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Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Well it is the OP we deserved.

All is poo poo. It is likely to get worse. :suicide:

The LNP have already started leaking their talking points in advance so they can get extra coverage :sigh:

It's like watching a depth charge go off in a sewerage farm in high def. slow mo.

My only solace is the right can't seem to help picking at their own scabs. So we get to watch all the right wing commentariat rip Clive Palmer a new one while the 'hard right' take increasingly exasperated hay makers at Turdball and Co. Parliament returns today with the only slight light on the horizon being the vague possibility the ABCC legislation gets broadened to a full blown federal corruption watchdog. Which won't happen over a huge pile of ALP LNP dead bodies but that image is at least satisfying.

Oh and business confidence is once again in the shitter!

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Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Thread shouldn't loving exist.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
How many lives at sea equals how many kiddie rapes? I think the maths here may have gotten a little bit confused.

If anyone has the time a commentary on the text of the ruling would be awesome.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
It's poop touching the poop all the way down at this point.

:gas:

Except for Pavel.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

xPanda posted:

There was a front page article on one of the main papers this morning quoting Paul Keating saying that the GST shouldn't be raised, not because it would be unfair and an idiotic step back towards the 19th century, but because it would encourage reckless spending.

Was Paul Keating, not John Howard, our Ronald Reagan?
In short yes.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
As soon as possible = Upon their death.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Oh Australia is deeply in the shitter at this point.

With the Centerlink facebook fraud detection it will be interesting what happens if and when the cases go before the courts because unless Centerlink has other sources of information it ascribes a legal status to setting a facebook status. What if I did it for the lols? What if I set up a dummy facebook account with the correct names of other people and then doxxed someone? It's a very deep dark hole.

That QUT Arsetralian beat up? Has very strong resonances of the kerfuffle that having wymen's rooms on campuses in the nineties provoked. :qq: But why am I excluded just because I'm a man!? Now we see who the real sexists are! :qq: Most people can see beyond this level of stupidity before they leave primary school.

The high court judge who desented in the "Let's rape kiddies on Nauru" case was a woman! That's why you can't let them into positions of authority! When the going gets tough they buckle to their hormones and crumble when men stay hard. Lucky there were some clear thinking men around to keep things on the straight and narrow.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
I was aware of that but in my entirely disingenuous fake posting didn't feel a need to conform to any standards of journalistic integrity. Seeing as you have made it an issue allow me to recast my post.

Cartoon posted:

The high court judge who desented in the "Let's rape kiddies on Nauru" case was a woman! That's why you can't let them into positions of authority! When the going gets tough they buckle to their hormones and crumble when men stay hard. Lucky there were some clear thinking men around to keep things on the straight and narrow. At least the other two women on the panel did what they were told, or maybe they were just confused and hormonal? Really makes you think about what a crap shoot having them there in the first place is!
Better?

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Birdstrike posted:

you're alright cartoon, I'm just having a larf
As was I. And the rich apparently:

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...rn-in-your-area

You need to click this one but it's about income disparity.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
What if they are just after a fresh source of kiddies?

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
gently caress when this first came up I likened it to the wymen's room kerfuffles of the nineties thinking that this adequately made the point. :eng99:

So for the hard of thinking:

Does disadvantage exist? Y/N

If N then you clearly are onto something.

If Y then this means it is entirely appropriate for extra 'things' to be available to the disadvantaged in society. If you are not a member of the disadvantaged group then you look like a complete weenie when you petulantly spout 'Not fair what about me?' More to the point YOU are the person blowing up the 'segregation' issue. This was a complete non-issue until some self entitled dick swingers decided to make it a personal crusade. It was mentioned in this thread that the particular computer labs are not in a high traffic area of the campus and it is reasonable to conclude it was an agent provocator type incident.

The irony of one of the men involved posting “more retarded than a women’s collective” more or less sealed their fate (at least in my eyes).

-/-

In that article about tightening immigration law due to TEARA :supaburn: am I the only one thinking, 'If we are so concerned about security why aren't we doing something to plug the security holes that allow "Marked "protected", "sensitive" and "cabinet", the document is believed to contain recommendations for Mr Dutton to present to Cabinet's National Security Committee." That's straight up treason right there. If something is PROTECTED CABINET-IN-CONFIDENCE it is due around the level of custody as SECRET. Given the document refers to the proceedings of the National Security Committee it is more correctly equivalent to TOP SECRET. These documents are excluded from public access for twenty years regardless of any other classifications (was thirty till recently).

This is serious poo poo and it isn't the first time since the NTATA - Turdball clown car crashed into parliament house. In a proper system you'd expect zealous investigation and prosecutions....

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

ColtMcAsskick posted:

Granted cartoon but is it okay that they have to pony up $5000 just to avoid being sued for having an opinion which, as far as I can tell, isn't racist? (Apart from the obvious one)
Without knowing the full facts of the case I can't say. $5000 does seem a high penalty to pay for even lovely activism, Voltaire and all that. Cartoon - Open finding pending more information.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
I saw a sticker on the back of a car this morning - "Fit in or gently caress off". It was in the shape of Australia and was the Australian flag as a background. We are making progress!

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Birb Katter posted:

Was the driver fit though? Be sad if the wanted others to be fit but just drove between work and maçcas
Dunno my eyes had misted over with the red mist or the fumes from my soy latte at that point.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Anecdote != Data but,

I worked in nightclubs in Europe. The biggest problem drinkers were not: The English (They came in 2nd), The Scots, The Germans, The Italians, The Danes, The Australians (4th or so but a very small sample.) The Swedes (3rd) or the Norwegians. It was the Finns. They definitely have a "get pissed punch someone" thing going on especially in a mixed culture setting (It was usually the Swedes they wanted to punch).

I've been reading a book going by the name "Black Australians - A survey of native policy in Western Australia, 1829-1897" by Paul Hsluck. It was published in 1942. The similarities between current policy positions and those of the 1890s are both compelling and utterly depressing.

Pages 204 and 205 posted:

]there was little in the attitude of the invaders that was likely to modify the harshness of the meeting or to assist the native in the process of adapting himself to new conditions, while there was much to hinder that adaptation. ..No particular system was tried long enough or thoroughly enough to justify anyone in saying that such-and-such a method was good or bad.
Except for occasional flourishes under the inspiration of an exceptional individual, the white colonists took the way that was easiest for them. When the native did not respond immediately to their attempts to 'civilize' him those attempts ceased.

White man's burden shrugged off.

starkebn posted:

We come from the British, the most violent culture in history
lol

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-02/deputy-coroner-wants-rock-fisherman-life-jacket-laws/6590418

quote:

Life jackets required for rock fishermen in bid to reduce deaths, NSW coroner says By Jayne Margetts Posted 2 Jul 2015, 4:48pm

The NSW deputy coroner is calling for laws to make life jackets compulsory for rock fishermen in an attempt to reduce the enormous "emotional and social" cost of their deaths. Thirty-five people have died while rock fishing in NSW since 2012, with around seven deaths per year. Deputy coroner Carmel Forbes has been investigating eight deaths between 2012 and 2015. "The emotional and social cost of these deaths to family, friends and the community is enormous," she said.
Rescue operations are "dangerous, resource intensive and normally undertaken in treacherous conditions".

In 2011, rock fishing deaths cost the community, on average, between $450,000 and $600,000 per incident. The deputy coroner noted that the current measures in place to protect rock fishermen have not seen any reduction in deaths. She said life jackets should be mandatory and that the cost of the proposed measure would be "far outweighed by the saving of lives and subsequent reduction of social and financial costs associated with the loss of lives in rock fishing". Ms Forbes said consideration should be given to a 12-month grace period, an education campaign and coupons or gift vouchers for free or subsidised life jackets.

She also recommended a review of current signage warning of the dangers of rock fishing and the use of "shock signage indicating the number of deaths associated with rock fishing". Recreational Fishing Alliance president Malcolm Poole said rock fishermen are not reluctant to wear life jackets, but the designs are not suitable for the sport. "Life jackets are currently designed to an Australian standard for boating," he said. "What we're looking for is an appropriate life jacket designed to the Australian standard for rock fishers. "You have to understand that rock fishers are a mobile person on a rock platform, they move around a fair bit."

However, Surf Life Saving New South Wales lifesaving manager Andy Kent said introducing new laws would compel life jacket manufacturers to improve their products. "Manufacturers may start, or should start, making life jackets which are actually suitable for the actual cause of rock fishing," he said.

The article is old but it is once again current in the news in NSW.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Once again I remind people that outsourcing enforcement (even at the investigation phase)is a terrible idea in principle. There are privacy concerns, tout law concerns and ultimately people sworn to uphold the law are allowed and encouraged to use discretion at the coal face. If you are being paid for piece work then you have a vested interest in keeping the numbers up. Bailiffs and sheriffs have historically come into regular confrontations with police due to them (Bailiffs) over reaching their allowed authority and it continues to this day. Extending the scope of these stupidities isn't progress.

Even if it was all covered by the right of access to due process via the courts (which it generally isn't) the power disparity between a firm of hired thugs and an individual is too large. gently caress all of this in principle and shame on the government for introducing under the banner of reducing Welfare Fraud.

And a quick reminder of why the ATO doesn't go after multinationals evading millions. The multinationals are prepared to spend at least what they owe in taxes on hiring lawyers and accountants to enable their evasion. To attempt to match this is obviously not a viable strategy for the ATO especially as all the associated costs to the business are a tax deduction. Better to go after a couple of million people over claiming on Monte Carlos.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
I'd like to point out that one of the benefits of paying people a liveable amount of welfare is it promotes people doing art related activities and reduces crime. I'm not sure the people most fervently advocating welfare crackdowns and cuts really want to live in the world that this will create. They may believe that somehow they won't be effected because they are deserving and will be living in the gated communities with their millionaire overlords.

ScreamingLlama posted:

(I'm not saying they found the best way to go about combating the fraud, either, but I'd like to see you do better.)
WTF!?

I have actually been involved in combating welfare fraud. It was mainly deadbeat Dad's evading child support payments. Just what key areas of my performance were substandard? Every revenue (spending or collecting) agency has thresholds that have to be reached before serious enforcement action is commenced. Even in the case of someone defrauding the Commonwealth of $400,000. dollars (your SMH link). The cost of prosecution against recovery (if it was ever possible) would far overbalance the financial benefit. These cases are done to show the average client that the organisation is serious about fraud once it is detected. Suggesting that a crack down is a revenue positive measure is amazingly short sighted. There are the costs of detection, investigation, prosecution and recovery. Even in the case in the SMH the financial consequences of doing nothing were probably better on the balance sheet than the prosecution and cessation of payments.

This has become like the Airport security theatre. It plays well to the mob and actually does gently caress all. There's plenty wrong with welfare fraud but I haven't heard anything about it from the LNP that makes me think they give a poo poo either.

ScreamingLlama posted:

ITT people who think there's nothing wrong with welfare fraud
Actually I think you'll find my argument has a little more substance and can not be so easily dismissed.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

ScreamingLlama posted:

You lot seem to be operating on the assumption that I think underpaying people on welfare is a good thing. I think it's a very bad thing. But that's not the issue at hand. The issue at hand is whether it's appropriate for the Gestapo to spy on social media and watch people in public to catch fraudsters and I think that it is.

True, but unfortunately the other rorts you mentioned are legal because the corporate whores in Parliament made it so. Welfare fraud is illegal. No, not everyone goes to jail; some people just get their payments stopped and/or a debt is incurred. The thing is, how are you going to know who's cheating if you're not trying to find the cheats?
Well the central theme of my post was it costs more attempting to catch people than the people are actually rorting but please do go on. There is no level of personal freedom that can not be sacrificed to ensure there are never ever any people defrauding a system. :ssh: Except the ones who are too clever to be caught, by anyone, ever. :argh: gently caress I hate those guys.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Laserface posted:

So we should just bail out every fuckwit who gets in over their head? why dont we help gamblers, drug addicts, and criminals?
Yes. Having failed human beings living in the gutter begging lowers everyone's standard of living. We should probably invest a bunch of cash in fixing broken people rather than 'taking them rock fishing'.

bowmore posted:

I'd prefer they go after the corporations that pay no tax rather than the welfare cheats
Unless we changed the system so that corporations pay a flat rate then they will (as I have explained before) simply out invest the ATO in compliance costs and claim it as a deduction.

I wouldn't take too much comfort in Turdball almost ruling out a GST. This is all wind testing in the lead up to the election.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

A sub-human piece of filth posted:

'This is not an easy issue to manage, but it has to managed with a very cool head and a very big heart,' he told reporters in Canberra.
The man who is responsible for the department has a very big heart. Pity it isn't beating.

A sub-human piece of filth posted:

'If we give those people smugglers any marketing opportunity, let me tell you they will use it and there will be more deaths at sea, more children put at risk.'
And a never ending thirst for the kool aid.

Lives that were never put at risk in returning the 23 was it, boats? Oh wait a bunch of people died, in a big hearted kind of a way. gently caress You Michael, gently caress You.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Sorry guys it isn't cool to use anyone's disability as an argument against them. Please stop. Even if the person has explicitly used their disability as a bargaining chip. There are so many other ways to show how hosed up what SL is advocating that it really only makes the disability argument look like a dog act.

Points not including disability

1/ The fraud is a tiny part of government revenue (Not the 'billions' claimed without citation by SL).
2/ Detecting the fraud costs a significant amount.
3/ Prosecuting the fraud definitely costs more than the amount potentially saved (:ssh: That's not why there are prosecutions).
4/ In many cases 'fraud' is a result of the Byzantine processes in place to discourage valid applicants.
5/ When the benefits are so pitiful it leaves people in financial hardship despite their best efforts a little 'massaging' or the facts is inevitable (See also petty crime in Dickensian Britain).

There are more but until SL addresses the above and justifies their stance of:

ScreamingLlama posted:

(I'm not saying they found the best way to go about combating the fraud, either, but I'd like to see you do better.)
I'm not engaging further.

-/-

Want to choose the worst* person possible? Of course you did!

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...131-gmhyfe.html

quote:

Kate Carnell quits business lobby to become first small business ombudsman February 1, 2016 James Massola

A business lobbyist and advocate for cutting penalty rates has been appointed Australia's first small business and family enterprise ombudsman. Small Business Minister Kelly O'Dwyer has chosen Kate Carnell, who until recently led the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry [ACCI] and who is also a former ACT chief minister, to fill the newly created position for a five year period. Ms Carnell will lead a small team and the independent office has been allocated a budget of about $6 million to offer a range of services to small and medium sized enterprises with employees of less than 100 people.

Ms Carnell told Fairfax Media that, in her view, the new Ombudsman's position had two key roles.

"First of all, it is to act as an advocate for small and medium business and to be a conduit to government for them and a single point of entry," she said. "It's also to focus on alternate dispute mechanisms, so small businesses don't get caught up in lengthy and expensive court cases. I will be working with organisations like the ACCI, to ensure they have a voice in government. So in some ways it's similar to what I've been doing, as an advocate for small to medium business, but inside the tent." Ms O'Dwyer said Ms Carnell would bring extensive experience and knowledge to the role of Ombudsman, given her background in business, and was "well-positioned to translate the voices of small Australian businesses and family enterprises into targeted policy messages for government". The appointment was "a major win for small business owners who will have access to advice and support, and an independent advocate to ensure the government creates the right conditions for small businesses to grow. The government acknowledges small businesses make a substantial contribution to Australia's economy with over two million small businesses generating around a third of economic output."

Ms Carnell's appointment comes as the government considers its response to the Productivity Commission's report on Australia's work laws and what, if any, industrial relations changes it will take to the next election. The Commission recommended in its report that the independent Fair Work Commission consider cutting some Sunday penalty rates to the same level as Saturday rates, a position backed by Ms Carnell in the ACCI's submission. She leaves the ACCI, one of the largest business lobby groups in the country, after a little less than two years with the organisation and will begin in her new role on March 11.

I have a strong suspicion that this is going to be another barracking spot for the neo-cons rather than any sort of a small business 'support' role. I hope to be greatly disappointed.

-/-

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-09/closing-the-gap-doomed-to-fail-without-more-indigenous-input/7149442

quote:

Closing the Gap 'doomed to fail' without more Indigenous input, activist Patrick Dodson says By the National Reporting Team's Natasha Robinson Updated about an hour ago

Aboriginal leaders are calling for a new compact with Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull amid warnings the Government's signature Closing the Gap policy has slipped seriously off track.

Key points:

Activist Patrick Dodson says it is probably time to scrap the Closing the Gap policy
He says it will not work unless Indigenous groups have more involvement Quell surprise!
The eighth Closing the Gap report comes out on Wednesday
Yawuru leader Patrick Dodson has questioned whether the policy aimed at dispelling Indigenous disadvantage should continue, a day ahead of the release of the Prime Minister's eighth report on progress under Closing the Gap.

"Closing the Gap hasn't got a buy-in from Indigenous communities," Mr Dodson said. "There's a lot of aspiration and maybe good intention, but unless you get participation from Indigenous entities at a local level and community level, it's not going to work. Without Indigenous participation it's going to be doomed to fail and all we'll see is another record of some achievements in some minor areas, but we're basically just changing the tablecloth on a table without really realising that the white ants are eating the legs out of the table, and we have to restructure the whole nature of our relationship." Asked whether it was time to scrap the policy, Mr Dodson said: "I think it probably is."

The Yawuru leader said Aboriginal people wanted substantive recognition as part of a settlement process or treaty, rather than a government accounting exercise on reducing disadvantage. But Mr Dodson said there was currently a vacuum in Indigenous policy, with Mr Turnbull affording the area a relatively low profile. "I think it's a problem if the leader of the country is not paying attention to these significant issues that are affecting Indigenous peoples in this country," Mr Dodson said. "So unless Mr Turnbull and his Government has some other methodology, they need to put it on the table so that Indigenous participation can take place. Without that, the ideas around improving the quality of life for Indigenous peoples are going to be fraught with difficulty. "We haven't had a political expression around treaty since Bob Hawke made the announcement back at Barunga back in the '80s. There's been no political leader prepared to come out and say 'we want to enter into a treaty with the Indigenous people'. But the Indigenous people are now saying 'we want some kind of settlement, some kind of treaty with you', but where's the political will about that? That doesn't exist at the moment, or it seems to be very tentative."

Former Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner Tom Calma was one of the original architects of the Close the Gap campaign, which aimed to eliminate the life expectancy gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians. That movement is an Aboriginal-led campaign, as distinct from the Government's Closing the Gap policy. The Aboriginal Close the Gap campaign is celebrating its 10th year. "Ten years we've been going, and we've only increased our work, some of the same people that joined me in 2006 are still with us today," Mr Calma said. "We will still go on, we know it's a generational target we need to look at." But Mr Calma said goodwill between Aboriginal people and governments had suffered damaging blows over the past decade.

Whilst politicians procrastinate, people still die.

Tom Calma, former Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner: "Governments have waxed and waned over time, there's been inconsistent policy application, funding for programs has stopped and started and that is not good," Mr Calma said. "When there's changes in policy directions, it might be the stroke of a pen in Canberra, but that has a massive effect out in communities, and they've got to go and cope with that change. We need to get them to sign up again to the statement of intent and say they are going to work together on these policies and programs, and they are going to work with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people."

Mr Calma said there had some good progress under the Closing the Gap policy, especially in infant mortality and Year 12 completion. But progress in other areas had stalled. "It's stalling in some regards and in other regards it's very positive," Mr Calma said. "The gains that we were seeing have in the past six or so months maybe stalled because of changes of government policy and funding. "That's why I urge government, as we do in the Close the Gap campaign, to have a steady keel, and let the programs come out." Mr Calma singled out a national policy on suicide prevention — proposed and funded with $17.8 million by the Gillard government and now on hold — as one example of stalled progress. "We don't have an implementation of the suicide prevention strategy," Mr Calma said. "Whilst politicians procrastinate, people still die."

Aboriginal former magistrate Sue Gordon headed the Northern Territory intervention into remote Indigenous communities in 2007. She is now president of the board of the Polly (Graham) Farmer Foundation, and believes Closing the Gap does not take account of grassroots progress. "I think the community get a bit tired of hearing closing the gap this or closing the gap there But people in the community don't really understand what it's about. It's really aimed at those people who work in the Aboriginal industry for want a better word," she said. 'All members of the Government are out listening'

A spokesman for the Prime Minister said Mr Turnbull "has met and spoken to several Indigenous leaders and people, and will continue to seek a diverse range of views as we progress Indigenous policy matters. This includes on Constitutional Recognition of Indigenous Australians," the spokesman said. "The Prime Minister has met with and spoken to Mr Dodson several times in the months since becoming Prime Minister. We acknowledge that Closing the Gap is a long-term agenda, and we need to work in partnership with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians to get the best outcomes. All members of the Government are out listening, and responding, to the needs of their communities. This includes Indigenous people."

The Prime Minister's Closing the Gap progress report 2016 will be tabled in Parliament tomorrow.

Book published in 1942 about WA in the 19th Century posted:

]there was little in the attitude of the invaders that was likely to modify the harshness of the meeting or to assist the native in the process of adapting himself to new conditions, while there was much to hinder that adaptation. ..No particular system was tried long enough or thoroughly enough to justify anyone in saying that such-and-such a method was good or bad.

Except for occasional flourishes under the inspiration of an exceptional individual, the white colonists took the way that was easiest for them. When the native did not respond immediately to their attempts to 'civilize' him those attempts ceased.
Re-quoted for emphasis of original point.

*Worst woman? I think it's great the position has gone to someone who isn't a suit but KC is a total piece of human garbage who can be paid to say anything.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

katlington posted:

Jesus loving christ ian mcdonald at the senate legislation committee. SHY called him a joke lmao.
Link or it didn't happen! It does help SHY that Ian McDonald is a joke.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

UrbanLabyrinth posted:

Doesn't an ombudsman usually act as an advocate against that industry (e.g TIO, FOS, Commonwealth Ombudsman) rather than advocating for that group?
http://www.treasury.gov.au/Policy-Topics/Business/Small-Business/Family-Enterprise-Ombudsman

quote:

AUSTRALIAN SMALL BUSINESS AND FAMILY ENTERPRISE OMBUDSMAN

The Government is establishing the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman. This role will supersede the existing Australian Small Business Commissioner.

The Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman
The Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman will be a:

Commonwealth-wide advocate for small businesses and family enterprises;
contributor to the development of small business friendly Commonwealth laws and regulations; and
concierge for dispute resolution.
The Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman will also seamlessly link with business.gov.au, operated by the Department of Industry, Innovation and Science, to help small businesses easily find out about other Government services and programmes.

The functions and powers of the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman are set out under the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman Act 2015. This legislation is currently being implemented after receiving Royal Assent on 10 September 2015.

The Australian Small Business Commissioner
The role of the Australian Small Business Commissioner is to:

provide information and assistance to small businesses, including referral to dispute resolution services;
represent small business interests and concerns to the Australian Government; and
work with industry and government to promote a consistent and coordinated approach to small business matters.
During the transition to the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman, the Australian Small Business Commissioner will continue to operate and service the needs of small businesses around Australia.

Please visit the Australian Small Business Commissioner’s website for further information on their activities.
Many of the small business in Australia are very small and the people running them are often among the lowest paid. When a business is failing they may not have any income what-so-ever but be blocked from receiving social security due to their business assets. With the TPP agreement (and other 'free trade' agreements)small businesses now face the perils of being sued by foreign corporations. Small business owners are not generally eligible for legal aid.

Unfortunately the position is, as I suspected, there to provide a shill for the neocon penalty rates/IR agenda and that amply explains Kate Carnell getting the job. Nice to see the government funding a position specifically to promote their agenda. :3:

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
There's a reasonably strong case to support that the big boom in English cultural achievements in the late fifties and sixties was due to welfare funding and the art school system. Not exactly ABI, but a similar economic circumstance.

http://fineart.ac.uk/collection/html/stroud.html

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2011/apr/10/art-schools-funding

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Last I checked this was supposed to be about Australian politics (as hideous as that is) and not about giving other posters poo poo. If you have compelling arguments about an issue make them for the benefit of all. 'Ha ha you suck' or 'nanana I was right' are utterly pointless.

tl;dr Gas thread, Ban everybody.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

hooman posted:

Piss from within.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Frankly posted:

actually it comes from a dumb Lano & Woodley joke that stuck with me.

Too young to even know the quote everyone assumes it is outside of ~top ten movie moments~ countdowns haha

e: Thanks so much magic gun person, that helps reinforce what I was already slowly coming to realise
Further reading:

http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/fact-sheets/myths-about-refugees/detailed-mythbuster/

(eg)

quote:

Even for refugees who are in need of resettlement, there is no orderly resettlement “queue” to join. In reality, the resettlement system works more like a lottery than a queue. Very few resettlement places are available globally and, while UNHCR aims to prioritise those in greatest need, most refugees – even people in very vulnerable situations – cannot realistically expect to be resettled in the near future, if ever. Many refugees lack access to UNHCR’s resettlement processes altogether and simply do not have resettlement available to them as an option. It is unreasonable to expect refugees to remain indefinitely in situations of danger and insecurity, or to penalise them for seeking their own solutions, when the international community fails in its responsibility to provide effective protection.

Australia doesn't have a visa issuing office in many places that are the source of refugees so in for instance Iraq you can't apply for resettlement at the Australian Embassy/Consulate.

It's lies and disinformation all the way down. Hardly surprising when the ABC mixes up a few facts about child rapes. :ssh: The five year old was only sexually assaulted there was no actual penetration :toot: :suicide:

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
:godwin:

Don't worry he's only deputy leader (Chancellor) there is no way Malformed Turdball (Hindenberg) will ever let him have real power.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Lowtax should put me on commission.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Should I have turned down the gig writing speeches for Fiona Nash? I thought this came out pretty good. She's a stand-up comedian right?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-11/barnaby-joyce-named-as-new-nationals-leader/7161584

quote:

Senator Fiona Nash has been elected as deputy leader of the Nationals. "Within the next few years we will continue to build on the exceptional work that has been done by the most recent giant of our party, Warren Truss," Mr Joyce said.

"It is going to be a slightly different National Party, quite a different National Party," Senator Nash said. "And we would be doing the same things we have always done, focusing on those people outside the major capital cities, who need us to fight for them."
Change from within, change from within. :thumbsup:

-/-

Can anyone nail this down for me?

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...c3604d470f01ee3

Claims advice was given as a joke.

Driver denies receiving advice.

It's all a big pile of steaming caca at this point

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-30/icac-probe-into-top-prosecutor-witness-coaching-claims/5853554

Cunneen outright denies the allegations and claims malicious prosecution.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-11/icac-chief-slams-report-against-margaret-cunneen-probe-as-flawed/7158560

Juridiction of ICAC questioned and the High Court rules it out of bounds leading to a report from Inspector David Levine claiming that it was a low point in the "ICAC's history"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-04/icac-inspector-scathing-of-watchdog%27s-actions/7001490

Now the head of the ICAC has struck back and seems to be winning.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-11/icac-chief-slams-report-against-margaret-cunneen-probe-as-flawed/7158560

:psyduck:

There are clearly political machinations involved. Anyone know a good reputable source that has done the hard yards?

On the face of it this would appear to be clearly within the intended remit of the ICAC even if the legislation is questionable.

Cunneen seems to be guilty as gently caress and her subsequent perjury (or is it just lying) should result in some consequences. Who deems it worth the candle to protect her?

The subsequent bruhaha constitutes an attack on the ICAC itself which would be fair enough if there has been an abuse of power but it seems more and more to look like a deliberate hatchet job.

All fascinating stuff and anything that gets Ray Hadley to say "Those stout hard working members of the judiciary" rather than "They should just sack all of these out of touch judges." is worth it regardless of the actual facts.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

SKY COQ posted:

Got him, yes

Stuart Robert is out
If this was a little too cryptic for you and you though maybe he was an Australian opening batsman:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-12/stuart-robert-to-resign-fom-ministry-abc-understands/7163226

quote:

Stuart Robert to resign from Turnbull ministry following probe into China trip By political correspondent Anna Henderson Updated 13 minutes ago

Stuart Robert is resigning from the Turnbull ministry following an internal report into his conduct, the ABC has confirmed. The move will add to the complexity of the Prime Minister's reshuffle, which is expected this weekend. Labor has been calling for Mr Robert to be sacked over a trip to China in 2014, where he appeared at a signing ceremony for a mining deal between Australian company Nimrod Resources and a Chinese business. The Opposition argued the trip was inappropriate because Nimrod's executive chairman Paul Marks was a generous Liberal Party donor. Mr Robert also met Chinese Government officials during the visit.

The Prime Minister ordered an internal investigation earlier this week, tasking the Secretary of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, Martin Parkinson, with considering Mr Robert's actions. Mr Robert previously said he travelled to China in a personal capacity and not as a Government representative. He said he was confident he did not act inappropriately. The ABC has also been told Mr Robert has routinely used his ministerial office for fundraising events. His response to questions about it was that he uses his office for parliamentary business.

Yesterday the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) says Chinese officials believed they were meeting Mr Robert in an official capacity when he travelled to Beijing last year. Labor senator Penny Wong pressed DFAT head Peter Varghese about the trip during Senate estimates. Senator Wong asked whether it was appropriate that a minister "rock up to one of these meetings" without informing the department first. Mr Varghese said they were questions of judgement for the Minister. Senator Wong also pressed the matter with Graham Fletcher, First Assistant Secretary of the North Asia Division. "It's plain that the company and the Chinese Government thought they were dealing with Mr Robert in his ministerial capacity?" she said. Mr Fletcher responded: "Yes".

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Barnaby Joyce doesn't understand simple poo poo. Press Gallery don't look up from their Twitter feeds.

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Jun 20, 2008

poop

Zenithe posted:

Oh yeah, QLD Whooping Cough rates are like five times above last year.
Now there's a carpet bombing scheme we can all get behind!

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
So are we officially back to muppet government now or do we have to wait till after the latest cabinet reshuffle kerfuffle? Asking for a friend.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Anidav posted:

Isn't all these resignations exactly what Turdball wants? A reshuffle with a bunch of small L no names so he can sail into an election without a face the public can hate?
May I remind you:

Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce. This is the man who puts the gently caress into fuckup. He's only been in the job a day and he's already dropped a clanger. He has a huge track record of saying stupid poo poo and it looks like there are some other Nats on their way into the cabinet clown car. Turdball also has to stand in the mess that is ~his~ NBN implementation. That all spells a recipe for Red Nose day to me.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Skellybones posted:

This government will stay in as long as Howard did
How much of a clown car collision they are doesn't go to longevity. Until this last round of pooch screwing Turdball was doing a reasonable job of not appearing at the front of a scrum of poo poo eating clowns. I have every confidence that the Australian public are stupid enough to still vote for this level of horn honking poo poo smeared wacky jokers. I'm just pointing out that any analysis that concludes 'Good move, well managed team' is vastly mistaken. Well unless the only metric is can the colostomy bag explode with enough force to get the majority of its contents over the line in an election (al la JWH). In which case mea culpa.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Found this:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-13/turnbull-cabinet-reshuffle-who-is-going-where/7163334

It's interactive so I can't really quote it. Notable :dogbutton: is Luke Hartsuyker. He was even touted as a likely Nationals leadership candidate. There's something more to this that I haven't seen anywhere.

I like this quote about the reshuffle:

quote:

Federal Cabinet is getting dumber with each reshuffle. Those promoted today weren’t good enough 6 months ago. They were only promoted because Minister’s stuffed up or bailed out. So many have training wheels (Ciobo has Robb, even Joyce has Nash to help him bite his tongue, and she has training wheels herself). Turnbull is great at spinning this as rejuvination, but it’s just desperation. And the team probably won’t last to the election. For starters, Pyne and Roy are also under investigation by the AFP along with Brough.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-14/scott-morrison-criticises-labors-negative-gearing-plan/7166670

I mentioned sometime back that Morrison wasn't a great fit for Treasurer because (unlike his previous portfolio) you couldn't act as a valve for information. In treasury the rest of the world knows the figures often before the Treasurer does. This is a classic case of Morrison missing the entire point and proudly doubling down:

quote:

Scott Morrison says Labor's plan to scrap negative gearing will raise 'very little' revenue By political reporter Matthew Doran Updated about an hour ago

Federal Treasurer Scott Morrison has criticised the efficacy of the Opposition's plan to scrap negative gearing on established houses, arguing it will not help the budget bottom line as much as Labor is claiming it will.

Key points:

Scott Morrison says scrapping negative gearing will not raise as much revenue as Labor claims
The Treasurer said the plan was "like their famous mining tax"
:siren: ->Parliamentary Budget Office said measures could save $32 billion over 10 years<-:siren:
Opposition Leader Bill Shorten's announcement on Saturday proposed scrapping negative gearing for established properties from July next year.

The changes would not affect the tax arrangements for investment properties purchased before July 2017.

"Like their famous mining tax, Labor's proposed change to negative gearing promises big, but raises very little revenue," Mr Morrison wrote in an opinion piece published in News Corp newspapers. "It could also have some very nasty consequences for everyday mum and dad investors just trying to get ahead." (Note the non sequitor which was also like the one used against the Mining Tax. Won't do anything - will ruin everything).

Parliamentary Budget Office costings show the measures could save the budget $32.1 billion over 10 years once they come into force. "The less than $600 million their changes will raise over four years, not $30 billion, does not even pay the monthly interest bill on the debt Labor gave us, let alone the higher spending they have planned," Mr Morrison wrote. "The first priority for any revenue derived from changing any taxes should be to reduce taxes on those who are earning in our economy to support jobs and growth."(which famous economist said this? :ssh: none of them because it is entirely neo-con bullshit)

Shadow treasurer Chris Bowen hit back, arguing only Labor was putting forward policy proposals for the tax system. "We look at structural saves over the long-term which do take a while to build up but the budget needs long-term repair and so this is a change which doesn't have a huge impact in the first four years, we want it to build up," Mr Bowen told the ABC's Insiders program. "The reason for that is because we have grandfathered everything now, Scott Morrison in his consideration is not going to grandfather. If he's going to get bigger returns to the budget in the first four years by whacking into existing investments he should say so. He should rule out doing that because that's the clear implication of his criticism."

The guy is a dumb baboon in a suit and his elevation to Treasurer is making this clearer every day.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

BBJoey posted:

so is there any source for his $600 million claim or is he literally just making poo poo up and getting away with it

e: also shouldn't the first priority of tax revenue be fixing THE DEFICIT? he refers to LABOR'S DEBT in the immediately previous sentence, then immediately says that any revenue they get from tax changes they'll offset with tax cuts. what happened to the BUDGET DISASTER :confused:
Because the Labor scheme is Grandfathered and doesn't start until July 2017 it has a slow lead in but then becomes an accumulated ongoing saving. This is what you do to fix structural budgetary problems. Structural problem fixes don't come with a sugar hit if implemented responsibly. It is actually fundamentally different to a mining super profits tax (which would be generating no money today) which it can also be differentiated from by not being a structural fix in any case.

Perhaps to explain why Morrison is insane and this a good Labor policy>

Debt and Deficit are different things. At ~0% interest it is actually very sound for governments to borrow money. Maybe what the country should be asking Scotty is why he can't fund government debt more cheaply. That's definitely his job. Can't blame Labor for that. Debt can be used to make your government policies (long term) succeed.

Deficit is where you aren't bringing in as much as you are spending. Structural deficit is where you have made long term policy decisions that lock in the deficit for future years. This is what JWH did in spades. He took one off windfall revenue gains (and this is the cringeworthy part ->) with huge unprecedented long term revenue negative asset sales to cut taxes to the well off. The LNP have decided that this is clever economics :iiam: And ala Britain, Greece, The USA have committed themselves to not only continue the tax cuts but to 'fix' the deficit by further (revenue negative) asset sales and savage cuts to everything. Neo-con government fundamentally questions the point to any government existing and sets about dismantling the bits that aren't directly lining the pockets of the wealthy.

TheMightyHandful posted:

If alp's negative gearing gets up, won't investors just start knocking down and rebuilding properties?
Which would actually do what Negative Gearing was meant to achieve. Especially as the new houses would have to meet modern building codes and are much more likely to be redeveloped as medium density.

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Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Recoome posted:

that is some horrifying poo poo right there

i mean it's on the level of "heh, primitive savages. we are exterminating them for their own good" level
aka. Our indigenous reconciliation strategy?

May I suggest an alternative to the apparently problematic slogans?

Ditch the Rich

You're Welcome.

-/-

Arsetralian don't click http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...a41cb427712ef93

quote:

Cunneen puts committee on notice over leaked transcripts THE AUSTRALIAN FEBRUARY 15, 2016 12:00AM Chris Merritt Legal Affairs Editor Sydney

Lawyers for prosecutor Margaret Cunneen SC, above, have issued warnings.

Prosecutor Margaret Cunneen SC has warned every member of a committee of the NSW parliament that they risk criminal penalti­es if they release details of her taped telephone calls, which she says have been unlawfully supplied to the committee. Her lawyers issued the warning after an extract from a transcript of the phone taps was leaked to Sydney newspapers on Friday soon after it was given to the committee­ by the Independ­ent Commission Against Corruption. “Every member of the parliamentary committee has both a responsibility and a statutory duty not to disseminate or leak any transcript or audio recording of the taped conversation provided to him or her by ICAC,” the letter says. “It is a criminal offence.”

The letter, which has also been sent to NSW Premier Mike Baird, accuses ICAC of committing a criminal breach of the ICAC Act by providing the material to the committee. It gives notice that the incident is being referred to federal and state police for a possible criminal investigation. This is sharply at odds with statements by ICAC commissioner Megan Latham and is set to complicate the task confronting the committee, which is seeking advice of its own on whether it is legally entitled to receive and publici­se the telephone intercepts. The committee, which meets today, is also expected to consider calls from ICAC’s independent inspector­ David Levine for an investiga­tion of the leak, which he has described as appalling.

Soon after it came to light, committee chairman Damien Tudehope said: “On the face of it, it is my belief that it is a contempt of parliament.” The day before, Mr Tudehope had told a public hearing of his committee that had been presented with the telephone intercepts: “I would urge those members of the media not to publish material that is the subject of the direction that the material not be publicly released at this time.” Ms Latham gave the committee her legal advice and said ICAC was entitled to hand over the telephone intercepts, which she referred to as “TI product”, because it would not breach the Telecommunications Interception Act. “These proceedings qualify as exempt proceedings under the TI Act and that is the basis upon which we seek to make this materi­al available to the committee,” Ms Latham said. In written submissions, she urged the committee to make the intercepts public because it was in the public interest and “failure to do so will unfairly damage and undermine public confidence in the commission”.

However, the letter from Ms Cunneen’s lawyers, Cockburn & Co, takes a different view of the law. It says protecting public confidence in ICAC or the reputation of its officers is not a proper purpose for the publication of materia­l, which includes phone conversations of private citizens, and is not a proper exercise of the agency’s functions or powers. It says section 111 of the ICAC Act imposes criminal penalties on ICAC officers who divulge inform­ation obtained during their duties for purposes that are not connected with the functions of the statute. “There are limited exceptions to the general secrecy restraint under s. 111 of ICAC Act ... None of those exceptions can legitimately have any application to the inform­ation which has been provided to the parliamentary committee and now leaked to the press,” the letter says. “You are hereby on notice of our client’s contention that the officer or officers of ICAC who provided this material to the parliame­ntary committee has contravened section 111 of the ICAC Act and has thus committed a criminal offence.”

The telephone intercepts were one of the key elements in ICAC’s failed inquiry into what Ms Cunneen was alleged to have said after a traffic accident involving Sophia Tilley, her son’s girlfriend. That inquiry, known as Operation Hale, was terminated after the High Court ruled that the allegat­ion against Ms Cunneen, if proved, would not amount to corruption and was therefore outside ICAC’s jurisdiction. The intercepts have already been considered by NSW Solicitor-General Michael Sexton SC and Victoria’s Chief Crown Prosecutor, Gavin Silbert QC, who concluded there was no basis for criminal proceedings. In an article said to be based on a leaked transcript of the intercepts, The Sydney Morning Herald has quoted Ms Cunneen as telling a smash repairer she had advised Ms Tilley to fake chest pains. “My only reservation, between you and me, is that that naughty girl had alcohol had, oh no that’s all right, I can cover that ... But she had drunk, she’s on her P plates. But it had been some time ago which is why I sent her the message to start having chest pains and get the ambulance because it’s bought her a few more hours,” the article says.

ICAC had refused to provide the intercepts to Mr Levine, a former judge of the NSW Supreme Court, who obtained them independently from the Australian Crime Commission. He produced a report in December on ICAC’s handling of Operation Hale, in which he accused it of abuse of power and maladministration. After the High Court found ICAC had exceeded its jurisdiction, parliament changed the ICAC Act. The agency’s jurisdiction is now smaller than Ms ­Latham believed when she launched the Cunneen inquiry. The letter from Ms Cunneen’s lawyers notes that Ms Cunneen is acutely aware that the majority of the members of the parliament­ary committee understand their responsibilities and she regrets the need to write to them because most would be entirely innocent and would be “sufficiently decent and fair minded not to be complicit” in the leak. “Nevertheless, it is necessary for our client to demand, and she hereby does demand, that each member of the parliamentary committee refrain from directly or indirectly providing any audio or transcript of the taped conversation, or the substance of it, to any journalist or any other person­,” the letter says. It says disclosure of the telephone intercepts has caused prejudice against the prosecutor that cannot be remedied. “The imputation deliberately put forward by the ICAC is that, after all, despite the High Court confirming that ICAC did not have the jurisdiction to conduct Operation Hale and despite our client being cleared of unlawful conduct by the Solicitor-General on advice from an independent and eminent Victorian criminal lawyer, that somehow she is nevertheless guilty of corrupt conduct or some other offence. There is an apprehension that Ms Latham has released information about Ms Cunneen in what appears to be in retribution for the fact that a complaint was lodged with the Inspector which led to an adverse report against the ICAC. Such conduct has the tendency to undermine the confid­ence in any member of the public lodging a complaint.”

So she's doubling down on what appears to be a technicality. I can not see this ending well for her.

-/-

OK so we had the Royal Commission into Trade Union corruption which even if it was actually meant to dig dirt on Labor politicians pretty much completely failed to deliver. How many Federal Labor parliamentarians are currently under police investigation? My rough tally is zero. Compare that to the LNP with three cabinet ministers (Brough, Pyne and Roy ) currently under investigation and a recently resigned minister looking to face criminal charges. Jamie Briggs only resigned a couple of months ago. Also lol at Arthur Sinodinos claiming he did no wrong because he isn't actually in Goulburn Jail. If ever their was a royal commission needed into corrupt and criminal behaviour it isn't the ALP connections to trade unions it's the LNP and their dodgey mates.

Don't touch the poop.

Sometimes the post of the pooper is all the advertisement of their idiocy needed. This is one of those times.

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