger saubon?

Oh he was all up in there.

Speaking of Cnaiur is back :black101:

# ¿ Jul 28, 2016 21:54

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Strom Cuzewon posted:

I like to think he didn't, because Saubon knows there's no way Proyas will believe him, and that shame and powerlessness would gnaw away at him so much.

Oh wait, I confused Proyas and Saubon. Yeah Saubon didn't get special treatment.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2016 02:05

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Inspector 34 posted:

I'm so sick of sranc. Goddamnit I really hope they eradicate the entire species by the end of the book because I really don't want the next one to be about herding and slaughtering sranc again.

Oh my god, yes. Every Proyas chapter was slowed down so much by "Yep we're still killing a whole lot of Sranc"

# ¿ Aug 1, 2016 16:37

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

mcustic posted:

I just realized Bakker is ripping off Final Fantasy VII.

TIL Atman and reincarnation are Final Fantasy concepts

# ¿ Aug 14, 2016 18:19

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

mcustic posted:

I wasn't even aiming at that, although it fits the larger picture. I was talking about Jenova, a malicious alien entity that crash landed on the planet and got sealed off in a previous era, but now tries to gently caress with the normal planetary flow of souls/atman to further its sinister agenda, killing all life on the planet in the process. I was also joking.

Well now that's just uncanny

# ¿ Aug 14, 2016 23:02

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Jason Alexander as Achamian

And Tom Hardy as Cnaiur

# ¿ Aug 26, 2016 16:23

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Collateral posted:

I will slog on for the occasional memorable section of prose and try to skip the drek The philosophy, like so much of the continental field, is waffle.

Yeah okay Mr. Sokal, your hoax was real cool

# ¿ Jan 19, 2017 19:46

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Libluini posted:

I gave Bakker about four to five books long the benefit of the doubt, but I'm now fully convinced he is only writing like this for pure shockvalue. Basically the fantasy equivalent of slasher movies.

Edit:

This means after a certain point thinking about this is just wasting time. It's like wondering why there are no Trolls in Troll II.

There are no trolls in troll 2 because someone decided it would sell better as a sequel after it was already made

# ¿ Jan 21, 2017 01:27

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 14:51

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Sephyr posted:

Yeah, this may be the healthier approach. I find it annoying because Bakker can be surprisingly interesting with his story elements. The Indara-Kisaurim, Maithanet, the Nonmen, the Mandate, the Chorae. Hell, his curmudgeony gently caress-everything dragon was the coolest I've seen in ages. I often feel there is a much better, more compelling story going on at the margin of all the grimdark poo poo, never catching more than a second worth of spotlight.

Worse, even his dark stuff is getting lazy. The wincest and cannibalism of WLH already felt trite, and now this just takes me right out of the narrative just as I was getting back into things. I really think it was a hastily added thing, too: there is no mention or hint of it anywhere before. Kellhus is stupefied by blades of grass after first leaving his fastness, but not by regular, non-broodmare women. His daughters are not half-broodmare, or even close.

I wonder if George R. Martin is going to have an "Alan Moore post-Watchmen" moment at some point and look back at all the cesspool of edgy misery he unleashed by adding some grapgic rapes and skinning to fantasy. In Bakker's defense, though, he is not the equivalent of Rob Liefeld yet.

If you want more curmudgeony gently caress-everything dragons, read Grendel by John Gardner

Love that dragon that talks like the kind of 50 something philosophy professor who has tenure and no longer has to respect anyone's feelings

# ¿ Jan 24, 2017 18:34

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