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Lyesh posted:No poo poo you shouldn't mention things that are irrelevant. Mention if they're related or in the same community or whatever, but the three men convicted in this case were two brothers and their uncle. And then there were two white British women also convicted. How would throwing ethnicity into reports on children's social services have helped this case? There's been a lot of cases in Britain where child molesters of Asian descent have formed what are essentially criminal gangs focused on sex trafficking. It seems like there's an ethnic divide in how pedophiles operate in the UK, and if that's the case then ethnicity is relevant and could have helped by, for example, correctly suggesting to police that the sex ring was larger than the people initially arrested. That said, I agree with most everyone here that the evidence here to suggest a "climate of political correctness" had anything to do with the investigation's failures is paper-thin at best.
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Feb 26, 2016 19:13
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SedanChair posted:Not much of a cover-up is needed. Most people do not care about trafficked girls. You for example, only care in this instance because it allows you to take your racism for a walk. I think this is bit disingenuous. I would not say "most people don't care about trafficked girls" but more like the opposite, that there's a culture of moral panic over pedophilia.
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Feb 26, 2016 19:19
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I've started reading the Rotterdam report, because that seems like a good way to learn what actually happened in this case. Immediately out jumps one specific, non-racist way that being colorblind and ignoring the ethnic component hurt the investigation into the case.quote:By far the majority of perpetrators were described as 'Asian' by victims, yet throughout the entire period, councillors did not engage directly with the Pakistani-heritage community to discuss how best they could jointly address the issue.
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Feb 26, 2016 19:29
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SedanChair posted:I would absolutely say it. People pretend to be outraged when they hear about it, but they don't advocate for investigations or changes to the law that would reduce it. I can only conclude that people are fundamentally ok with men having sex with underage girls, especially when they can seize on anything at all about those girls that makes them different from them (poorer, foreign, in foster care etc). I don't know about the UK specifically, so maybe this is not the case there, but in the US we lock up a lot more pedophiles than we used to, have increased sentences, established more taskforces targeting them, etc. I was under the impression that it was similar in the UK.
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Feb 26, 2016 19:31
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Lyesh posted:The specific girls that were being trafficked went to the police and the police didn't bother investigating for years. I get what you're saying, but these things aren't mutually exclusive. Nobody cares until it comes to light, basically.
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Feb 26, 2016 19:34
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SedanChair posted:In the US we generally don't lock up johns, or call them pedophiles. Well, we do at least try to lock up teens for sexting and all other sorts of heinous poo poo.
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Feb 26, 2016 19:36
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Lyesh posted:Reading the report makes me think that the ethnicity thing is more of an excuse for not doing their jobs. It may have been a factor, but it sure as hell isn't the lede of the story. Yeah, I agree with that completely. But the person I'm quoting there is an independent investigator, not someone spinning excuses for the cops. It's important to point out that the concentration on ethnicity is both fatuous and racist, but that doesn't mean we have to get carried away and banish it from the discussion.
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Feb 26, 2016 19:43
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Popular Thug Drink posted:it certainly deserves to be banished from any discussion where the general issue of sexual predators is drilled down on specifically to use victimized children as an excuse to attack immigrants To clarify, here you're referring to how this and similar cases are being discussed in the UK generally, correct?
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Feb 26, 2016 19:54
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Spangly A posted:yes I'm certain that's why the institutionally racist police did not investigate a bunch of foreign born and first-gen when repeatedly asked to. PC gone mad. The Rotherham report examined not only police investigations, but reported cases of child sexual abuse to several agencies operating in the borough including police, social services, child welfare, local council and an outreach center. They found that in 95% of the suspected cases it was likely that children had been abused or groomed for abuse, and that in the vast majority of those cases the perpetrator was described as "Asian". At least in the case of Rotherham, the evidence is overwhelming that ethnic minorities, specifically Asians (probably Pakistanis), are disproportionately likely to be perpetrators of child sexual abuse in cases that are reported. It does no good to anyone to pretend otherwise.
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Feb 26, 2016 21:31
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SedanChair posted:OK, they're Pakistani. Now what? Literally now what? I'll defer to the summary of the report's Section 11, titled "Issue of ethnicity", quote:Issues of ethnicity related to child sexual exploitation have been discussed in other reports, including the Home Affairs Select Committee report, and the report of the Children’s Commissioner. Within the Council, we found no evidence of children’s social care staff being influenced by concerns about the ethnic origins of suspected perpetrators when dealing with individual child protection cases, including CSE. In the broader organisational context, however, there was a widespread perception that messages conveyed by some senior people in the Council and also the Police, were to 'downplay' the ethnic dimensions of CSE. Unsurprisingly, frontline staff appeared to be confused as to what they were supposed to say and do and what would be interpreted as 'racist'. From a political perspective, the approach of avoiding public discussion of the issues was ill judged. Additionally, I agree with this excerpt from Section 14, "Recommendations", 
Thug Lessons fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Feb 26, 2016 |
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Feb 26, 2016 21:47
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Spangly A posted:that's not actually a response to anything I wrote. Apologies then, I must have misinterpreted you.
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Feb 26, 2016 21:48
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Popular Thug Drink posted:it's really disingenuous to try to extrapolate from "in the case of the pakistani sex offenders, the majority of the sex offenders were pakistani" all the way up to "pakistanis are sex offenders" like the OP claimed or PC gone mad like the tabloids are screaming Speaking personally, the reason I bring up race is because the cat is already out of the bag. Whether anyone likes it or not race is already a central issue in this scandal, and the right is having a field day with it while the left and center-left are reeling. Cases like this give them powerful ammunition to stand up there and say, "See? Muslims are criminals, just like we've been telling you", and I want to emphasize the force of those argument and the insufficiency of telling people "Oh don't listen to that guy, he's just an irrational racist". In this case I think that focusing on the deep problems with the police and council response is a good line to take instead, but in the larger picture I feel as though the people that advocate my positions are losing the war of ideas.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:03
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SedanChair posted:They're reeling because like you, they've fallen for the trap the bnp/ukip/daily mail scum have laid. Instead of questioning why the police didn't investigate, you saw a picture of a fat wall-eyed Pakistani man and panicked. "This is it," you said to yourself. I didn't do anything of the sort.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:12
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Popular Thug Drink posted:so you're saying that leftists need to incorporate the irrational racist panic of people who don't trust immigrants lest those just dismiss leftists as overly politically correct Not exactly. I'm saying that leftists need to take the current panicked mood into account and recognize that the right is making real political gains, in part because their response is insufficient. As for the rest you're of course right and I'm not telling you what to do.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:23
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yeah sorry dude i'm not convinced that we can in any way accurately apply 'the truth is in the middle' to xenophobic racism or clickbaity tabloids which prey on the uneducated and angry You don't have to. You just have to come up with a response to that which convinces people, even if you hold those people in contempt for even considering that the right might be on to something. Not you specifically but if I'd heard one anywhere I thought was effective I'd be screaming it from the rooftops.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:33
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TheImmigrant posted:What I've read is that it wasn't so much a matter of police cover-up of sex abuse, but social workers failing their duty to report it. That's not true at all. There were failures at practically every level, including the police who would do things like arrest child sex abuse victims for underage drinking while not arresting their abusers, and basically the only organization in the whole borough who did their job was a youth outreach center called Risky Business.
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Feb 27, 2016 01:32
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