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Haven't read the book but I thought the first three episodes were really good and interesting and now my interest has piqued. I think re: the past pushing back thing, in King's work there is almost always a strong mystical\karmatic undercurrent that is almost sentient in its efforts, the universe doesn't push back constantly, only enough to make the efforts of our time travelling protagonist futile.
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Mar 3, 2016 16:26
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scary ghost dog posted:hes the only author in the world who could pull it off and he does Vonnegut does it in a much less bullshit manner in "Breakfast of Champions". FilthyImp posted:If it's anything like the rest of King's world, it's likely due to The Dark Tower's motivating influence. So basically someone spilled the blood of amber on the primal pattern in real Amber? Zelazny's self insert is also significantly less annoying.
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Mar 6, 2016 11:48
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Gonna guess her clitoris as it was presented as something that was abusive, demeaning and painful for her.
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Mar 8, 2016 19:15
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Fragmented posted:Yeah there is no way i would stop the assassination. With the threat of nuclear war i wouldn't change anything major like that. I mean we survived to 2016, why would you risk it? You could always reset one more time if the world went to poo poo.
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Mar 13, 2016 21:40
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Began reading the book last week, about 40% in. It's nice how the show takes an almost completely different take on almost everything so both versions are interesting in their own way, James Franco's Jake is very different from book Jake but very interesting in his own right. What I think many people itt will like more about the book is the way it delves deeper into Jake's decision making process and the somewhat difficult logistics he has to deal with due to the time travel. Some minor background spoilers mainly concerning the tone of the work and things that aren't quite as apparent in the show: The book makes it plenty clear that Jake's adventures take place in King's haunted version of reality where some places have literal interdimensional evil mojo lurking about and this is something Jake is just plain aware of and can seemingly sense which would tonally not really fit in with the more realistic tone of the show, the book makes it sound like Oswald himself is partly influenced by these evil spirits that just make people go bad, but really that's just standard King I guess.. Overall, would recommend to people who like the show and felt like they could do with more detail and few more zany time travel adventures.
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Mar 20, 2016 10:36
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This sort of narrative is almost never concluded with the protagonist killing hitler and happily living in an alternate version of reality forever after, it's pretty obvious I think that 11.22.63 is at its core a variation on La Jetée\12 Monkeys. Usually time travel stories whose premise is 'changing the past' either have the alternate history schtick happen early enough so that the narrative actually follows up on the variations\butterfly-effect-shenanigans in depth or otherwise has the protagonist ultimately fail towards the end of the narrative. With 11.22.63 and how heavily it focuses on Jake's relationship with Sadie I think it's pretty obvious it's gonna be a La Jetee scenario where he opts to live in the past.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:34
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That's something that the slower build up of the book handles better, in the book the time portal exits to 1958, so about 3 years of every try are spent basically just living in the past doing nothing that's related to Oswald or Kennedy, going at it another time is just a massive investment on Jake's part so it's very obvious why he'd rather see the current iteration through before hitting the reset button regardless of how messed up things have become.
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Mar 22, 2016 19:52
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No, Jake's actions are fully explicable ocne you factor in the fact that a "do over" with Sadie will not be authentic and perhaps more importantly that the moment he steps back through the rabbit hole there's gonna be a version of Sadie that will live out through the next 50 or so years abandoned, whether he resets or not the 50 years will be real for this one version of Sadie. This is something that occupies Jake's mind quite frequently in the book, the fact that even if he resets poo poo the people whom he wrongs\doesn't-save will still experience the consequence of his actions. Book spoilers concerning what Jake's up to between 1958 and 1960 in the book: In the book Jake wants to prove the Butterfly effect hypothesis by actually saving someone's life, he obviously selects the family of Harry the janitor who gets slaughtered by his psychopathic and drunk father, as he winds up to the rescue attempt (which he goes through twice due to partially loving things up the first time) he comes to the realization that even though he intends to do a reset so he could verify whether saving them had an effect on the future\present he should still do his best in every iteration cause their suffering would be very much real. .
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Mar 23, 2016 10:09
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I am not fanwanking his motivations, It's stuff that he internal-monologues over in the book. You could argue that it's still a failure on behalf of the show that they didn't delve into any of this but it's in no way poo poo I just made up. In the book he believes that every time he goes back to the present the interim time period will be experienced by everyone who's left behind, this includes Sadie. He never even entertains the notion of diverging timelines and parallel realities, for what it's worth.
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Mar 23, 2016 10:21
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tetrapyloctomy posted:I'm really disappointed in how they handled Sadie's injuries compared to the book. "Oh no, a big scar!" versus salivary duct and cranial nerve damage with resultant facial droop -- really noticeable impediments and deformity. Really,, overall I'm not very impressed with the changes they made in the adaption, though I do think the actors have overall done a good job with the material they've been given. Yeah her very photogenic scar immediately reminded me of Tyrion's injury. American TV really can't deal with making a protagonist genuinely ugly, even if it's only for two episodes of a mini-series I guess. The doctor going "We did the best we can" yanking Jake's chain ruthlessly for what amounts to be a largely inconsequential scar was also really pathetic compared to how those particular scenes went down in the book where people were just generally relieved that she was gonna be ok.
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Mar 23, 2016 17:59
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The changes in the first few episodes were decent and interesting, even the introduction of bill as a young partner in crime was an interesting venue dramatically but it feels like everything just became a lot more nonsensical than it is in the book and the pacing seems all off. Kinda disappointed really.
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Mar 29, 2016 09:00
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They really should have just had the first half of the story follow the book more accurately, Jake's time in Derry in the book is incredibly compelling and him travelling back to the present to see what changing the past actually achieves was very important for the narrative. Also the whole sledgehammer massacre scene was just so much more horrifying in the book.
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Mar 29, 2016 12:55
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Haven't watched the episode yet but I was reading up on Oswald yesterday, the dude was basically LF personified:quote:During an interrogation with Captain Fritz, when asked, "Are you a communist?", he replied, "No, I am not a communist. I am a Marxist."
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Apr 4, 2016 10:26
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I really preferred the book's "conclusion" in regards to how time travel actually works and the side effects of changing the past, I understand it could have been rather difficult to convey the full gravity of the situation as it is in the book so they went with a simpler malevolent butterfly effect conclusion thingy but the extra depth King goes into in the book really serves to elevate the ending of the book to a different level.
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Apr 4, 2016 20:17
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major spoilers I guess the new time hole monitoring guy tells Jake that the rabbit hole doesn't truly fully reset the timelines and that the major changes to the timeline caused by his saving of JFK are somehow fundamentally destroying reality, when he gets back to the present it's not just a war torn world he encounters there's actual apocalyptic phenomena all over the place. In the book there's already a major earthquake that kills 7,000 people in california a couple of days after Jake saves JFK and reality basically starts going off the rails at that point so the new past Jake discovers when he returns is less of an alternative history and more of the world kinda falling apart rather rapidly.
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Apr 5, 2016 01:25
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The beginning of the episode where the past tries to absolutely annihilate Jake and Sadie was very satisfying and lived up to my book expectations despite them escaping the onslaught without any significant injuries.
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Apr 5, 2016 14:27
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Guy Mann posted:I thought the book ending was a nice capstone on the idea of casual time travel. You can sell the same few pounds of ground beef endlessly and you can save a life or two but you can't significantly change the past because doing so causes the very fabric of reality to unravel. What happened happened and you need to accept it and make the best of it instead of endlessly fixating on what could have been. Yeah that's how I took it and I found it to be a satisfactory conclusion, it also felt like King implying that changing the past is a good motivation for a narrative but an actual exploration of 'alternative history' is just a form of wankery. Al goes on about how the world would be better with JFK kicking around for a few more years but ultimately King goes "how the gently caress would we know? would it actually be satisfying if I started playing an intricate game of 'what if' starting with JFK's assassination?". It really felt like a good ending to the story which is something I usually don't expect from King, I expect him to write an amazingly captivating narrative that fizzles out towards the end, this time I was hooked 'till the last page and felt like he really nailed it.
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Apr 6, 2016 10:57
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Cojawfee posted:Why would she have a scar? She died in the timeline in which she got a scar. In the book her husband is still an ashhole stalker who shows up at Jodie and cuts her face before Deke shows up and her husband slices his own throat open. Though I guess without the added exposition the book has (Jake reads newspaper articles from the vicinity of Jodie from that time period and learns that the incident went down in a rather similar manner even without his involvement) it would actually be more confusing if she still had the scar.
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Apr 6, 2016 16:31
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