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Peel posted:it's kind of understandable since i have seen a couple of extreme indigenous activist types get really squirmy and self-righteously evasive when asked what their rhetoric about land means in practice, but i didn't find sakai much like them and enough of his actual words have been posted itt that i think people should put up some actual textual evidence if they're going to claim he's a cryptogenocidaire or whatever he's constantly coy about what exactly he believes, but it's there, and his entire presentation is constructed to get the reader to come to these conclusions - and it's worked in the case of pener, homeex & others, obviously.
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May 11, 2018 02:50
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Yossarian-22 posted:rudatron and pener are the worst american chopper meme iteration yet which one of them strips completely naked to fight the other
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May 11, 2018 02:52
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I used prolix as a scrabble word once with the triple letter score on the X and owned my family on vacation
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May 11, 2018 02:53
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GalacticAcid posted:I used prolix as a scrabble word once with the triple letter score on the X and owned my family on vacation who says being an internet armchair leftist is useless
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May 11, 2018 02:55
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this was long before my posting days, not sure where I picked it up. Probably some terrible opinion writer in the Post-Gazette.
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May 11, 2018 02:59
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rudatron posted:it implicit, not explicit, and follows from his essentialist logic of a) whiteness is an inherent part of capitalist exploitation b) whites will never achieve solidarity with non-whites. it doesn't essentially lead there. it could just as easily lead to a country which, for example, followed the mold of soviet nationalities policy with federalized regions for ethnic minorities under the umbrella of a larger union. but i'm sure you'd dismiss this as the creation of "ethnostates" because you don't know what you're talking about on most subjects and find purchase among people easily hoodwinked by long posts and a pathological distaste for "identity politics"
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May 11, 2018 02:59
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hmm yes, 'separate but equal' is a sustainable model, and the USSR + yugoslavia didn't immediately break up into squabbling children who all hate each other. all of which is irrelevant to sakai who calls for 'desettlerization', not federationism.
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May 11, 2018 03:04
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Yossarian-22 posted:rudatron and pener are the worst american chopper meme iteration yet
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May 11, 2018 04:34
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rudatron posted:hmm yes, 'separate but equal' is a sustainable model, and the USSR + yugoslavia didn't immediately break up into squabbling children who all hate each other. nationalities policy was within the soviet union, not applied to the eastern bloc. wow, what a surprise you can't draw this basic distinction!
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May 11, 2018 04:37
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Is Settlers prolix? Asking for a friend.
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May 11, 2018 04:46
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i just think communism is a good idea
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May 11, 2018 05:05
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Market socialism guys, look that poo poo up
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May 11, 2018 05:07
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Karl Barks posted:Market socialism guys, look that poo poo up rick (from RIck and Morty): that sounds like slavery with extra steps
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May 11, 2018 05:11
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Yandat posted:rick (from RIck and Morty): that sounds like slavery with extra steps Its funny because that line is literally brought up when someone starts describing wage labor. The fact that none of the rick and morty "fandom" picked up on this is reason #5489 why they all deserve the gulag.
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May 11, 2018 05:19
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R. Guyovich posted:nationalities policy was within the soviet union, not applied to the eastern bloc. wow, what a surprise you can't draw this basic distinction!
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May 11, 2018 05:20
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rudatron posted:i have bad news about what happened to the soviet union. it was sabotaged by fat Arab oil barons and then a pizzahut representative came to power?
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May 11, 2018 05:21
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Top City Homo posted:it was sabotaged by fat Arab oil barons and then a pizzahut representative came to power? The blackest reaction
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May 11, 2018 05:23
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Top City Homo posted:it was sabotaged by fat Arab oil barons and then a liberal came to power? Fat and Arab????
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May 11, 2018 05:23
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basically anyone who argues for separatism isn't someone who is Woke, it's someone who is hiding their prejudice and narrow-mindedness behind their faux-concern for justice. It's the end result of a liberal mindset, unwilling to compromise on fetishizing/essentializing identity as a mystical force that radiates out, instead of a facade imposed through our interactions with others to which the only logical outcome is either: a) a completely unrealistic ideal of 'tolerance', where everyone is in a perpetual mexican stand-off with everyone else, where strict boundaries are managed, and the people who control those boundaries get to set the rules & enhance their own power (which is where media liberals see themselves) -- but in reality this is unstable outcome, that always breaks apart, into: b) open conflict, where the other is dehumanized as a necessary piece of mental gymnastics, because There Is No Alternative. when the liberal eventually gives up on a), they eventually embrace b), because the idea of challenging the politics of identity is, in their minds, impossible. rudatron fucked around with this message at 05:31 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 05:29
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kill the liberal in your mind
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May 11, 2018 05:31
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Karl Barks posted:Fat and Arab???? the power of islam oil 
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May 11, 2018 05:32
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Karl Barks posted:Market socialism guys, look that poo poo up google is telling me its for lameasses? Is this true??
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May 11, 2018 07:08
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUmyrmgyZvw
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May 11, 2018 07:40
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#meltdownmaydays
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May 11, 2018 09:46
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rudatron posted:it implicit, not explicit, and follows from his essentialist logic of a) whiteness is an inherent part of capitalist exploitation b) whites will never achieve solidarity with non-whites. alternative solution: the proletariat overthrows the capitalist class and institutes socialism. then, without the capitalist surplus extraction there's plenty for everyone and no need to keep building up white supremacy to defend the bourgeoisie, and real community can emerge. as per hexplainer's quote: J. Sakai posted:There is plenty of land in America. Everyone could live here who lives here, quite well, with a lot of autonomy, lot of justice, lot of room for expression and development. he talks at length in settlers about how white supremacy in the US was constituted as part of class relations which changed the character of 'white' people in the united states and (eventually via imperialism) in continental europe. implicit in this is that race relations can change again under different class relations. if you wanted to claim that he has an excessive focus on ethnic nationalism that would, if the basis for a mass revolutionary movement, ultimately scupper the construction of socialism and probably lead to grave crimes, that's probably a defensible position. lord knows nominal socialists have had problems with unintended consequences. but you're claiming he outright desires white genocide in secret, and you haven't produced any backing for this besides a feeble inference from claims that are themselves ungrounded in his texts and contradict explicit sentiments in them. quote:he's constantly coy about what exactly he believes, but it's there, and his entire presentation is constructed to get the reader to come to these conclusions - and it's worked in the case of pener, homeex & others, obviously. his entire presentation is constructed to get the reader to come to these conclusions that nobody but you thinks he holds? here's another unfortunately long sakai text: http://kersplebedeb.com/posts/the-shock-of-recognition. it's not directly contradictory, but we've already seen the things he's said that directly contradict your claims, instead it gives more of a flavour of his actual thinking. this stuff is from the twelfth section which is most relevant here, and short enough to read: TRENDS TOWARD UNEXPECTED FASCIST INFECTIONS? posted:We are used to thinking of national liberation movements as being pro-freedom, of being a force for liberation. But all nationalist movements have inherently both liberating and repressive possibilities, based on different class politics within a broad mass movement. It would be a mistake, for instance, to view the historic Nation of Islam as just being around the politics of Malcolm X. He gradually became a radical anti-capitalist, as he himself said many times. He wasn’t a “Marxist” or an “anarchist” in a European ideological framework, but identified with the communal socialist ideas that had grown within many anti-colonial revolutions. Malcolm’s Black nationalism was a nationalism of the oppressed classes, which is to say it was internationalist at its heart. When he famously cried out, “The Black Revolution is sweeping Asia! The Black Revolution is sweeping Latin America! The Black Revolution is sweeping Africa!” , it was obvious that to him it wasn’t about a race or a nation but about the world’s oppressed majority. And he lived what he said. While it was the practice for the NOI to operate as a franchised business, with the local minister being given property and the right to keep all the revenues raised above the quotas assigned by Chicago, Malcolm refused to accept personal wealth. Peel fucked around with this message at 10:02 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 09:57
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no peel don't do it
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May 11, 2018 10:04
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sorry ill stop
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May 11, 2018 10:06
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i don't even like sakai
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May 11, 2018 10:06
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i'm sakai
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May 11, 2018 10:18
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The whole argument that "white" people (which means absolutely nothing to me as a finn to begin with) will not be a motor for revolution still relies on the assumption that race identity will forever persist as the defining factor that people in america use to divide themselves into opposing camps.
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May 11, 2018 12:04
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there's a difference between being a motor and being the motor. whites can be incorporated into the ranks of any revolutionary movement but it's almost certain they'll be a minority, due to all the preexisting biases and allegiances sakai lays out. this is an uncomfortable reality for the barely embryonic us left, who understand there is a diversity problem in their orgs but envisions the solution as more minority members with relatively unchanged leadership. demsoc types recognize the absurdity of the "hire more women guards" attitude from liberals but still have a problem organizing with minorities due to their own blind spots. this is a symptom of what sakai talks about, especially in the chapters on cpusa.
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May 11, 2018 13:48
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lollontee posted:The whole argument that "white" people (which means absolutely nothing to me as a finn to begin with) will not be a motor for revolution still relies on the assumption that race identity will forever persist as the defining factor that people in america use to divide themselves into opposing camps. your finnish people evicted the colored original inhabitants (slavs) from the country
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May 11, 2018 15:50
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lollontee posted:The whole argument that "white" people (which means absolutely nothing to me as a finn to begin with) will not be a motor for revolution still relies on the assumption that race identity will forever persist as the defining factor that people in america use to divide themselves into opposing camps. Lol no one cares about Finland
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May 11, 2018 15:52
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Dreddout posted:Lol no one cares about Finland *Matt Bruenig begins making the Sound of Ultimate Suffering a la Cary Elwes in The Princess Bride*
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May 11, 2018 15:53
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Plutonis posted:your finnish people evicted the colored original inhabitants (slavs) from the country Samis aren't slavs, and we just killed them until they went north enough that not even finns wanted to live therw
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May 11, 2018 16:41
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Finns are just Diet Magyars
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May 11, 2018 16:43
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Magyars are just diet Mongolians
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May 11, 2018 16:51
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R. Guyovich posted:there's a difference between being a motor and being the motor. whites can be incorporated into the ranks of any revolutionary movement but it's almost certain they'll be a minority, due to all the preexisting biases and allegiances sakai lays out. this is an uncomfortable reality for the barely embryonic us left, who understand there is a diversity problem in their orgs but envisions the solution as more minority members with relatively unchanged leadership. demsoc types recognize the absurdity of the "hire more women guards" attitude from liberals but still have a problem organizing with minorities due to their own blind spots. this is a symptom of what sakai talks about, especially in the chapters on cpusa. I agree with all of that, and I don’t see why it’d be uncomfortable for you besides base human racism. Wanna quote Sakai on why it’s a problem for demsocs? to me you’re all americans, skin colour doesn’t make a difference to that. nationality is a curse just like race, one none of us had a choice about, and I do not understand why you insist on slapping additional qualifiers to your american nationality like it somehow makes it different or better or somehing
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May 11, 2018 17:10
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Dreddout posted:Magyars are just diet Mongolians And they're actually unrelated. What is an interesting question is the relation between Uralics and Aryans, since their assumed urheimat are right next to each other, but the languages show few if any common words
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May 11, 2018 17:58
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arent the sami also uralic
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May 11, 2018 17:59
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