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foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Tyty posted:

Yo when I wanna play lane Nunu and show people the hell of 2 second snowballs do I go top or mid with him? I'm thinking top where I can be an annoying piece of poo poo who never leaves lane but ganks and toplane in general are scary to me.

Top lane -- it's scarier to get snowballed every 2 seconds while you're trying to run away from a gank than it is to be snowballing someone every 2 seconds while you're trying to run away from a gank.

Also if you're on red side you can pop a zzrot behind your T1 and it's untargetable.

Really though, imo Nunu should be in the jungle to be truly effective, but vOv.

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foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
I've always felt like Nunu jungle is strongesy between 25-35 minutes; earlier and denying the enemy jungler/objective takes usually haven't led to a win yet, and afterwards you're late game Nunu; not bad, but with less game-winning objective cheese available and more reliant on buffing/peeling your adc to a win.

E: hopefully he's just strong all the time now though, Nunu's definitely one of my favorite junglers.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Arrgytehpirate posted:

Blood Moon or Silverfang Akali?

Pool Party or Muay Thai Lee SIn?

Blood Moon, Pool Party.

Although the best Akali skin is Headhunter.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
You can also q to them and cast the r at point blank during the jump, which is basically a guaranteed hit, but it's really hard to get right so worth practicing, but definitely not just starting out.

Basically, q, move your mouse behind them or you'll throw short, and ult while in midair.

When ulting at range, aim in a line that ends behind your target but intersects with them/where they're likely to run rather than on them. Much easier to hit that way.

foutre fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Jan 31, 2016

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Coco Rodreguiz posted:

I just bought Brand. What's the secret to Brand? In all his positions. Do I just go hard or go home? :kingsley:

His ult is bugged at the moment, until you get it to level 2 it usually doesn't bounce properly, or at all. Before it over-prioritized champs, now it prioritizes fizzling out.

Wait till the fix to play him imo, he's otherwise strong and fun but that poo poo's backbreaking for him.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Tired Moritz posted:

people should play zilean more!!!!!!!!!!!

NRG just beat TSM 19-0 with a Seraphs/RoA/Banner Zilean mid, I think that it's a safe bet you'll see at least a few more Zileans in solo queue.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Sexpansion posted:

Warlord's bloodlust, right?

Oh poo poo, that makes a lot of sense, yeah.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:


:whatup:

foutre fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Feb 3, 2016

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
Re: Udyr chat, I was checking what to ban. Turns out Udyr has a 58% win rate right now in plat, 57% in gold. Drops off in dia+, but holy gently caress, I knew he was strong in solo q atm but didn't think it was that extreme.

E: wait, no it's above 57% in diamond too, the lowest he goes is 54% in bronze. Interesting that his win rate goes down in low elo, but more importantly, wtf.

High pick rates at all elos too. Jesus.

foutre fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Feb 4, 2016

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
Placed into Plat 5 from Plat 3 off of a 6-4 W/L in placements.

I started 1-4, and was legitimately concerned about placing into silver, but went on a huge streak instead. Don't think my mmr's high enough to skip Plat 4 this time around, but hey. Courtesy of Mikujin I'm in Maokai's Crushers, no reason to hurry to get out with a name that badass.

Also, in my 2nd to last placement, got carried pretty hard by Lapaka, of season 2 Curse fame. Turns out that at the moment he is hanging out in Plat, playing a mean counterjungle TF.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
On champ.gg, Amumu's highest win rate build involves Ohmwrecker 5th item.

The world is a good place (and on top of that, the highest Win rate Udyr build has a zzrot, which imo is less surprising but also great).

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

mirrorquiz posted:

So I've begun my 150 games of losing with Thresh before I'm not a complete embarrasment. Champion.gg shows people maxing flay but that doesn't lower the cd, is it just for more all in damage and easier relic procs? Also what boots? Thanks Thresh gods.

3 points in Flay, then max q gives damage for lane and then cd for teamfights, I think swifties are just the best at the moment.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Elpato posted:

You're so quick to assume I'm a selfish player. My main supports are Bard and Nami. I'm almost always queued as ______ and support, because I like the role so much. I'm generally a big nuisance/rear end in a top hat to my opponents in the form of poke and CC while never taking CS or trying to "carry" as you put it. However, I decided to take my "be a dick to the enemy lane" one step further and just burn it all down. Lux has been super successful at doing so. I always get at least two support items (such as sightstone and frost queen's), and I never try to dick my carry over. I'm not shy about getting kills when they're uncertain though.

Lux is so good right now, I'm not surprised she can do her job when behind on gold.

You should try Vel'koz as well, he can 100-0 the other laner at any point past 6, and has lower mana costs and better base damage with AP!

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

NTT posted:

I've decided to play lots of bard in addition to my talon


Ootay

A good choice. Bard is also legitimately strong at the moment, aside from being the chillest champ in the game to play.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
One of the top 10 most popular supports!

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Arrgytehpirate posted:

So what you're saying is if I'm still godawful near the end of the year I should buy boosting to gold? What skins have been given away? What is this seasons?

They don't announce them till later, but so far it's been Jarvan/Janna/Elise/Morg/Sivir.

In low gold at the beginning of each new season you'll see a bunch of victorious champs losing games as people try out their skins.

e: I think there's a Fiora/Kanye/Faker reference in Blood on the Leaves somewhere, but idk what it is.

e2: No More Parties in Top Lane

foutre fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Feb 10, 2016

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
I'd hesitate to draw any conclusions from that game, although I'm sure Xin is good.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
I actually really like Dominion for trying out new champs and getting a handle on their mechanics/skirmishing in a format where I don't have to devote as much time.

Without it there really isn't a good, low time investment way to play a specific champ and learn them versus other people outside of threes, which for me really isn't as fun/favors specific champs too much imo.

I also enjoyed the way Dominion played just in general, with cap points rather than stationary objectives, and imo more room for comebacks...

drat.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

ImpAtom posted:

They did a fair few things to it and for a while they were updating champions alongside Dominion and even doing Champion Spotlights that showed their Dominion capabilities as well. It wasn't very popular except at launch. It isn't a case of resources. If they thought they could make money off Dominion you better believe they'd keep it around.

It actually developed a competitive tournament scene that got pretty big, but then they refused to turn on ranked until vague targets were met because they wanted to keep it casual, but then revealed they actually had no idea how to do ranked when it was clear there was demand for it.

For 6 months, the draft mode had a bug where there was no dodge timer, so when people didn't like their comp, they just dodged. Despite tons of forum posts etc., it took the guy who ran the weekly tournaments emailing them for them to fix it; apparently they somehow hadn't heard about it despite community outcry.

These things along with the lack of balance updates while it was popular meant that it lost players, and by the time they gave it nominal support they'd already alienated most of the player base and the competitive scene pretty much completely died.

It was a good game mode, and it absolutely filled the niche of fast, team-fight focused games where you could choose a champion that neither ARAM nor SR fill (3s imo doesn't really fit the same bill either).
Riot mismanaged it into the ground, and now I'm sure it's more of a liability with bot farming. It should have, and could have, been successful.

Also, it sounds like from their release that 3s might be on the chopping block as well. It does kind of seem like post S3, except for ARAM, the alternative modes have kind of been petering off.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
Duskblade Shaco is loving absurd. I tried a full burst Warrior/Hydra/Duskblade/Shiv/IE build in a smurf game earlier.

At one point I killed Graves and TF with 2 simultaneous procs after r clickng the TF.

I think it means that the burst Shaco build will probably be even more cemented as most prevalent (i.e. Shiv/Hydra/IE etc), although the simultaneous double proc dream scenario can be hard to pull off outside of 1v1s in practice.

In the normal pattern of q in, auto/hydra/e, ult to avoid an ability, and then another rotation it adds a really solid amount of burst in the 2nd half that can really punish people overextending into the clone.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Tequila Sunrise posted:

Whe exactly do i Zhonya's a Zed Ult for best effect? I see that fucker every game now. Do i wanna do it right when the "X" hits to avoid the most damage?

Right after it pops, before he hits you with abilities. If you can delay at all you can also block the 300ish base damage, but that's less significant. The thing about Zhonyaing Zed ult, is that if you do it just after you're probably also blocking 2 shurkens and an e as well.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

rabidsquid posted:

Yes I think putting a dash onto an aoe damage taunt ult would probably be a bit much

Kalista + Galio, you heard it here first.

Or maybe Libertine has already done that, idk.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Dr. Video Games 0150 posted:

You'll know you have reached decent mmr when after your team takes first inhibitor they back or take another objective and don't suicide to nexus turrets. This is about mid platinum

I just had two teammates take the middle inhib, rotate and take the top tower, and then, with everyone on the enemy team up again, dive another inhib tower to try and kill the support, fail, and then die.
In the ensuing 3v5, the enemy team tried to take baron but missed the smite, lost it, and then got steamrolled.
But not before my baroned up jungler died trying to steal blue buff while we pushed top (we were blue side, so the buff was the opposite side of the map).

This was at plat 4, with an average mmr around Plat 2/3, and 3/5 members of my team were mid/low Diamond last season.
It never ends, there will always be new and exciting mistakes. And the same mistakes.

This world is hell.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Servaetes posted:

Yeah. I swore that Flamespitter had massive penalties to monsters and minions and maybe they removed it, which explains the extremely effective clear

it's been at least a good year or so since i played Rumble consistently though but I'm like so very sure there was a penalty associated

There was. They also nerfed him in lane and that plus the flamespitter changes (doubled ticks, harder to kite/control last hitting) and his increased ult cd hosed him. He can't lane bully anymore, basically, but now can clear really well and out of the jungle the ult is still solid.

RealFoxy posted:

It was played in Korea, it got popular elsewhere. The idea is that his clear is so good now and his ultimate is on such a low cooldown that he's got pretty strong ganks all game and does a decent amount of damage, too.

Papa Smithy, noted OGN caster, one tricked his way to Diamond in Korea with jungle Rumble.

foutre fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Feb 19, 2016

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
Don't go RoA (slow/wasted stats, and you want Rylais etc. too badly), but otherwise you're on the right track.

Echoes with ward smite into Sorcs generally, with alacrity later on -- you probably won't need a combat smite for ganks, and the wards are really strong. From there, Rylais is core and Zhonyas is often good, but Abyssal is a solid tank item as well (instead of RoA) and Liandries is solid for damage.

He works really well with pick/teamfight comp -- on my 5s team we run him with stuff like Lux/Naut/Braum, has solid ganks but excels at jungle fights and generally fighting around his ult cd. You will need tanks elsewhere, but if you can get a comp with him rolling it's really strong.

e: Also, you can do the level 6 at 6 minutes power farm cheese, a la Diana, if your comp allows -- it's easy to get ahead by powerfarming IF your lanes are ok and then force a fight.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
^^^^ I mean, to climb, that's good advice (and I mean, poo poo, look at Adrian, he's mostly Soraka/Janna and is in the LCS). I think one or two perennial good champs that can fit different roles would be good to work in to become a Good High Elo Support -- i.e., Alistar, Morgana, Thresh, etc.

kingcobweb posted:

Long-term question for y'all

I post a lot in this thread about support, because I've realized I'm a pretty good support player! Yesterday I was plat 3 before I was so unjustly demoted like 5 games after ranking up to that (something about "losing"). I basically only play Janna: http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=KillGoldfish

I wanna hit diamond this season. Should I put effort into learning other champs? I've played hundreds of Leona games, picked up Alistar over the last 6 months, but no matter what I also go around 50% on non-Janna champs and 60% as Janna.

Do I just continue to play nothing but Janna until I die of boredom? If I actually want to be A Good High-Elo Support, when should I try to learn other stuff?

Wish I had the $ for coaching :(

I'm in a sort of similar situation (plat support looking to get to diamond, historically I've had a few picks that way outperform my other ones), and have been working on figuring this stuff out. I'm obviously not diamond or whatever, but I have some ideas and would be down to talk about it at some point if you want -- I'm "pls no bm" on NA.

I'd also be down to look at replays and whatnot if you like -- it can always help to have a second set of eyes.

e: Also, re: Galio ulti talk, if you play HotS there's a hero, ETC, who has Galio Ulti (with a cast delay), a dash backed into his kit, and the ability, at max level, to spec so that he can dash once during his ulti as well. Dl it and live the dream!

foutre fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Feb 20, 2016

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Kashuno posted:

Runic Echoes Tiger Udyr. There's no god in bronze.

Except for Udyr. Run him in any elo, he is straight up broken right now.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

GenericGirlName posted:

ShardInspector is my IGN :O! I'll be glad to have more goons to play with, but I should probably just start playing as something with more pushing power than nami or build more AP mid/late game on nami to pull myself out of bronze : (

Build Banner of Command on AP supports if you need the pushing power; I don't think Nami is the best as a carry support -- she's very good at laning, and has great cc, but doesn't scale as well imo. I'd suggest Morgana for a more traditional support that can scale really well off of AP while peeling well. Other good options for aggro supports that can build carry are Vel'koz, Zyra, and Brand, each of which can build Banner/push well independently. My impression is that bronze games go on forever, and any of those 3 can get huge picks/teamfight wins later game with items.

I'm personally a fan of Bard to carry; Zzz'rot and Banner are very legitimate on him, he does a ton of damage andcan roam to snowball the game really easily.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
Today in a tourney match I solo killed a s5 Masters Ahri with cleanse Lux at level 4. Then went 4-6 while they went 9-1, but poo poo, I had my moment of glory.

Zerilan posted:

These are the kinds of games that make me real tempted to pick up Bard and then probably gently caress over my team continuously with bad ults.

He actually doesn't have that high of a skill floor if you don't get too ambitious with him -- basic picks/tower dive etc. ultis are pretty straightforward, but when you do it in teamfights/cross-map/defensively poo poo gets dicey.

He's incredibly satisfying to play and learn -- he's the only champ I've actually gotten to mastery 5 on, and it's impossible to feel bad even in losing games, cuz you're Bard.

So much stuff to learn!

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Gridlocked posted:

A mate and I have been practicing some normals with him on Koggles and me on Nauto Supporto and we are dominating pretty much any match-up.

Preparing to use it to buy some Freelo it's that spicy right now. Even better because we both suck rear end and are in the lower silver bracket if we can just pull of some strong kills the other team will actually just rage-surrender at 20 and stop us having to actually play the game. I reckon that's that real strategy fro climbing the Silver ladder: just make their first 20min hell so that they quit rather then force you to actually play.

Also try Braum -- his passive gets procced almost instantly by Kog and he does a better job enabling the "sit still" kog playstyle late game, but you can't go wrong with either and Naut's probably the better early game option (or, honestly, anything with Kog).

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

BigLeafyTree posted:

What is it exactly that they changed that made things snowball so hard every game?

All of season 6 was targeted towards that; weaker towers, longer death timers earlier, minions shove harder on their own when you're winning, more damage in masteries (maybe unintentional) means easier kills, and so on.

Ironically, it means that in pro games people tend to play very scared and avoid fighting, leading to long and boring games which was kind of the opposite of their goal.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
Leave up a small golem at each camp so the enemy jungler can't steal your buffs on respawn.

#mindgamed

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Arrgytehpirate posted:

Why would I buy a pink ward unless I'm facing someone like Akali or Shaco? They are visible and I already have three wards from Sightstone.

Also, Eye of the Equinox is pretty much always better than FotM, so you should have 4 wards! And that gives you an extra slot for pinks late.

And yeah, especially as Naut denying vision is huge. Also, hard to take objectives when they have vision!

In a 30 minute game you placed 14 wards and killed 5, bought no pinks etc. As a point of comparison, in a similar length game, I generally place closer to 40 wards and deny ~10 or 15, just at a plat level. You should always be placing wards to prep for objectives mid/late, and during lane you should be warding your lane, the dragon when necessary, and coordinate with your solo/jg to ward mid as well.

Some things to do with pinks:

1) on blue side during lane, but them in your tri, closer to your tower. When the enemy contests the pink, call your jungler (basically, if they spot it) and have them gank for free kills.
2) ward the bush to the side of your mid laner, between mid and bot, to give them free roams (in conjunction with sweeping river) and protect them from ganks.
3) ward dragon/baron so that the enemy team doesn't know if you're doing it, so you can either take it safely or so you can stack in a bush and bait them in.
4) drop one in a lane bush so that your jungler can sneak in and gank from lane for you
5) drop it in a bush near mid so you can roam up
6) place it in approaches to objectives, especially the bush over dragon wall, over baron wall, and the banana bush so that your opponents can't get to them safely.

and so on and so forth! Pink wards are incredibly powerful, and you should be buying them every back. At the end of the day, a 6th support item late game is going to make a lot less of a difference than getting the initiative and being able to burst someone from fog of war (especially as Naut or blitz).

In general with warding you want to be getting deep wards into the enemy jungle to facilitate invades/tower pushes and catch people in the jungle as they rotate from one lane to another, as well as warding defensively and to give your team a vision line as they push. Wards are absolutely an offensive tool as well as defensive, especially when you're playing a support with strong pick like Naut or Blitz.

I've got half an hour free, so I'll look over your replay real quick and see if I can give some feedback. Support's really fun imo, and it's how I climbed out of silver way back when! It's also a role that changes a lot as you learn more about the game and get better, and figure out roam timings/how to play the macro game, on top of fighting and what not. A lot of responsibility/cooperation required, but played well you can really have an enormous impact.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Arrgytehpirate posted:

40+ wards seems like so many. I'll start giving pinks a try and try and remember to constantly refresh my sightstone wards. 14 is a long way from 40.

Yeah, 40 could probably be toned down if I were a bit more efficient, but they're a renewable resource so if you have a back timing anyway, may as well get vision first! Also, wards cleared is an important number as well, always try and sweep when it's up.

e: Also, one thing I've been working on is, during the milling about periods pre-objectives, going back more often to refresh SS even if I don't have a big purchase, without doing so the lack of vision limits your playmaking more than backing.

Also, i started writing words about your win that ended up just being 5 minutes of comments, but maybe it'll help a bit:

So, pre minions spawning, stand in the river so you can see both jungle entrances, either in the bush to the left of dragon pit or just in front of the blue buff. Standing in your tri you give them a ton of routes to invade -- where you guys were standing they could have done any number of simple invades -- one standard one is walking down mid lane to the bush, then coming in from the left, through the banana bush and into the bush between blue and gromp. Where you guys were, they could have gotten there and killed you/kindred/blown SS for free. Always make sure that you're doing something early!

Also, for runes you might consider flat hp instead of ap or mpen (I'm not quite sure what your runes are); you probably don't want to rune for damage on Naut. If it's a 2 rune page thing, then go ahead though.

1:40, Kindred is late, which sucks, but try not to tank Gromp. Let Ashe kite it, hit it once so it's stunned while using your w to absorb damage, and then go to lane. It'll get you there faster to push for level 2 (which you want to do ASAP!) and let you contest your lane better at level 1/2, which can make or break a lane.

At 2 minutes, they should have been able to punish you for going for cs with their minion lead, and forced you to wait for a wave (which wouldn't have denied you any cs), but instead they back up and let you get you relic procs off. At this point you can probably auto the wave and shove back safely, using the lane bush to manage minion aggro. They have an exhaust, but no flash on Maokai and no heal on Ez so you have the advantage in a fight.

At 2:18, the 2nd wave hits and Maokai just uses his e, and they won't hit 2 for a few more minions. They have no cc, you should walk up and hit them with your passive/w -- ez has no essence shift and Maokai has no flash, so you can either get a solid trade or at least contest level 2.

2:32 ish -- don't stand behind your adc! stand up with the minions and threaten damage/cc to give her space to farm, and punish them for not choosing any cc early and going silly summoners. Your role is to give space for your adc, and enable trades, which you can't do positioned back.

2:38 Ashe does a dumb thing, tanking abilities and minions for no reason, but it's probably correct to help with shield and body block while she gets to a less terrible spot. Ez went up too far, still doesn't have e, and you could have walked up, tanked sapling with shield, and forced him to either fight in your minion line or back off, as well as saved a lot of hp on your Ashe.

2:48, you go for a hook on Maokai, which you luckily miss. Your Ashe is at 200 hp, and you're positioning yourself so you won't get minion suport, but the Ez can jump on your Ashe if he wants to, or collapse on you 2v1 and just kill you while your Ashe hangs back with no hp. There were good points to go in earlier, but that one would have ended poorly (especially because, even if they backed up, you would have lost the trade off of minion aggro either way). Don't engage into big minion waves! All that said, IF he's out of position no flash maokai is definitely an easy target, but ideally you would do that when your Ashe could respond and Ez didn't have an easy angle to q/auto.

3:10 -- stand in front of your Ashe -- Ezreal was behind your minions, and if you cc'd him with an auto he wouldn't have been able to chunk her and she could have gotten off a decent trade before retreating (your role would have been to auto w auto and back up tanking with shield before minions joined the fight). You start doing a good job bodyblocking here, but you also want to get some return damage, you should never give free trades (or put yourself in a position, i.e. in a big enemy minion wave, where you have to take them. Aside from this, sapling spam/Ez auto spam will shove it into tower either way, so an alternative is to just sit back at tower and let them shove it in since they aren't denying anyway.

4:04 -- the ez should be dead here, or at least forced to flash. He is oom so he won't be able to q, he just used his e, and your auto - side step - q leaves him stunned under tower. Maokai has no w. You have the right idea, but instead of e'ing first, q immediately, then auto and e (which will still probably hit him with a few procs when he backs up) and he is pretty much dead/down a flash. Ashe has her q up, he can't hit her through you, etc. etc. Still a good trade, but could have been even better!

4:30 -- you went up a bit early -- after playing back the whole game that was a pretty telegraphed "there is a gank coming" move. Given that there was a ward (which, incidentally, it helps to time in chat for yourself/your jungler -- 1 minute on the trinkets, and you can usually tell when the opponent places them) the gank would have been iffy, but if you'd baited an all-in kindred could have perhaps gotten there.

Instead, you get a solid hook, but then don't quite follow it up.

When you sweep the busha bit before 4:30, walk up to the end of the brush and q the ezreal -- he needs 60 more mana for his e, and your q - auto - w - auto - e would have probably killed him (speaking of, I think it would have also been fine to bring ignite versus their silly summoners and lack of assassins, but hey). You might not be able to follow a flash if he lived, but could then turn on maokai with Ashe or just take the trade and cs/xp lead by shoving it into tower. The minions are dangerous, so you want to be careful of overextending, but I think that hook was good enough to take.

Even in the fight you did take, I think if you q'd the Mao, then flash auto'd the Ezreal when he walked up that would have been a kill as well -- the Ashe was in position for w/q auto and the Maokai was oom and pretty useless.

But, if you don't do either of those, you should be following them either way to zone them off cs and xp and make sure they don't turn on the Ashe -- as it is, she loses her flash, whereas you don't gain much from trying to proc relic a bit earlier (by the by, go for the cannon over the ranged!). This goes back to creating space for your adc, which is the main role of the support for the first bit of lane! Never give a free trade etc.

4:48ish, I think you could flash/q/auto as soon as he comes back to cs instead of waiting for kindred and you could probably catch him before he can flash/possible before he can flash under tower, which would make it easier to follow the flash safely. Try and time these all-ins when the enemy adc is going for a cs, it lets you get at least an extra auto or at best a surprise cc and kill. I think in general you should try and be a bit more decisive on engages -- if you don't try it, you won't know if it will work, and if you're constantly looking for all-in opportunities like that it will help you get a better idea of what you need to do to set them up as well.

Anyway, this took longer than I thought, but hey. Some basic things to focus on:

If they are hitting your adc, hit them.
If they use abilities (i.e. Maokai sapling or w, Ezreal e) take advantage of the cooldowns to punish them.
If you see an opportunity for a fight, go for it! You deal a ton of damage and can kill noobs.
Generally, try and play more aggressively to enable your adc to farm safely, and set up solid trades.
Think about when to use cooldowns (i.e., your hook) -- if it misses, that could leave you vulnerable to kiting/an all in in return, and if you still have it up they have to play around it. Always have a reason for throwing out an ability!

This game has a pretty big learning curve and it can be hard to figure out what a better thing to do is when you're playing with people at your skill level (when I watch better players they take trades I didn't see, get roams that I wouldn't have, etc etc) but try stuff out, think about why you're doing things, and you'll figure it out imo.

foutre fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Feb 29, 2016

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

I think you're right that in S5 that start was better, but (I think since you stopped playing much) Grail and Zhonyas both got nerfed pretty hard since then, along with a lot of core AP items, so at the moment RoA is just a much, much more efficient purchase than either. It still allows Morg to maintain her permashove + roam thing mid lane, and the tankiness helps make up for the fact that your Zhonyas will be 500 gold later. FQC is also still decent, but post the nerfs I think it can sometimes be too slow to go that first into RoA, but if you can manage it it's really nice to have.

Personally I've switched to running scaling CDR along with a FQC or Morellos sometimes to supplement the RoA/Zhonyas/Dcap build to try and maintain some cooldown reduction, but in high elo in general I think she's switched to going pure AP and getting off one good combo rather than building early CDR.

Which is all kind of a downer, since CDR morg was more fun, but hey, one shot q + w is fun too.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

henkman posted:

80% slow means it's easier for him to land follow up shots but not impossible to get away from. 99 means you're dead unless you have a relatively healthy ally nearby to bodyblock

Considering he's already at 51% anyway, he's going to be pretty dumb. I think pre the last set of buffs he still was in a spot where he could be dangerous in competitive once people figured him out, this feels like jumping the gun pretty hard.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Spiros posted:

I've been playing since s1 but she's 2nice atm so I wonder if another nerf is coming

RIP AP Janna:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41dSA02gh4Q

You will be missed...

e: Just like Regi missed the yellow card every time he needed it, jeez.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
My favorite is the Rek'sai script that times unburrows to cancel dashes. The game I encountered it my jungler was a Nidalee who had her pounce in to execute the Rek'sai canceled 3 times in one jungle invade, one of which denied her a pounce over dragon pit. Combined with dodge scripts it was really a sad game for Nidalee.

foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:

Etrips posted:

Kayle is love.
Kayle is life.

What site are you using for that?

Also, Fervor does seem really legit on her, I think I might try her out too.

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foutre
Sep 4, 2011

:toot: RIP ZEEZ :toot:
RE: making Illaoi work, I think comps with strong zone control/seige that can aoe teamfight well can capitalize on her really nicely. Pairing her with stuff like Bard/Mummy for catch/keeping people in AOE works well, and forcing situations where the enemy team has to let you kite them through tentacle death fields to get to long range carries can be really brutal. I.e., set up at their tower or baron or whatever and played well you can force the issue. My most recent experience we built double ZZrot and just plopped everything in one lane to keep forcing fights and the enemy team kept having to fight in Illaoi hell.

Lady Naga posted:

By making the plays I mean boxing champs and winning.

Play AP supports, like Brand or Velkoz or Morg.

Or play #1 playmaker #1 champion #1 bully Bard. He can go tanky cdr and still do damage, he can go AS or on hit or AP and it won't be optimal but if you're ahead you can eat the enemy team alive. He's the best designed character in terms of aesthetics and how he feels to play: chill af.

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