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Cool thread, cool pictures. I did HVAC and electrical straight out of high school for 4 years. Learned a lot that has saved me a pile of money over the years. So when is somebody going to make a residential geothermal package unit for exterior installations? I'm definitely in the market if one exists. It seems like an obvious solution, not everyone has a basement or mechanical room. I don't want to stick it in the crawlspace, probably wouldn't fit anyway and too hard to service.
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Jan 27, 2016 22:24
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Same. My impression was that they were a good simple, reliable unit.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:01
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I'm surprised to see as many HVAC knowledgeable persons in here using a nest tstat at their home. I get the advantage for the "set it and let it work" ability to get some efficiency/comfort for the average homeowner.... Is there some other advantage it has over my 7-day programmed tstat? I know it has an occupancy sensor, but rarely do I want it to run outside of normal schedule based on occupancy.
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Apr 14, 2016 22:48
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I can absolutely see the advantage in your case. Interesting about the way it is able to keep it within range with your 1st stage heat. I didn't think about that... My Honeywell tstat is advertised as having algorithms and adjusting "on" time to hit your setpoint, but clearly it's nowhere near the accuracy of the nest. I just accepted the occasional "dumb" activity of the tstat as the way it is. Mostly it gets especially confused when you have daily wide temperature swings in the spring/fall. Often I just turn it off this time of year.
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Apr 15, 2016 04:19
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I think we're on the same page with that? That's why I was surprised to see so many in here that seemed to use it (and you in particular, but I didn't know your specific usage). I suppose it makes sense when I've recommended a (dumb) programmable thermostat to everyone when it's come up, and I know exactly no one who has acted on it. I'm sure it's far more efficient than leaving the temp at your comfort zone all the time, like so many people do.
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Apr 15, 2016 22:21
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Motronic posted:I've got a regular old programmable t-stat in the house. I don't see the value in putting a nest in there because it's a pretty regular schedule. I set it once a few years ago and.......well, that's all. It just does what it's supposed to. The one thing I think a programmable tsat could use, is an outside temp sensor. I know some have it just so it can display outdoor temp on the tstat, but afaik none of them incorporate the information into its operational threshold. If I'm wrong about that, somebody let me know, cause I'd install one.
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Apr 16, 2016 03:50
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Yeah, I was thinking mainly of days where we have wide temperature swings, and the tstat has the unit unnecessarily running in heat at the recovery time. Yes, it's something I can turn off myself, but you could say that about every programmed tstat function.
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Apr 17, 2016 05:07
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Nitrox posted:Sup, thread From the OSHA thread, if anyone doesn't follow it.
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Jul 10, 2016 19:10
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Motronic posted:Only if it's a gas unit. Actually, I take that back......I suppose on a pure heat pump that on some units you could have the electric resistance coils (emergency heat) running along with AC. Anyhow my point is that the unit does probably has electric 2nd stage heat and it is possible to run both at the same time. But I doubt you would cool off at all in mid- summer like this, if that were the case? My suspicion is that the building is poorly insulated, possibly a metal strip mall style structure in full sun with a bank of windows up front, and the change to an 85°F unoccupied setting happened at the same time that the outside temp is getting higher and holding until later at night. I would recommend holding at 76° like you had it for one day, see how it performs, and if it holds, then bump the unoccupied temp up by 1° every day until you find out what it can recover from.
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Jul 18, 2016 00:44
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Could be something as simple as dirty coils. Is the condenser located on the roof of the warehouse, or above your office but inside the larger warehouse structure?
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Jul 18, 2016 02:12
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chedemefedeme posted:I was simply trying to ask if the system needs to be checked. 50% duty cycle to maintain 85 degrees inside when it is dark out can't be normal?
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Jul 18, 2016 11:33
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I'd just call around and see what a service call costs, although they may sell a "tune- up" special, which usually includes cleaning the coils and some other stuff. Cost is very dependent on area, but I think a service call is gonna be about $100.
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Jul 18, 2016 18:56
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You definitely do not want to bury an inaccessible drain field and condensate line under the pad....I think that would make you an rear end in a top hat previous owner, lol. Whatever you do, the end of the line needs to be accessible for clean out.
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Jul 19, 2016 00:26
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It would be some poo poo if he actually did land the strip heat 24v wire wrong on the tstat and it's been running this whole time.
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Jul 20, 2016 12:55
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JimbobDobalina posted:Good point. I'll drop the pipe into a couple of potted plants for now, and if they get waterlogged I'll have to come up with a better plan. How far away from the edge of a concrete pad is it ok to have the drain so that the moisture doesn't damage the concrete?
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Jul 20, 2016 22:04
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Clearly what we need is more expensive electricity.Zhentar posted:Oh! I forgot about heat pump water heaters. Same concept, except the "air conditioner" is built into the water heater, so you bypass the added engineering & installation overhead costs, so it ends up being more cost effective even though you double up on compressors & heat exchangers. I have one, from back when Obama was still handing out energy credits for them, and have been very happy with it. The big deal with these is you need the right climate and installation location. Like, my ac runs most of the year anyway, and it's in a conditioned area of the house. angryrobots fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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Aug 16, 2016 20:06
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Hey hvac thread, quick sanity check before I crawl under the house. Air handler blower fan is behaving as if it has a bad connection...starts up fine but during operation I can hear it cutting out and slowing down intermittently. No dimming lights in the house or anything to indicate poor service voltage, condenser hums along just fine. Assuming I have a bad connection somewhere...It also has a time delay relay in the handler that holds the blower fan on for about 30 sec after the tstst is satisfied, could that be the culprit? I'll start at the breaker panel first...any other ideas before I head into the hole? angryrobots fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Oct 15, 2016 |
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Oct 15, 2016 15:59
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Double post wtf
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Oct 15, 2016 16:01
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Good idea, worth a shot but no dice. Still misbehaving.
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Oct 15, 2016 16:56
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Will do, whatever is going on actually failed open during operation earlier, so I turned it off. Hopefully it stays broken so it's easy to find tomorrow.
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Oct 16, 2016 04:58
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Well I found the problem at hand: Which was easily repaired, but uncovered the larger issue that my condensate pump did not survive the heavy rain from hurricane Matthew last week, and besides going inop the built in float switch was not working to break 24v to the condenser. I suppose the swelling groundwater combined with no power worked together to soak it without giving it the chance to bail itself out. Removed all that crap and got it back going for now draining on the ground, will install new pump tomorrow along with a new p trap with the goal of raising it up as much as possible. Long term what I really need is to rip out the split system and install a package unit with new ductwork hugging the joists. For now try to patch this bullshit until a later date.
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Oct 16, 2016 19:33
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It acted up again  So I pulled the tstat and measured at 28v. Jumped out the fan terminal, fan started to run and almost immediately kicked out, I removed the jumper but the time delay (built into air handler controls) tried to keep it going, I could hear something humming even though fan was not spinning. Voltage still holding at 28v at the tstat even during the failure so I think transformer is ok. Acts up even after tstat stops calling so I don't think it's in the tstat circuit. I guess tomorrow when I crawl my rear end back under there with the new pump I'll dig into it some more, but I'm guessing either the fan relay or time delay board (if so equipped, didn't see one) is toast.
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Oct 17, 2016 01:59
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Kind of an echo chamber, but here's where I'm at. Checked all connections again, looked at wiring diagram and realized that I have a Carrier air handler that has electronic controls built into the blower. Great. I double checked that it's harness was plugged in and ohmed out all the pins to eliminate a wiring problem. Moved the speed control from medium to high just to say I changed something. Buttoned up and turned on fan at tstat. Started, then kicked out and started humming sound. At this point I'm pretty annoyed so I just let it sit there humming, and angrily searched Google for an answer. I quickly found that these ECM blowers are a point of consternation for many, with solutions varying from the official >$1000 complete unit from carrier, a $234 ECM (mine is the newer x13 model), or a generic regular motor plus a contactor. At this time, the fan suddenly kicked on and held normal speed. I let it hold for about 5 minutes then kicked the a/c on and turned it way down. Pulled the house from almost 80 to 72, then shut it down. Let it sit for a few minutes, then kicked the fan on...It bucked a couple times then came up to speed and held. Well it's certainly not "fixed" but if I can run it while supervising (don't want to freeze the evap coil if it decides to stop working), that will buy me a couple days to figure something out. Clearly I prefer the simple solution if I can find the right standard motor to fit.
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Oct 18, 2016 04:34
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MRC48B posted:
Anyhow I ordered the module, hopefully that gets me back going for a while.
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Oct 18, 2016 12:18
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Well ac is kicking again, condensate pump is pumping. About to drop 10k on a new roof, hopefully I can keep patching this horribly installed system for a year or two until I can afford a new package unit and new ductwork. Edit: also is there any rule of thumb, or back of napkin math or whatever (that doesn't involve me crawling around measuring ductwork) to figure what speed setting I should select on the ECM? It came from the factory at 'medium' and seemed to work well, so I put it back there. angryrobots fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Oct 21, 2016 |
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Oct 21, 2016 02:59
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Re: dehumidifying on cold, damp days. What if you essentially forced defrost mode on the system? Ran the a/c with the backup heat at the same time, for a short period of time? Would that work, and what would be the most user friendly way to implement if so?
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Nov 30, 2016 23:06
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Thanks for the dehumidification brief. So I have a room in my shop that was an office/bathroom, that I wish to convert into a guest apartment. Currently it has an inop package unit, and the duct work for said unit takes up most of the roof space, which would make a very useful storage area/mezzanine. The room is 224 ft², is there any reason I shouldn't just rip all that crap out and install a 9000 btu mini split? There's a 22 seer Sharp complete install kit on eBay with line set and pre-charged unit for $817 shipped, and that seems like a great deal to me.
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Dec 5, 2016 20:54
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Sounds like you need good ceiling fans?
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Jan 25, 2017 00:27
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devicenull posted:Thanks! We're currently getting quotes for air sealing + blown in insulation in the attic. We have what's original to the house (from the 60s), where it's present at all... a bunch of it got removed due to water damage or terrible decay. I'm still waiting on the results of the energy audit. Even if it's cheaper to run, you are used to the high vent temps of gas heat, and your comfort level is going to noticeably drop at best. At worst, the heat pump rarely keeps up and you're burning 10kW+ heat strips all of the time. -NG is probably going to be relatively stable in price. Electricity is a changing market, and utilities are moving to demand rate structures which may or may not work out in favor of a heat pump, either. -The federal credits for solar have/are drying up. Utilities have little reason to incentivize it on their own. This is a discussion on its own, but the economics of solar are only edge-case favorable now and unlikely to improve in the near future. I wouldn't bank on a heat pump on the assumption it'll pay off even more with 'free' energy later.
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Jan 25, 2017 02:43
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coyo7e posted:I would like to object, here. Do you have experience in Commercial HVAC (I'm not saying did you "instal AC professionally at any point" - but rather asking if you "worked on large commercial/industrial structures with non-residential usage patterns, or at least have studied it, fluid dynamics, etc"), or utilities and how they operate (pricing-wise, demand-wise, peaks, assumed loads, whatnot), and do you have any experience installing and utilizing solar, using inverters to push power back to the grid, etc? No, I'm in the utility power business, and my comments on solar were in direct reply to the poster intending to generate at the hobbyist/residential level as a reason to go from gas heat to electric. They were not intended as a sweeping rebuke of solar in all situations, and that's a derail I'm not trying to start. I am pretty familiar with how utilities operate, and their (non PR) opinion on solar. I think maybe that should be a thread of its own, cause I know exactly what you mean about that a/t thread.
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Jan 25, 2017 03:48
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coyo7e posted:HVAC techs are almost always some redneck who thinks "engineers make his life harder.".
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Feb 19, 2017 13:48
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There's also portable ac units, which also would be even less obtrusive, you probably couldn't see the window kit from downstairs at all, and no dripping on your neighbor.
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Mar 19, 2017 15:48
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So recently found out that my electric co-op is offering a $500 credit for installing a "dual-fuel" electric and gas hvac unit. The ones that are basically an electric heat pump, but instead of heat strips they have gas for backup heat/2nd stage. I dunno how new these are, but I've been out of the loop or uninformed about them until recently. I was planning to install a gas pack anyhow, because my heat pump is pretty ineffective when we have an actual cold snap for an extended period (SC, so mild winter with swings to cold) My house is only 1980's level insulated, and two vaulted ceilings to lose heat in. I figured the higher vent temps would help the comfort level. Then when I have a propane tank, I'll also install a gas backup generator. Anyhow, this dual fuel sounds ideal for me. Cheap electric heat pump to handle 90% of our mild winter, and gas for the other 10%. Do they work as well as I'm imagining?
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Apr 7, 2017 23:22
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Yu-Gi-Ho! posted:They're even making water heaters that use a heat pump now. What can I say, sc lags behind everybody else. Thanks for the info, I'll plan on budgeting for it.
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Apr 9, 2017 14:25
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I've seen on This Old House where the geothermal loop was also tied to in-floor whole house heating, and the water heater. They had one of those utility rooms with tons of pumps and mixing valves and a framed single line diagram on the wall. Maybe that's the kind of integrated system he's talking about?
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Jun 1, 2017 13:00
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Those mini splits get flared fittings right? You have me thinking seriously about installing one of those in my detached apartment, but I guess I'll have to get a tech out to terminate the lines and start up.
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Jun 13, 2017 02:22
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That's interesting. If you manage to fit the 25' line set without cutting it, is it factory flared on all ends? I'm assuming or thinking the mini splits use their own proprietary-ish line set that comes with the units? I have no issue with buying a vacuum pump, hell I could probably borrow one from somebody.
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Jun 13, 2017 04:53
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Lol. Post all your notes, I'll probably copycat you on my install.
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Jul 8, 2017 23:53
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Well keep your service guys number handy then. Nothing wrong with that either!
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Jul 22, 2017 21:05
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They can inject spray foam into the stud bays without tearing the wall apart. You may be able to get assistance from a DoE program for home weatherization http://www.waptac.org/Grantee-Contacts.aspx
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Dec 31, 2017 15:31
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