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hi guys i keep up with this sort of issue kind of often (my avatar was not bought by me tho) and was wondering how many of you are aware of U-47700 it is a new grey-market opioid that is 7.5x the potency of morphine and is INCREDIBLY caustic, no matter if you're snorting it, putting it up your bum, or IVing it. it also has an incredibly short duration of action, leading users to need to redose every 1-2 hours, forcing their tolerance sky-high and making them need to put more and more of this nasty stuff into their body. you can find someone detail the myriad of health problems they developed from it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/researchchemicals/comments/4m0z0q/u47700_my_ultimate_guide_and_experiences/ "U-47700 has caused me WAY more health problems then even 10+ years of IV heroin use. I used u47 for only 3 months, it gave me- A heart murmur, 4 blood clots, damage from iv'ing in my hand causing partial numbness and difficulty/pain when tightly grasping things even now after 3 months off of it.... and when using it, "falling out" (technically overdosing) 5-10 times a day regularly. Insane respiratory depression and constant dances with death await for anyone who tries this drug." he is not alone, there are other reports of people having done alarming damage to themselves in only a few months of use. U-4 is just the latest in a long line of opioid analogs. there was MT-45, which made people's hair fall out, AH-7921, which wasn't very euphoric, there's ortho-desmethyltramadol which ironically might be the safest of all of them due to being a tramadol metabolite. u-4 is legal everywhere in the USA except ohio, and after it is banned there will simply be more new opioids developed, and i believe that they'd just get worse and worse with regards to overwhelming potency / dramatic health problems. people seem to fail to account, for example, the fact that when heroin is laced with "fentanyl," it isn't necessarily Fentanyl the prescribed drug, it can also be acetylfentanyl, furanylfentanyl, 4-fluorobutyrfentanyl... analogs that are usually a little less potent than their parent compound, but, seeing as how powerful fentanyl is, that doesn't make them a whole hell of a lot safer. megadosing loperamide is also becoming an issue now due to the effects of a megadose of it on the heart. narcan would probably not save someone from the cardiotoxicity of loperamide megadosing. http://www.innovationsincrm.com/car...amide-ingestion another large factor in this epidemic, IMO, is how many people got started with and then still request oxycodone. oxycodone is a fairly short high, you've mostly come back down only 4 hours after you've eaten it. i believe that shorter-acting opioids are more psychologically addictive, partially due to the mental roller coaster of being high then on the verge of being sick several times in a day. i believe that the best solution to this problem is to institute a system like what is available in switzerland, but i'm fairly sure none of us will live to see such a thing happen in the USA. sea of losers fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jun 12, 2016 |
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Jun 12, 2016 18:13
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The_Book_Of_Harry posted:Lyrica and neurontin are worthless in the junky community. oh come on harry they are not, if loperamide is worth something then gabapentin has to be
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Oct 19, 2016 22:36
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kratom's illegalization has been postponed for a few months but it's still in a legally precarious position. to clamp down on it like one would with other opioids would be a terrible idea, it has no recreational potential for addicts, it only keeps withdrawal symptoms at bay. it is an incredibly valuable tool and to ban it will only make staying sober harder for addicts using it to maintain or treat cravings. meanwhile u-47700 has been federally scheduled but new ones are already cropping up, u-49900 has appeared and user reports indicate very little if any opioid activity and possibly causes neurological damage. new legal fentanyl analogs like methoxyacetylfentanyl and tetrahydrofuranylfentanyl are still lethal, less euphoric, and last for only an hour or two before leaving the user in withdrawal. buy 'em on the clearnet in premade nasal spray bottles. carfentanil can still be had for less than $3000 per kilogram and can kill someone who is just in the same room as an open bag of it. people around me believe that suboxone is "just government drug dealing," and that people should only get one narcan revival before being left to die because "it wastes my tax dollars." the situation will probably continue to deteriorate for some time while politicians stick their fingers in their ears or act out of fear of being seen as "soft on crime." merry christmas sea of losers fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 11:34
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doesnt really seem like that to me...
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Dec 14, 2016 21:27
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wow holy poo poo this thread exploded. anyway KP3 my dude they dont use darvocet anymore. its gone. and all the tramadol ppl might be interested in o-desmethyltramadol. and people are going back and forth about what caused this epidemic. does it really matter? it could if you could prevent it in the future but the cat is out of the bag, and it will be because these drugs make people feel good. of course purdue hosed everyone by raking in billions by saying oxy was nonaddictive, and they get a slap on the wrist for ~15 years of this poo poo. what matters is dealing with it, and that involves making maintenance meds more available for everyone while providing therapeutic support to help ease them off if tthey want. god forbid that loving happens though.
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Feb 10, 2017 06:29
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The_Book_Of_Harry posted:Are novel opioids the next generation of anti-depressants? could this be referring to more of a kappa-opioid antagonism ala samidorphan/bupe combo instead of mu? i mean if they wanna investigate mu-opioid agonists as antidepressants just let ppl have some quality-controlled freaking heroin/whatever pleasurable thing lasts longer sea of losers fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Feb 27, 2017 |
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Feb 27, 2017 06:50
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perhaps the answer was.... in the middle... all along
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Feb 28, 2017 22:01
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BarbarianElephant posted:I used to think this. But when doctors chilled out slightly on prescribing opioids the numbers of addicts vastly increased. Legal access actually increased the number of addicts. are you referring to what happened in the US in the early 2000s with oxy, or something else? on another note honestly i think that people are going to do drugs if they want to do drugs and you should make it as safe as possible for them to do so. people wanted opioids before oxy happened and they want them now. switzerland has the right idea, im repeating myself, etc
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Apr 2, 2017 23:39
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BarbarianElephant posted:Since round about then until recently there has been a lot more prescription of opioids because of a shaky study that said people in pain don't get addicted. Turns out they do, and also if there's a lot of legal opiates floating around, there is more opportunity for them to get into the black market. yeah im aware of all that. part of it was the age-old tactic of claiming that oxy wasn't addictive. i agree that it was wrong to do. my view is that the toothpaste is out of the tube and we need to provide support, because no amount of crackdowns will put the paste back in.
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Apr 3, 2017 06:22
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also property crime would probably be cut down
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Apr 29, 2017 23:38
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if you're wondering, there is a more potent opioid antidote than naloxone, it's called diprenorphine and they sell it in kits along with the carfentanil for large animals. it is a weird drug, i believe it's a mixed-agonist-antagonist so while it will pull someone out of carfentanil death it may get an opioid-naive person high? not alot of data on its use.
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May 12, 2017 21:43
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perhaps one can have their kids if they have enough rapport in a methadone program to have take-home doses so they dont drag their kid to the clinic every day? this also demonstrates several months of passing drug tests and generally taking poo poo seriously and not using needles
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May 13, 2017 09:25
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tetrapyloctomy posted:There is part of me that would love for you overseas docs to come visit me at work to see what it's like here, but a larger part of me is just so embarrassed by how poorly Americans treat ... anyone who isn't themselves, really. hell you dont even need to be at a hospital to see it. free viewing everywhere
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May 13, 2017 23:02
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Rhandhali posted:The "super labs" are in the same places that legitimate fentanyl &c come from. Namely, China, India, etc. honestly i dont think that was the sole reason they went away like the DEA loves to say. benzodiazepines were becoming more commonplace, were safer, and fulfilled the same function that mandrax did, and i think that has more to do with it. ergotamine is heavily controlled but LSD still gets made.
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May 26, 2017 00:34
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Dmitri-9 posted:It's a drug problem until a package pops in a FedEx warehouse or someone decides to shake a flour bag over a sports stadium. Fentanyl in the meth supply should be a pretty big red flag. the point is that if we let addicts have their heroin safely none of them would want fent
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May 26, 2017 00:36
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Dmitri-9 posted:Well I'm totally in favor of heroin maintenance programs and decriminalizing all drugs but I think we can be even more proactive than that. i agree with you, but getting someone stabilized chemically has to happen before you start digging into their issues, ime
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May 26, 2017 04:31
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Lote posted:I don't think it's manufacture sloppiness. Almost all of the cocaine in the USA is now adulterated with levamisole - a drug that treats worms and parasites. Apparently it increases the cocaine high. This is happening when they make the drug. If there's cocaine or amphetamine sneaking in, it's probably to make the high bigger so you're more likely to get addicted. Hit that addiction pathway two ways instead of one. levamisole doesnot improve the effects of cocaine, it simply is much harder to detect as a cut than flour or inositol or baking soda or w/e
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May 26, 2017 23:08
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lol they're gonna try to solve this problem by banning opana. thats like solving the gun crisis by banning m249s
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Jun 9, 2017 04:50
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pangstrom posted:Doubt anyone anyone said that will solve this. solve was a strong word on my part but the idea that it will help very much is laughable
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Jun 9, 2017 17:32
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sooo more ppl will just move to oxy/dilaudid/heroin/fent/whatever. when i look at drug use sites i see that barely anyone is finding opana right now anyway. this will solve nothing.
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Jun 9, 2017 21:32
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also it shows how interested they are in "helping" when the oxymorphine IR is going to stay on the market. i'm sure it's less abusable than ER.
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Jun 10, 2017 18:12
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look, when you put it from the perspective of the fda clamping down on irresponsible marketing of pain medication, then yeah i agree its a win. i just dont think that further banning of drugs helps in the grand scheme of things. i suppose i can agree that this is a baby step towards something better. it was not my intention to be obtuse and i apologize if it came off that way if you want to look at something that could actually help alot, i've heard of canada granting suboxone prescription privileges to family doctors. that i believe could really do something positive. edit: i mean, if were looking to cut down on deaths, wouldnt buprenorphine be a good choice for prescribing for moderate-severe pain, at least as a first line? ppl already get it for that as butrans patches, and its supposed to have a roof on its effects and respiratory depression by virtue of it being a partial agonist. the only problem is the long half-life, but that might be better than short-acting drugs as it discourages redosing, as opposed to oxycodone sea of losers fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jun 10, 2017 |
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Jun 10, 2017 22:09
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funny thing about opanas bioavailability is that the exact same applies to dilaudid, hydromorphone. even if youarea legit patient its basically a waste to not at least snort those things.
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Jun 11, 2017 01:35
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PT6A posted:Of course there was addiction! Let's face it though, even severe alcoholism won't kill you that fast. I know a guy that drinks every morning and keeps going until he passes out, unless he runs out of booze first. He's 68, and though his mind is hosed and he can barely walk there's nothing that's going to physically kill him. well an illicit opioid habit is more dangerous than a legal alcohol habit because there is no consistency in quality or drugs used. in people and places where the dosage is kept consistent and clear like it is with alcohol (i.e., switzerland), one is much less likely to die from opioid use because they know exactly what theyre getting
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Jul 1, 2017 21:07
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yes, that is my opinion but it is also what the results of Switzerland's heroin maintenance program suggest
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Jul 1, 2017 22:01
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also u-47700 is illegal now and not very desired so it's probably going to fade away as current supply of it dwindles. the poo poo only lasts for an hour and is very very caustic. also also: p much no point in combining fent and heroin in one drug
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Jul 23, 2017 20:40
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OhFunny posted:Firstly: thank you for the informative breakdown. he was being a dick, but reading something calling a drug "grey death" and taking it at face value is the sort of thing that people are doing these days that leads to worthless zero-tolerance fear legislation
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Jul 24, 2017 08:12
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tetrapyloctomy posted:The point is portability for distribution, not end-user satisfaction. this is true but it just has me curious if there are vendors funneling all their u-4 into heroin bags or if they're still importing it from overseas. i would think they'd just go back to fent instead. btw if you haven't, do some searches around about u-47700 causticity, some of the experiences are terrifying
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Jul 24, 2017 08:14
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haha god that stuff was a tabloid rag reporter's wet dream
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Jul 24, 2017 08:41
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King Possum III posted:Suppositories? u-47700 is a strong, caustic, short-duration opioid (like 60min short) and people seem to rotate routes of administration to mitigate damage done to their various orifices. it doesn't end well, reports of making GBS threads blood / unknown discharge and also perforated septums in the nose, loss of ability to smell, some people report bad tinnitus and neurological damage such as pain in their hands. also it is apparently much more respiratorily-depressing than lots of other opioids. what a drug. one user claimed that doing u-4 for 6 months via IV injection had damaged his veins much worse than ten years of IV heroin sea of losers fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 20:07
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i figure his response will be to "get tough on crime," because it's worked so well before
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Aug 11, 2017 05:48
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trump didnt file the paperwork so no the opioid problem is not a national emergency
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Aug 30, 2017 17:55
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just logged onto a chinese RC source last night and saw methoxyacetylfentanyl being sold for ~$45/gram. poo poo isnt stopping anytime soon.
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Jan 24, 2018 13:59
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this derail about trump is stupid, maybe instead of that we could look at how the FDA is getting more negatively vocal about kratom, something that could actually help ppl but isnt particularly profitable
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Feb 8, 2018 21:51
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paternity suitor posted:I mean just go look at the TCC thread. I haven’t looked at it in years but it turned into junkies waiting for their UPS packages pretty quickly that was people waiting for FST, which was a superpotent (oxy-strength) tincture that was supposedly derived from kratom alkaloids but may have actually been research chemicals. plain leaf is nowhere near as addictive, it is more comparable to tylenol t3 than to oxycodone
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Feb 9, 2018 12:39
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fishmech posted:Why do you think a Pfizer or a Merck couldn't make kratom very profitable? they couldnt make the plant profitable. what they could do is make drugs derived from the alkaloids in kratom profitable. by the way, the scientist going all out against kratom is scott gottlieb, who has earned a bunch of money thru GSK and can't even find the 36 deadly cases he cites: https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/fda-evidence-of-claims-in-kratom-press-release-45861/
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Feb 9, 2018 12:44
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fishmech posted:Bullshit. We live in a world where tobacco companies still make tobacco itself profitable. tobacco isnt sold as a medicine.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:25
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fishmech posted:Why do you think that matters? because the laws regarding the sale of cigarettes/alcohol and selling prescription drugs are just slightly different, and also because only certain parts of kratom may be desirable. do you see pharma companies selling raw poppy straw instead of morphine, or weed instead of marinol? perhaps i was a little simplistic in my initial post, but my point is that if pharmaceutical companies profit off of kratom it will be through isolated chemicals or their derivatives, not the plant itself sea of losers fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 20:39
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perhaps i was a little simplistic in my initial post, but my point is that if pharmaceutical companies profit off of kratom it will be through isolated chemicals or their derivatives, not the plant itself. there are tons of active alkaloids in kratom and in opium poppy, and not all of them are medically desirable in opium and i seriously doubt all of them are desirable in kratom. thebaine, for instance, is in opium poppy and can be used to make other drugs but is a terrible drug by itself. and no, i don't believe kratom sales are currently done at a loss. what we've been talking about is specifically pharmaceutical companies selling i as prescription medicine, not anyone selling it as a legal high or whatever. you sound like someone who hasnt considered this. sea of losers fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 20:50
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fishmech posted:There is no reason they can't profit off just selling the leaves though. Besides you just randomly claiming they can't. i'm not "randomly claiming," i'm giving you reasons why they'd pursue chemical isolation or modification instead of selling raw leaf and yr just kinda ignoring it. what's a raw leaf product sold by a pharmaceutical company that you can think of off the top of yr head? do they sell tree bark instead of aspirin? plain leaf kratom has some concerns regarding hepatotoxicity surrounding it, there's another reason
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Feb 9, 2018 21:27
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