|
Bedshaped posted:The two person love-triangle is one of the most interesting aspects of the Superman mythos. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Aug 23, 2016 |
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 16:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 17:57 |
|
|
One of the few, few things I applaud about the DC stuff of late is not adhering to the whole secret identity thing. Lois finds out early on. Lex knows. That's an interesting dynamic and no matter how the rest of the movies go I'm interesting in seeing how that pans out.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:01
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:As far as I'm concerned, Clark lying to Lois about being Superman can be fairly consigned to the dustbin of comics history along with Irish West being a psychotic insufferable shrew. It wasn't a grand idea when the primary It works in Superman: The Movie where they're just getting to know each other, because you get Clark's internal conflict over wanting to show that side of himself. Once they're in a relationship, though, yeah, it's gross, and these movies are much stronger for just having them be in a relationship without all that Lois & Clark melodrama.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:03
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:It works in Superman: The Movie where they're just getting to know each other, because you get Clark's internal conflict over wanting to show that side of himself. Once they're in a relationship, though, yeah, it's gross, and these movies are much stronger for just having them be in a relationship without all that Lois & Clark melodrama. No no Superman is a paragon of goodness and righteousness and him gaslighting his girlfriend Lois Lane at every turn is totally okay because
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:05
|
|
|
Bedshaped posted:Re-watching Man of Steel. Movie starts very strong, collapses when it starts to form a plot. Nonsense words that don't mean anything. It forms "a plot" from the first image. quote:Also what a terrible decision to have Lois learn his identity immediately. The two person love-triangle is one of the most interesting aspects of the Superman mythos. Actually, it sucks. The tension from the secret identity is fun, useful, and good up until the moment Lois falls in love with Superman or Clark falls in love with Lois. Then it's creepy and nasty.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:06
|
|
|
The entire comic book movie industry seems happy to do away with secret identities. I'm wondering why; does it not play well in focus groups or something?
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:16
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:No way, doing "takedowns" by kicking people through plate glass is way more fun. There's room for compromise here; the Ballistic Fist from New Vegas It's basically a tiny shotgun attached to the knuckles triggered through hydraulics or something (like being punched).
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:18
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:Should Charlie Brown kill, or should Charlie Brown not kill? He should absolutely kill if that rear end in a top hat Lucy pulls away the football one more goddamn time. The game was on the line! And somehow everyone blamed HIM!
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:21
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:Having again watched the car chase scene depicted by the above gifs, Batman executes the gently caress out of those people. And it's all pointless because he puts a tracker on their truck right before he executes them. Since he loses their trail thanks to Superman's interference, and he ended up using the tracker anyway, there's not a real reason for him to have executed those guys. Also Batman hates guns because his parents were killed by a gun. Hell, Batman Beyond starts with Bruce giving up the mantle because he was placed in a position where he was forced to use a gun. I am glad he does. I am glad it makes you mad. It's an amazing feeling.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:24
|
|
|
Bedshaped posted:The entire comic book movie industry seems happy to do away with secret identities. The thematic implication of a secret identity is the inner life made real. Emotional circumstances like falling in love, or being a best friend for 5 years, expose that inner life. Only a very unhealthy person keeps people at arm's length like that. Now if someone is just writing a power fantasy character (like Silver Age Superman) then it really doesn't matter if Supes toys with his best friend and girlfriend, it's just another way for the reader to feel the vicarious thrill of being Superman and having absolute power over those around you. But trying to write an actual character with dramatic poles means that Superman can't do that poo poo. It makes Superman into a creepy weirdo who saves a cat from a tree for a stranger while simultaneously lying to, and loving with, all of the people he's emotionally closest with. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Aug 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:28
|
|
|
Drifter posted:No no Superman is a paragon of goodness and righteousness and him gaslighting his girlfriend Lois Lane at every turn is totally okay because
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:30
|
|
|
Bedshaped posted:The entire comic book movie industry seems happy to do away with secret identities. Along with the above, it's also a time sink. If you're going to have a secret identity, and you're going to do anything WITH that idea, it's going to eat up time in the movie that could be spent doing other things. Imagine another subplot in Batman V Superman being Lois investigating Clark to find out if he's Superman or not. That's ridiculous.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:32
|
|
|
Walter White's secret identity is the infamous criminal "Heisenberg"
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:32
|
|
|
Hat Thoughts posted:Walter White's secret identity is the infamous criminal "Heisenberg" I think it can be argued that, as the show progresses, "Walter White" is the secret identity and Heisenberg is the real character. (I haven't watched the last 1.5 seasons)
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:33
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Emotional circumstances like falling in love, or being a best friend for 5 years, expose that inner life. Only a very unhealthy person keeps people at arm's length like that. BvS shows us what a relationship looks like where you hide that much of yourself. It's Bruce waking up in bed next to a woman whose face we never see and voice we never hear.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:35
|
|
|
It could also be argued that the idea of proxy wars against another empire are dead so secret identities don't have the same cultural cache. No need to hide who you are no need to not be discovered.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:35
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:BvS shows us what a relationship looks like where you hide that much of yourself.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:36
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I think it can be argued that, as the show progresses, "Walter White" is the secret identity and Heisenberg is the real character. (I haven't watched the last 1.5 seasons) Next you will tell me Bruce Wayne is just a mask for Batman
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:43
|
|
|
Equilibrium posted:Next you will tell me Bruce Wayne is just a mask for Batman That's actually my favorite thing about Batfleck, the idea that he is just lording over people that he is Batman but they're all too afraid to say it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:53
|
|
|
Drifter posted:No no Superman is a paragon of goodness and righteousness and him gaslighting his girlfriend Lois Lane at every turn is totally okay because Having Superman be truthful with Lois about his identity and respecting her intelligence disrespects the Superman mythos. #notmysuperman
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 17:55
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:He could never kill Lucy, what is Charlie Brown without Lucy? That, and Lucy is on a higher plane of existence now. How could Charlie Brown take on a god?
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:02
|
|
|
Did anyone else never like the secret identity thing between Clark and Lois? Even when I was a kid I never bought it and when I grew older I realized how gross it was. It just didn't look good for either character. Showed that Superman didn't respect Lois enough and it showed that Lois was blind and bad at figuring things out. In Man of Steel at least it is used to show that Lois is a drat good investigative journalist rather than just saying she is.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
Jimbot posted:Did anyone else never like the secret identity thing between Clark and Lois? Even when I was a kid I never bought it and when I grew older I realized how gross it was. It just didn't look good for either character. Showed that Superman didn't respect Lois enough and it showed that Lois was blind and bad at figuring things out. In Man of Steel at least it is used to show that Lois is a drat good investigative journalist rather than just saying she is. Also Lois couldn't spell. Like it was a major character trait that this hot shot reporter doesn't know how to spell words.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:07
|
|
|
If I remember right, even Batman needed some time to uncover the secret identity of the sinister music store owner, A. Rekoj.
Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Aug 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:11
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The thematic implication of a secret identity is the inner life made real. Most of the superman I've read is post-John Byrne so I don't really know about the action comics history besides it being silly and quite misogynistic. Considering hope quickly Ma Kent is tortured and Lois Lane is dropped off of tall buildings, I don't exactly trust the film makers to use the lack of a secret identity for the benefit and empowerment of the female characters. It's not wrong for Kal to make the decision to embrace duty over Clark's own personal desires. Lois' agency has never been removed, she embraces her own duty to the journalistic world. https://youtu.be/J5Ie17iCu4o
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:18
|
|
|
Jimbot posted:Did anyone else never like the secret identity thing between Clark and Lois? Even when I was a kid I never bought it and when I grew older I realized how gross it was. It just didn't look good for either character. Showed that Superman didn't respect Lois enough and it showed that Lois was blind and bad at figuring things out. In Man of Steel at least it is used to show that Lois is a drat good investigative journalist rather than just saying she is. I still remember golden/silver age Superman comics where half the subplot between Clark and Lois was basically Clark: "This dumb bitch doesn't know I'm Superman." Lois: "Hey, I've been investigating Superman and isn't it funny that you -" Clark: *mind controls Lois* "Hah! Make me a sandwich, you lazy idiot!" and am surprised people could even have an attachment to half the characters that are famous. I mean, I'm incredibly overjoyed that the sexism has at least evolved, because holy gently caress comics were TERRIBLE.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:19
|
|
|
No, that was strictly a Silver Age thing. The subtext of that entire era is that living a life of leisure in the suburbs is boring beyond belief and would drive anyone insane.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:23
|
|
|
Silver Age Lois Lane drat well knew Clark was Superman she could just never prove it because the fucker could do impossible things and make her seem literally crazy
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:23
|
|
|
Bedshaped posted:It's not wrong for Kal to make the decision to embrace duty over Clark's own personal desires. You can make an argument for a Clark/Superman who rejects having a romantic life in order to focus on superheroing. This idea is, of course, discussed in BvS in the apartment bathroom scene. But it still leaves the "two person love-triangle" plot that we were discussing as pretty gross. Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Aug 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:23
|
|
|
The Dini animated series made his secret identity with Lois mostly acceptable because they were colleagues but not particularly in a romantic relationship in either identity, and he didn't make a game out of concealing his identity
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:24
|
|
|
I vaguely remember trailers for a French James Bond parody where they dialed up the casual sexism of that franchise, and now I kind of want to see that for Superman.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:25
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:No, that was strictly a Silver Age thing. The subtext of that entire era is that living a life of leisure in the suburbs is boring beyond belief and would drive anyone insane.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:27
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:I vaguely remember trailers for a French James Bond parody where they dialed up the casual sexism of that franchise, and now I kind of want to see that for Superman. That's called OSS 117 and it's amazing. Both of those movies are on Netflix, they star the same guy who did The Artist. Funnily enough they aren't just a straight parody of James Bond, they are based on a long running novel series that was the French version and tried to sell itself as more serious than Bond, completely sincerely. You could tell their agent was more badass because he was double ONE seven instead of double OH seven.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:28
|
|
|
^^^ beaten! Both those movies are great.Grendels Dad posted:I vaguely remember trailers for a French James Bond parody where they dialed up the casual sexism of that franchise, and now I kind of want to see that for Superman. Are you thinking of the OSS 117 series? HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Aug 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:30
|
|
|
Bedshaped posted:Most of the superman I've read is post-John Byrne so I don't really know about the action comics history besides it being silly and quite misogynistic. John Byrne's solution to the secret identity problem was to make Lois mostly not care about it. Drifter posted:and am surprised people could even have an attachment to half the characters that are famous. I was honestly caught off-guard by people flipping out about "Jimmy Olsen"'s death in BvS. I mean, I'm sure there are huge fans of Jimmy Olsen but...let's not pretend his loss will be felt. Especially with Jenny Jurwich still around, who I already like better. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Aug 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:37
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:That's actually my favorite thing about Batfleck, the idea that he is just lording over people that he is Batman but they're all too afraid to say it. Obviously the exchange with Clark doesn't happen at every gala, but you get the sense that it's more of a difference of degree than a difference of kind My boy's already got a post-retirement book deal lined up for a memoir called If I WAS THE BATMAN
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:45
|
|
|
Making Lois Lane into a good investigative journalist who doesn't have a weird love-hate affair with Superman-Clark respectively is one of the best things about Man of Steel. That poo poo would probably be extremely off-putting to modern audiences if it was included. I also like that the Snyder movies sideline secret identity poo poo for more important character focus. Bruce Wayne half-assedly trying to explain why he's in the server room - "Uh, I thought this was the bathroom....I like those shoes!" - was the best. I like that we saw instances of him doing important things as Bruce Wayne and not even trying to conceal himself, really. Same with the clip from the Justice League trailer and he's just standing there in a graybeard talking about wanting to recruit this dude who comes from the sea to fight evil.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:47
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:That's actually my favorite thing about Batfleck, the idea that he is just lording over people that he is Batman but they're all too afraid to say it. Batman! Batman! We've got Batman here! See, nobody cares. Nice glasses. What are you trying to look like, a secret agent?
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:49
|
|
|
MeatwadIsGod posted:Same with the clip from the Justice League trailer and he's just standing there in a graybeard talking about wanting to recruit this dude who comes from the sea to fight evil. Yeah, I like that Bruce Wayne's opening move with the Flash is to reveal that he's Batman.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 17:57 |
|
|
Also part of his characterization is making him Lex Luthor's counterpart. Just like you see LexCorp poo poo everywhere, you have Wayne Financial, Wayne Construction, etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 18:50
|
|