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LeeMajors posted:The problem is turnout. Old racist assholes turn out at incredible rates--young people are too busy working two jobs to pay off staggering student loan and medical debt and have to squeeze in early voting. Also voter suppression. Like, incredible amounts of voter suppression. Having the federal election on a Tuesday which is not a day off is a form of suppression in itself. Early voting you say? Well either there is none or your vote gets contested and thrown out.
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Mar 1, 2016 15:14
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Weekend voting is a less and less meaningful reform as pretty much the whole concept of weekends off is a non existent phenomena for millennials.
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Mar 1, 2016 15:20
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Antti posted:Also voter suppression. Like, incredible amounts of voter suppression. Having the federal election on a Tuesday which is not a day off is a form of suppression in itself. Early voting you say? Well either there is none or your vote gets contested and thrown out. Remembering everything that happened around the 2000 election with early votes / absentee votes has made me pretty afraid of ever doing either in close elections.
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Mar 1, 2016 15:29
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Weekend voting is a less and less meaningful reform as pretty much the whole concept of weekends off is a non existent phenomena for millennials. This is true, it should be something like all employers are mandated to give any employee time off or to rearrange schedules to allow them to vote but hahahahahaha.
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Mar 1, 2016 15:33
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Antti posted:This is true, it should be something like all employers are mandated to give any employee time off or to rearrange schedules to allow them to vote but hahahahahaha. Even making it a federal holiday wouldn't really help, because tons of people have to work on those anyway. The real answer is probably to make voting take place over something like three to five days, so that it doesn't matter if you have that specific day off or not, you have an entire week when you can go vote.
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Mar 1, 2016 15:38
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LeeMajors posted:It's really amazing how social media has made the awfulness of conservatism common knowledge and basically poisoned all but the shittiest youths against the GOP. The WSJ has a wonderful meltdown today by Bret Stephens about "how is it we are proving the liberals right about everything they said about us?!?" Hieronymous Alloy posted:Eh, another ten years or so we'll see big changes. Article I read this morning argued that 1/3rd of the voting population is now made up of "Millenials." Mille ails aren't immune to right wing populism
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Mar 1, 2016 15:40
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Weekend voting is a less and less meaningful reform as pretty much the whole concept of weekends off is a non existent phenomena for millennials. Weekends? You mean when we're doing lovely contract work to make ends meet? Ashcans posted:Even making it a federal holiday wouldn't really help, because tons of people have to work on those anyway. The real answer is probably to make voting take place over something like three to five days, so that it doesn't matter if you have that specific day off or not, you have an entire week when you can go vote. This is basically the best solution, but it'll never happen because a good portion of the country doesn't want young people voting
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Mar 1, 2016 15:40
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Epic High Five posted:Weekends? You mean when we're doing lovely contract work to make ends meet? In Georgia you can vote early at county precincts everyday for like 2 months before the elections. Turnout is still lovely.
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Mar 1, 2016 15:46
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gohmak posted:In Georgia you can vote early at county precincts everyday like 2 months before the elections. Turnout is still lovely. Oh, a lot of young people don't want to vote either. Kinda surprised to hear about that in GA. Isn't it at risk of turning blue soon? I would've thought voter suppression would be cranked up to 11 there
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Mar 1, 2016 15:48
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Ashcans posted:Even making it a federal holiday wouldn't really help, because tons of people have to work on those anyway. The real answer is probably to make voting take place over something like three to five days, so that it doesn't matter if you have that specific day off or not, you have an entire week when you can go vote. Every election, we get footage of locations with more than four hour waits, and some places rejecting people still in line once they hit the official end of voting time. That's the kind of thing that needs to be anticipated and countered, and I don't think early voting significantly helps this.
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Mar 1, 2016 15:50
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Epic High Five posted:Oh, a lot of young people don't want to vote either. We double down on idiocy pretty robustly at the top of the state's echelons---"Blue Soon" has been a refrain for years now, mainly driven by Atlanta dogwhistling, yet somehow the status quo has continued, if not deepened in various respects. Early voting doesn't amount to much if your general options are...well...narrowly defined. We stand a better chance in absolute terms than, I guess, Texas in terms of enclaves versus the vast rural sprawl---but GA has very markedly taken steps to try and be something of a bulwark of The South and all the regressive nonsense that brings.
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Mar 1, 2016 16:05
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Fried Chicken posted:The WSJ has a wonderful meltdown today by Bret Stephens about "how is it we are proving the liberals right about everything they said about us?!?" In case anyone likes the sound of that but can't jump the WSJ paywall, it's mostly just a lot of the usual "Let Us Explain the Trump Phenomenon" — but the end of the article is the juicy stuff: quote:Bill Buckley and the other great shapers of modern conservatism—Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan, Robert Bartley and Irving Kristol—articulated a conservatism that married economic dynamism to a prudent respect for tradition, patriotism and openness to the wider world. Trumpism is the opposite of this creed: moral gauchery plus economic nationalism plus Know Nothingism. It is the return of the American Mercury, minus for now (but only for now) the all-but inevitable anti-Semitism. Gosh, it sure would be terrible wouldn't it  EDIT: I especially love it because this, in addition to the NRO meltdown, shows how totally in denial the Respected Conservative Thinker class of the GOP always was about a large percentage of their constituency. I'm starting to realize a lot of the conservative intellectuals really couldn't hear the dog whistling all this time. Denial is a hell of a thing. (Although yes, quite a lot were just always being willfully obtuse or grinned and bore it for the sake of keeping the voter coalition together.) Combed Thunderclap fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 16:13
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I always figured the RCT class thought the base was a bunch of rubes that they duped into voting against their interests. If they actually believed their own scam... well I guess they are actually pretty dumb. Personally I think that a lot of these freak outs we are seeing are rats trying to pretend that they had no idea conservatism was an inherently racist and economically terrible ideology, it's Trump and Obama that are ruining it, but if some of them are having a mental breakdown as they realize that the reality they thought was real is actually made up of impossible angles like the end of a HP Lovecraft story that's ok too.
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Mar 1, 2016 16:27
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Talmonis posted:My loathing of hippies and their supposed hatred of Are Troops took over at the worst time. The unfortunate thing is that the split between military and civilians has only gotten worse as the political rhetoric has polarized. I forget where I read it but a recent study commissioned by the Armed Forces apparently found that something like 85% of people under the age of 30 pegged the likelihood of themselves ever enlisting or seeking work with the military at somewhere between "extremely unlikely" and "never". Recruitment numbers for the past, like, decade have also been way lower than aimed for. The reality is that the military has kind of self-selected itself into a bit of a hole, and while the organization itself has made big, appreciable strides in the name of progress, it can't shake the perception among youth that a disproportionate number of its most vocal volunteers paradoxically despise the commander in chief (yes, I know that's actually broadly untrue), among any other winger stereotypes you can think of. I'm sure that this trend will have bigger ramifications in the future- potentially driving the Pentagon's autonomous tech roadmap to seek to do more with fewer and fewer specialist personnel. Ultimately, they're more out-of-step with most young people than ever- and if the last NFL season's ad blitz was anything to go by, they still have a ways to go. Fried Chicken posted:The WSJ has a wonderful meltdown today by Bret Stephens about "how is it we are proving the liberals right about everything they said about us?!?" It's behind the WSJ's paywall and you didn't quote it for us? 
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Mar 1, 2016 16:36
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Radish posted:I always figured the RCT class thought the base was a bunch of rubes that they duped into voting against their interests. If they actually believed their own scam... well I guess they are actually pretty dumb. Personally I think that a lot of these freak outs we are seeing are rats trying to pretend that they had no idea conservatism was an inherently racist and economically terrible ideology, it's Trump and Obama that are ruining it, but if some of them are having a mental breakdown as they realize that the reality they thought was real is actually made up of impossible angles like the end of a HP Lovecraft story that's ok too. Regardless watching them all twist into pretzels to chat up how totally non-white supremacist and super inclusive they are is fun/sad/will not actually change anyone's mind Kro-Bar posted:hey guys did you know that the GOP is the party of inclusion?
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Mar 1, 2016 16:36
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While I hate MatPat due to his horridly smug voice, he made a video covering the success of Trump in the GOP Primary that I found to be interesting (and probably a good way to explain his success to people who don't follow politics that much). http://youtu.be/n6PcQ1Be5ak tl;dw version: Trump is treating the primary like a reality tv show, and it's working.
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Mar 1, 2016 16:38
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Electric Bugaloo posted:It's behind the WSJ's paywall and you didn't quote it for us? I can't resist that face, have the whole thing for additional  funquote:Staring at the Conservative Gutter; Donald Trump gives credence to the left’s caricature of bigoted conservatives.
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Mar 1, 2016 16:41
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Electric Bugaloo posted:The unfortunate thing is that the split between military and civilians has only gotten worse as the political rhetoric has polarized. It doesnt help that they took a generation of young men, threw them into a meaningless meat grinder then stood on their throats and thanked them for their service when they came home. Publicly.
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Mar 1, 2016 16:43
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I know it was a fictional film, but whenever I think about people signing up for the military, I think about that scene in Winter's Bone where Jennifer Lawrence is pleading with the recruiter to take her so that she can have some money for her family.
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Mar 1, 2016 16:49
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Combed Thunderclap posted:EDIT: I especially love it because this, in addition to the NRO meltdown, shows how totally in denial the Respected Conservative Thinker class of the GOP always was about a large percentage of their constituency. I'm starting to realize a lot of the conservative intellectuals really couldn't hear the dog whistling all this time. Denial is a hell of a thing. (Although yes, quite a lot were just always being willfully obtuse or grinned and bore it for the sake of keeping the voter coalition together.) I don't think it's just the intellectuals -- the whole point of using dog whistles was to reach bigots without offending the masses. There are a fair amount of Republicans who basically see racism as "settled" and even when pressed with dog whistles, it could be easily dismissed since anyone could be a welfare queen and they've definitely see some white thugs. Basically they could put the onus back on minorities to "prove it". But when the talking points become "Mexicans are rapists" and the "all Muslims should be registered", that can't be rationalized as "jobs" and "safety" anymore. And it sure has hell can't be downplayed by the conservative media. You've even got assholes like Matt Walsh Blog decrying Trump. To me, the most amazing thing is we all believed Obama becoming President would be mark the end of the GOP because of the empowerment it would give minorities. And while it has done that, the actual end of the GOP is going to come by way of eating itself.
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Mar 1, 2016 16:55
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WHOOPS posted:
It can be both. Nothing dies on the national level without taking its time.
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Mar 1, 2016 16:57
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Electric Bugaloo posted:It's behind the WSJ's paywall and you didn't quote it for us? For future reference, if you Google the URL and click into it from the search results you see the non-paywalled version.
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Mar 1, 2016 16:58
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WHOOPS posted:I don't think it's just the intellectuals -- the whole point of using dog whistles was to reach bigots without offending the masses. There are a fair amount of Republicans who basically see racism as "settled" and even when pressed with dog whistles, it could be easily dismissed since anyone could be a welfare queen and they've definitely see some white thugs. Basically they could put the onus back on minorities to "prove it". But when the talking points become "Mexicans are rapists" and the "all Muslims should be registered", that can't be rationalized as "jobs" and "safety" anymore. And it sure has hell can't be downplayed by the conservative media. You've even got assholes like Matt Walsh Blog decrying Trump. I'm going to hold off not worrying until I see how the general election shapes up. If noted white supremacist Donald Trump gets the same 47% of the electorate as Mitt Romney it's not a good statement about our country. The pundits right now are not sure how to handle this sort of shake up but considering we have some notable ones already defending Trump's KKK comments it's troubling.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:00
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From that WSJ piece:quote:It is the return of the American Mercury, minus for now (but only for now) the all-but inevitable anti-Semitism. Wasn't there some veiled anti-Semitism during one of the GOP debates, something about Trump's "New York values" and how that was code for "The Jews"?
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Mar 1, 2016 17:03
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Radish posted:I'm going to hold off not worrying until I see how the general election shapes up. If noted white supremacist Donald Trump gets the same 47% of the electorate as Mitt Romney it's not a good statement about our country. The pundits right now are not sure how to handle this sort of shake up but considering we have some notable ones already defending Trump's KKK comments it's troubling. So what percentage will not make you worry?
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Mar 1, 2016 17:04
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CannonFodder posted:From that WSJ piece: Yep, turns out they didn't go anti-semitic ENOUGH
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Mar 1, 2016 17:05
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Any amount of people voting for Trump is worrying but it's worse if regular general election voters are willing to give the same amount of backing to Trump as they were to Romney.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:07
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WHOOPS posted:To me, the most amazing thing is we all believed Obama becoming President would be mark the end of the GOP because of the empowerment it would give minorities. And while it has done that, the actual end of the GOP is going to come by way of eating itself. The party is not over until they stop having an iron grip on the House and are competitive in the Senate. Once the Democrats figure out how to whoo small town working class white voters the Republican Party is hosed. Unfortunately the Democratic Party is clueless, especially the current leadership.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:09
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Combed Thunderclap posted:I especially love it because this, in addition to the NRO meltdown, shows how totally in denial the Respected Conservative Thinker class of the GOP always was about a large percentage of their constituency. I'm starting to realize a lot of the conservative intellectuals really couldn't hear the dog whistling all this time. Denial is a hell of a thing. (Although yes, quite a lot were just always being willfully obtuse or grinned and bore it for the sake of keeping the voter coalition together.) My partner and I are both academics and she has family members on the conservative side of the aisle- the truth is that being a Professional Conservative Intellectual requires very little actual intellectual rigor or challenge and a great deal more loyalty and high-functioning obtuseness. Great Conservative Intellectuals are valued not on their actual competence at being authorities in a given field, but on their ability to protect conservatism and conservative interests. In Conservative scholarship everything ultimately lives or dies by how well it hews to the established party line and message. If you have the right credentials from the right places (or good enough to be massaged/good enough for the base, in the case of passing AP history teachers off as climate experts) and are willing to sell your credibility for seriously fat stacks and/or buckle down in the face of withering reality, you can write yourself a blank check courtesy of any number of conservative think tanks, publications, and policy groups. It doesn't matter if you graduated with a 2.0 or if the entire field hates you. Seriously, anybody with a Masters in Earth Science willing to deny climate change on public record could probably scoop up a $300k/yr "consulting" gig from Heritage while wearing jeans to the interview.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:12
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Max posted:I know it was a fictional film, but whenever I think about people signing up for the military, I think about that scene in Winter's Bone where Jennifer Lawrence is pleading with the recruiter to take her so that she can have some money for her family. edit: Also the GI bill. When you're on the bottom of the economic totem pole that degree price tag is not small potatoes. "free" college can't be sneezed at when it's the high school diploma of good jobs today. bird food bathtub fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 17:12
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Josh Lyman posted:Fuckkk this makes me want to get pink lemonade now. That's American right? Regular lemonade on July 4th, pink lemonade on Super Tuesday? Pink lemonade is always appropriate. It's just better.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:22
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Radish posted:Any amount of people voting for Trump is worrying but it's worse if regular general election voters are willing to give the same amount of backing to Trump as they were to Romney. So in short, "any amount will make me worry irrationally".
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Mar 1, 2016 17:25
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I don't think that worrying Trump setting the tone for bringing blatant racist rhetoric back into the public discourse and being accepted is irrational. Of course you could say it never left which would be valid but there's something to the fact that it was something that we as a society at least on the surface agreed was bad.
Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 17:30
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computer parts posted:So in short, "any amount will make me worry irrationally". It's not irrational to worry about the resurgence of global fascism.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:38
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Talmonis posted:It's not irrational to worry about the resurgence of global fascism. Worrying is always irrational, it's a painful emotion that keeps you from acting in your best interests. Be concerned, yes, but fear is the mind killer. Also we shouldn't get too concerned about Trump until other American politicians start emulating him and getting similar support. So far there's no reason to think that his brand of American right-wingism will grow beyond his own personal candidacy.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:43
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Posting here since a lot of you ding dongs haven't moved to March yet. There was an infographic a while back showing what % of [candidate] supporters would support/not support another candidate if they were to get the nomination. Anyone know where I could find that?
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Mar 1, 2016 17:44
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weekly font posted:Posting here since a lot of you ding dongs haven't moved to March yet. There was an infographic a while back showing what % of [candidate] supporters would support/not support another candidate if they were to get the nomination. Anyone know where I could find that? I don't know the exact numbers but pretty much every poll has shown that cruz/rubio supports will fall mostly in line behind trump and the same for bernie supporters behind hillary. The people who will refuse to vote or defect are in the minority.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:46
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Also we shouldn't get too concerned about Trump until other American politicians start emulating him and getting similar support. So far there's no reason to think that his brand of American right-wingism will grow beyond his own personal candidacy. Right. We aren't Australia.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:46
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If it's still February it means I don't have to pay rent today
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Mar 1, 2016 17:46
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Talmonis posted:It's not irrational to worry about the resurgence of global fascism. It is when the very existence of a candidates makes you sure that everything is going to go to poo poo. That's unhealthy.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:47
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