|
MonsieurChoc posted:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3507541 Covers everyone being a paedophile except the press, who are criminal shills.
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2016 19:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 17:22 |
|
|
Spangly A posted:http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3507541 Thanks. Looks like I got a couple hours of depressing reading to do.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2016 20:17
|
|
|
I updated the OP with this, which at least in Rotherham's specific case has a couple of councilors (which as far as I can tell are like a city council in UK cities) admit to the covering up racism angle.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2016 23:51
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:I updated the OP with this, which at least in Rotherham's specific case has a couple of councilors (which as far as I can tell are like a city council in UK cities) admit to the covering up racism angle. You seem pretty well informed about this. Anything else contributing to the "perpetrators knew local authorities" or "police corruption" angles you could also add to the OP? That article is heartwarming in some ways though. Pakistani Muslim folks from Rotherham saying, surprisingly, that this is some bullshit and the entire situation is some serious bullshit. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 07:11
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:You seem pretty well informed about this. Anything else contributing to the "perpetrators knew local authorities" or "police corruption" angles you could also add to the OP? I don't know that I would consider that "heartwarming" as opposed to it being literally the only reasonable reaponse
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 07:57
|
|
|
it's pretty tragic that south asian immigrants to england are so threatened by the average white brit's racist fury that many other white brits would prefer child molestation over the boozy snaggletoothed haranguing of english natives if only they could molest children in a television studio or some kind of mouldering rural estate, the proper and traditional way, none of this would have been an issue boner confessor fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Feb 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 08:19
|
|
|
blowfish posted:basically a bunch of old ministers and lords and MPs got outed as pedophiles, and everyone all the way up to Thatcher knew it and didn't care too much, and everyone investigated conveniently happens to be just old enough to not sink any current politicians by association
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 15:59
|
|
|
Payndz posted:I think the only (then-living) Lord who had a case against him progress as far as court, Lord Janner, was - by strange happenstance! - a Labour peer. How remarkable. lets be clear, the case did not progress, because he was too old and infirm to respond. It was honestly surprising he died, as it meant he wasn't lying. A trial of facts was recommended and could have taken place but that got scrapped when he died. Pissflaps is an expert on the reasoning, I'm sure he could contribute more. Helsing posted:Why exactly the author of this story didn't bother to elaborate on what is by far the most alarming part of the story is beyond me. However the crap about "not disturbing race relations" sounds an awful lot like a convenient justification for good old fashioned police corruption. Any journalist capable of carrying out an investigation in detail would never progress in their career past school newspaper. It is, specifically, a trait to be avoided in the press. What the entire Murdoch, unaffiliated and state media do is repost AP summations and then link you to something class-appropriate about immigrants or immigrant nannies, and the strictly come dancing results. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjENnyQupow Noam Chomsky has an excellent oversight into why this is such. Spangly A fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Feb 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 16:15
|
|
|
Spangly A posted:To be specific an article was uncovered in the British Archives detailing a conversation between Thatcher and various MI5 security bods about a ministers predilection for children, with Thatcher's signature and commentary, summed up as "who cares but fucks sake dont tell Russia". The police denied any such evidence existed, and were surprised to find it did, and could be found accidentally, and was everywhere. Do you have a link to anything about this article specifically? I knew about her magical barrier that makes all dossiers sent to her disappear and her getting whiny about calling people pedos in Parliament but I didn't know about this one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 17:00
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:I updated the OP with this, which at least in Rotherham's specific case has a couple of councilors (which as far as I can tell are like a city council in UK cities) admit to the covering up racism angle. That's quite possibly because "we didn't want to look racist" beats the poo poo out of "those dudes were paying us to keep quiet" The problem that I have with the racism angle is that all of the evidence for it sounds an awful lot like "I don't recall that series of lengthy meetings that I attended meticulously." There is no corroboration from higher-ups, who have specifically denied it. There is no presented evidence that this town is particularly non-racist for British police or similar. The other evidence in that article is along the lines of: quote:Prof Jay's report said that while ethnicity did not impact on the way front-line staff dealt with cases, it did affect the wider picture, with some staff in children's social care saying they were "advised by their managers to be cautious about referring to the ethnicity of the perpetrators" in reports. No poo poo you shouldn't mention things that are irrelevant. Mention if they're related or in the same community or whatever, but the three men convicted in this case were two brothers and their uncle. And then there were two white British women also convicted. How would throwing ethnicity into reports on children's social services have helped this case?
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 17:02
|
|
|
Kaislioc posted:Do you have a link to anything about this article specifically? I knew about her magical barrier that makes all dossiers sent to her disappear and her getting whiny about calling people pedos in Parliament but I didn't know about this one. discovery of said file I can't find anything in the Press relating to the file being opened but I have a strong memory of reading commentary on the file, so I'll look some more.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 17:04
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:
Not much of a cover-up is needed. Most people do not care about trafficked girls. You for example, only care in this instance because it allows you to take your racism for a walk.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 17:59
|
|
|
Lyesh posted:That's quite possibly because "we didn't want to look racist" beats the poo poo out of "those dudes were paying us to keep quiet" Almost everyone involved in this series of pedophilia rings is Pakistani. How could their ethnicity not be relevant?
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 18:46
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:Almost everyone involved in this series of pedophilia rings is Pakistani. How could their ethnicity not be relevant? Presumably in the same way that you will probably find racially homgenous crime groups all over the place? Turns out criminals aren't very nice people a lot of the time and are often pretty racist. But you probably don't get many headlines with "gang of white british political figures commit serial crimes" because when it's white people we don't make the argument that criminality is an inherent aspect of their race. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Feb 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 18:48
|
|
|
I heard a lot of white people committed organised sex crimes for decades and the police didn't investigate them either, they must just be really really afraid of being called racist its pc gone mad
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 18:51
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:Almost everyone involved in this series of pedophilia rings is Pakistani. How could their ethnicity not be relevant? sorry man, you're going to have to explain your latent racist beliefs to us non-racists in more detail than that, because i'm not seeing it. why do you think non-white people are more likely to be sexual deviants?
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:09
|
|
|
Lyesh posted:No poo poo you shouldn't mention things that are irrelevant. Mention if they're related or in the same community or whatever, but the three men convicted in this case were two brothers and their uncle. And then there were two white British women also convicted. How would throwing ethnicity into reports on children's social services have helped this case? There's been a lot of cases in Britain where child molesters of Asian descent have formed what are essentially criminal gangs focused on sex trafficking. It seems like there's an ethnic divide in how pedophiles operate in the UK, and if that's the case then ethnicity is relevant and could have helped by, for example, correctly suggesting to police that the sex ring was larger than the people initially arrested. That said, I agree with most everyone here that the evidence here to suggest a "climate of political correctness" had anything to do with the investigation's failures is paper-thin at best.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:13
|
|
|
When a woman claims a purse snatcher is a black man, should the police haul in 5 people of different ethnicities just to make things look less racist for the lineup? No, instead they haul in 5 black guys. This is the same principle-- when almost all of the pedophile gang activity in the area is organized and run by Pakistanis, the cops definitely should be keeping a closer eye on the Pakistani community. It sucks for the larger innocent portion of that community, yes, but as forums poster Thug Lessons pointed out, there honestly is an ethnic divide and it would be sloppy to ignore it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:18
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:Almost everyone involved in this series of pedophilia rings is Pakistani. How could their ethnicity not be relevant? Is it relevant when almost everyone is white? Explain how.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:18
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Not much of a cover-up is needed. Most people do not care about trafficked girls. You for example, only care in this instance because it allows you to take your racism for a walk. I think this is bit disingenuous. I would not say "most people don't care about trafficked girls" but more like the opposite, that there's a culture of moral panic over pedophilia.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:19
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:When a woman claims a purse snatcher is a black man, should the police haul in 5 people of different ethnicities just to make things look less racist for the lineup? No, instead they haul in 5 black guys. This is the same principle-- when almost all of the pedophile gang activity in the area is organized and run by Pakistanis, the cops definitely should be keeping a closer eye on the Pakistani community. It sucks for the larger innocent portion of that community, yes, but as forums poster Thug Lessons pointed out, there honestly is an ethnic divide and it would be sloppy to ignore it. is it actually true that pakistanis are more likely to be pedophiles, or are you just narrowing in on this high profile case because you enjoy feeding a natural racial bias against non-white people? i assume the latter is more likely, given my superior grasp of statistics
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:23
|
|
|
Thug Lessons posted:I think this is bit disingenuous. I would not say "most people don't care about trafficked girls" but more like the opposite, that there's a culture of moral panic over pedophilia. Moral panic implies that the thing being paniced about either doesn't exist, or isn't as big a deal as some think. In this case, there actually are huge gangs of pedophiles in at least ten different cities around the UK, which operated with, at best, indifference from the police and authorities, and at worst, with active support and participation.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:25
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:In this case, there actually are huge gangs of pedophiles in at least ten different cities around the UK, which operated with, at best, indifference from the police and authorities, and at worst, with active support and participation. oh i'm sure there are more than ten cities in the uk that have Peers
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:26
|
|
|
Thug Lessons posted:I think this is bit disingenuous. I would not say "most people don't care about trafficked girls" but more like the opposite, that there's a culture of moral panic over pedophilia. I would absolutely say it. People pretend to be outraged when they hear about it, but they don't advocate for investigations or changes to the law that would reduce it. I can only conclude that people are fundamentally ok with men having sex with underage girls, especially when they can seize on anything at all about those girls that makes them different from them (poorer, foreign, in foster care etc).
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:27
|
|
|
I've started reading the Rotterdam report, because that seems like a good way to learn what actually happened in this case. Immediately out jumps one specific, non-racist way that being colorblind and ignoring the ethnic component hurt the investigation into the case.quote:By far the majority of perpetrators were described as 'Asian' by victims, yet throughout the entire period, councillors did not engage directly with the Pakistani-heritage community to discuss how best they could jointly address the issue.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:29
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:I would absolutely say it. People pretend to be outraged when they hear about it, but they don't advocate for investigations or changes to the law that would reduce it. I can only conclude that people are fundamentally ok with men having sex with underage girls, especially when they can seize on anything at all about those girls that makes them different from them (poorer, foreign, in foster care etc). I don't know about the UK specifically, so maybe this is not the case there, but in the US we lock up a lot more pedophiles than we used to, have increased sentences, established more taskforces targeting them, etc. I was under the impression that it was similar in the UK.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:31
|
|
|
Thug Lessons posted:I think this is bit disingenuous. I would not say "most people don't care about trafficked girls" but more like the opposite, that there's a culture of moral panic over pedophilia. The specific girls that were being trafficked went to the police and the police didn't bother investigating for years. The story here is that the loving police weren't even investigating anything because nobody cares about low-status girls. quote:We were contacted by someone who worked at the Rotherham interchange in the early 2000s. He described how the Police refused to intervene when young girls who were thought to be victims of CSE were being beaten up and abused by perpetrators. According to him, the attitude of the Police at that time seemed to be that they were all ‘undesirables’ and the young women were not worthy of police protection.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:31
|
|
|
Thug Lessons posted:I don't know about the UK specifically, so maybe this is not the case there, but in the US we lock up a lot more pedophiles than we used to, have increased sentences, established more taskforces targeting them, etc. I was under the impression that it was similar in the UK. In the US we generally don't lock up johns, or call them pedophiles.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:32
|
|
|
Lyesh posted:The specific girls that were being trafficked went to the police and the police didn't bother investigating for years. well they didn't want to be accused of being classist by taking lower class accusations against the middle class too seriously. it's PC gone mad all over again
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:32
|
|
|
Grooming teenagers is not what most people think of when they hear "pedophilia". The moral panic is directed at something like a white van kidnapping preschoolers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:33
|
|
|
Lyesh posted:The specific girls that were being trafficked went to the police and the police didn't bother investigating for years. I get what you're saying, but these things aren't mutually exclusive. Nobody cares until it comes to light, basically.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:34
|
|
|
Thug Lessons posted:I've started reading the Rotterdam report, because that seems like a good way to learn what actually happened in this case. Immediately out jumps one specific, non-racist way that being colorblind and ignoring the ethnic component hurt the investigation into the case. Reading the report makes me think that the ethnicity thing is more of an excuse for not doing their jobs. It may have been a factor, but it sure as hell isn't the lede of the story.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:36
|
|
|
Thug Lessons posted:I get what you're saying, but these things aren't mutually exclusive. Nobody cares until it comes to light, basically. Nobody cares after it comes to light either.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:36
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:In the US we generally don't lock up johns, or call them pedophiles. Well, we do at least try to lock up teens for sexting and all other sorts of heinous poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:36
|
|
|
Lyesh posted:Reading the report makes me think that the ethnicity thing is more of an excuse for not doing their jobs. It may have been a factor, but it sure as hell isn't the lede of the story. Yeah, I agree with that completely. But the person I'm quoting there is an independent investigator, not someone spinning excuses for the cops. It's important to point out that the concentration on ethnicity is both fatuous and racist, but that doesn't mean we have to get carried away and banish it from the discussion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:43
|
|
|
quote:which were actively covered up by the local governments due to the ethnicity of the perpetrators for fear of 'giving oxygen to racism'. is the main thing I'm objecting to. It gives primacy to something that's a tertiary factor at best.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:45
|
|
|
Thug Lessons posted:Yeah, I agree with that completely. But the person I'm quoting there is an independent investigator, not someone spinning excuses for the cops. It's important to point out that the concentration on ethnicity is both fatuous and racist, but that doesn't mean we have to get carried away and banish it from the discussion. it certainly deserves to be banished from any discussion where the general issue of sexual predators is drilled down on specifically to use victimized children as an excuse to attack immigrants
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:50
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:it certainly deserves to be banished from any discussion where the general issue of sexual predators is drilled down on specifically to use victimized children as an excuse to attack immigrants To clarify, here you're referring to how this and similar cases are being discussed in the UK generally, correct?
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 19:54
|
|
|
Spangly A posted:Everyone in Britain born before the 80s is an active child molester. Everyone. Except immigrants' children who were born in Britain before the 80s, because racism.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 20:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 17:22 |
|
|
All pedophiles are Pakistani immigrants except for the ones who aren't.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2016 20:21
|
|