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MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Name: Arcturus
Race: Human Male
Picture: Third row, column 4 (dude in the vest)
Traits: Highly Alert, Woodsman
Skills: Training in Priest spells and Mage spells (maybe a point or two each?), plus Alchemy.

Arcturus was born in Exile to a merchant and has never seen the surface, but has eagerly studied the tales of the surface since he learned to walk. Expecting that Exile would return at some point, he studied everything the Tower of Magi had available about the surface - the flora and fauna, uses of various plants, and a little bit of magic. Unfortunately, all the time spent studying has ruined his sleeping habits for good and made him kind of...intense. Some would say a little too intense. It also limited his time to work on physical training, so he doesn't have strength, weapon skill or other physical attributes.

Completely random other topic: Why didn't Art ask for her allowance? That's like...25 gold or some worthless amount! You could practically stay at a moderately-priced Inn for that.

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MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



+4 Skrr'rrl
+3 Blue
+2 Matthias
+1 John
-1 Niurri
-1 Delilah

berryjon posted:

Yep. Pre-built characters have more starting Skill Points to make up for sub-optimal point distribution. I did as best I could with 60 Skill Points.
You can actually get around this by NOT deleting the pre-built and just draining all their skill points and re-distributing immediately in the party creation menu, then changing the name and character sprite. That said, it's mostly just a boost to the start of the game (basically giving you a free 2-3 levels' worth of skill points) and the default difficulty of the game isn't really hard enough for it to be necessary.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Tylana posted:

In the Exile games, I'd just have both/all3 of my casters get both Mage and Priest to level 7 as their priority skill point spendning. Though, it's possible this reduced the impact of their spells and reserves of SP (due to few spare points to put in Int and SP) and I didn't notice because I didn't have anyone to compare them against.

This is how I played too. It's very nice to never have to worry because your Priest got dumbfounded or your main Mage is running dry on SP.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I'm pretty sure that Jeff is working on Avadon 3 right now, and Avernum 3 will be the next project after that. Then presumably he'll start remaking the early Geneforge games and starting either Avadon 4 or some new series.

Most recent I've heard is that Avadon is stopping at 3, but can't recall if I actually saw a formal source on that.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I generally at least hit up the recommended starter dungeons (the ones in that little map you can find in Fort Emergence). They're convenient, and they're never going to be any more level-appropriate than when you're level 1! But there's certainly no need to explore the entirety of Upper Exile.

It's probably not a bad idea to do a little bit of Upper Exile since the starter dungeons are specifically tuned for a fresh party.

That said, nothing just outside on the surface is THAT dangerous so it's entirely feasible to skip Upper Exile entirely. There's also a quasi-starter dungeon right near Fort Emergence on the surface which can help you ease into the swing of things.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Mechanically, it's actually worth putting a spare point or two into Strength early on, even for people who will never use physical attacks. The carry weight limit for 1 Strength is pathetic AND Strength increases the HP/level you get, so a point or two can really help your backliners to survive. As you can see from the HP gains, people with 1 Strength are basically made of glass.

berryjon posted:

Priest 3! Huzzah! And one more point of Intelligence and 2 more into Spell Points. She'll turn into our next Peregrine with no difficulties at all!

Slander! Maybe she could have similar magical talent, but no way she'll have the proper level of refined sophistication to be in the same class as Peregrine IV.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



TooMuchAbstraction posted:

2) If your caster has 2 points of encumbrance, then they cannot cast spells. The Defense skill can mitigate this, but from what I recall it's a random thing -- you make a die roll, and if it succeeds, then you're allowed to cast the spell. Who wants to have a chance of successfully casting a spell, though? Keep your casters in light armor. Fortunately there's a fair amount of high-quality non-encumbering armor in the game.

IIRC, Encumbrance only applies to Mage spells, due to something about how Priest spells are just chanting prayers, which you can do even if you're totally immobile. Or, from a more meta-standpoint, "The system has a clear basis in D&D, where Paladins exist but tank mages don't".

Also, berryjon, you should totally show off some of the item descriptions. Some of them are pretty boring (e.g., just a description of what a Halberd actually IS), but some of them are so ridiculous they're entertaining.

Glazius posted:

Huh. I would have figured the caves would be straight newbie zones, but when has anything in Exile ever tried to present that kind of smooth challenge progression?
This is partly berryjon's artistic license and partly the fact that we chose a very unbalanced party (too few physical fighters, Chronic Disease, not enough Priests). With a more typical party, it's entirely feasible to run through about 90% of Upper Exile including Goblin Pit and Bandit Fort, plus a few assorted side quests and world encounters immediately upon starting the game. If you do so, you'll end up somewhere around Level 5-6 (depending on XP penalties) and be ready to basically steamroll the first few areas of the surface.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



berryjon posted:

Imagine if you will, that the Empire is the British Empire that never stopped growing, taking everyone else out in time, like one of those 'Global Domination' games of Victoria that people like Wiz wave to hold themselves back from doing. Only with added magic.

Valorim is basically Australia at this point - the farthest away you can get from the Imperial Capital, and still being colonized.

But one of the more benevolent policies of the Empire is "Is there a hostile monster in the area? Send in the Army! And a second one, just in case." That there are monsters attacking cities, with no official overwhelming response from the Empire is bad news for everyone. In fact, Garzahd was (legitimately) hailed as a hero for helping to kill the last known Dragon on the surface.
Another way to put it is that there isn't any large-scale ORGANIZED opposition anywhere on the surface. There are all sorts of pockets of disorder (bandits, mages with fortress/towers, backwater caves/valleys with monsters, even small rebellions). But in all cases, the problems are sufficiently small and localized to either (a) not draw notice or (b) not be worth giving a crap about.

This is the primary reason why nobody hassles you about being an Exile - The mere fact that there's a major province-wide monster plague that the Empire hasn't immediately fixed is shattering their sense of security. Compared to that, you're small potatoes.

berryjon posted:



If this looks familiar, it's because it's the prototype for the Job Boards in later games. And it's randomly generated! That means that you'll rarely see the same mission twice!
A few comments:
> They're randomly generated, but in general, there will usually be a mix between super close (same province), a bit of a hike (adjacent province) and way the hell away (basically anywhere).
> Jobs available are not in any way limited by where you've already been, where you just came from, or where you might be going next. Completely logical, but it's a nice avoidance of the typical prescient NPCs and crazy coincidences that you often see in video games.
> Rush jobs are exactly that. If you're accepting a Rush job, you better already know where the town is AND head straight there. The deadlines are always possible, but they don't give you much float room to screw around.
> Magical Supplies have very lenient deadlines, but they're also often relatively rare enemies (no "kill 5 common skeletons" or whatever). Again, this is totally unrelated to what you have and haven't done, so it's entirely possible to clear out dungeons ahead of time and have a lot of trouble finding the target creature to kill and harvest.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



The game is completely beatable as an Anama. It's notably more difficult because some key spells are much harder to use with regularity (Haste, Antimagic Cloud), but it's possible.

Also, as for cities, the time limit is very generous. You really need to screw around to lose more than a couple cities in the entire game. Note that some cities were destroyed before the game started so if you run across a ruined city, it's entirely possible that it wasn't your fault for taking too long.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



LuffyVeggies posted:

You missed a couple of things in the Goblin and Bandit dungeons, but the one in the Goblin is actually pretty hard to find (and is just something like 300 gold), and the other is that door you couldn't unlock in the Captain's room, so it's understandable.

It's really quite cool that you're doing the Scry Monster stats. It was pretty useless in Exile II other than spending 2SP to see how much health they had left, but there's a bonus they added to Exile III; any monster you scry once gets permanently added to a library of monster stats that you can use as a reference at any time.

Unfortunately, there are a few exceptions - some unique monsters/enemies/characters do not get added in. However, I'm currently playing through again with a limitation (only using 2 party members), and I've made sure to take a screenshot when encountering a unique non-recording character. If possible, I could post those stats when we come across them and if you've missed the chance to record it.

Can't remember if it's E3 or Blades, but you can actually exceed the limits of the menu if you Scry everything.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



One interesting note - while plot dungeons like this tower can only be accessed if you're told about them, you still get the set fights just by stepping on the trigger. Since they kinda make it a trend to have preset fights outside plot dungeons, you can accidentally figure out where they "should be" due to the monster groups.

Also, while a Priest's level 5 Flamestrike is overkill compared to the Mage L3 Fireball, it does work to destroy be slime generator. So if your group doesn't have Mage spells for any reason, you're not screwed out of completing the quest. Good design.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Glazius posted:

They're getting pretty serious with the slime thing. I suppose it's the first major surface plotline and Exile is where the real newbie stuff happens?

Yes. Most of Upper Exile random encounters and dungeons are just for gaining a bit of power before heading to the surface, though there are a few important events and long-term useful things scattered around Upper Exile.

There is one newbie dungeon right outside Fort Emergence though, in case you wanted to head straight to the surface. It's also worth noting that if you wander around a bit rather than making a beeline to Kriszan then to Jordan's Tower, you'll find some really wimpy low level wandering monsters. So it is completely feasible (and not really that big of a difficulty jump, honestly) to completely ignore the Upper Exile newbie areas and jump into the major plotlines immediately.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Gullwhacker posted:

Since I never finished it - Exile 1 and 2 both had three 'win' conditions, but where E1 kind of had them in any order - difficulty curves aside - E2 had a somewhat more strict ordering. (Crystal Souls before Garzy, and I'm not sure if the portal's also a requirement or not...) With that in mind - does E3 tend more toward the E1 model of Major Things To Accomplish, or E2's model of It All Leads Up To This? ...if it's possible to answer that without drastic spoilers, just a general sense.

As a note, Exile 2's final win conditions aren't actually in an exact order. There were a couple SPECIFIC requirements that overlapped, but you didn't need to the entire quest chain for any of them.

I might be forgetting something here or there, but the overall gist of it is as follows:

>Jekknol and Caffron can only be recovered after getting the relevant piece of evidence for each. Otherwise you're blocked by Magic Invisible Plot doors (Jekknol) or an entire frickin' army (Caffron). Jekknol also requires a couple Empire passes.
>Vyvnas-Bok is an entirely self-contained objective which doesn't require any other quests, nor impacts any other quests. Only requirement is knowing the password and having Magi Clearance for the teleporter.
>The Mass Teleporter quest is stand-alone like Vyvnas. It's an extended quest chain (Elderan's Tower, northern island Archives, teleporter itself), but the only requirement outside the quests themselves is the Orb of Thralni and a couple passes.
>You cannot kill Garzahd without (1) Magi Clearance, (2) recovering Caffron-Bok, and (3) talking to Rentar-Ihrno. The Blessed Athame is also a de facto requirement due to all the runes on the way, but I think you could theoretically skip it if you brought a crapton of healing. Recovering two Crystal Souls for Demonslayer helps a lot in the dungeon, but isn't actually required.

Also, as a general note, very little of the above can be done effectively without first getting Dispel Barrier (most likely from Limoncelli's Fort where you'd presumably grab Jekknol's evidence as you walk by, though you can also get Dispel Barrier up in the northern islands IIRC).

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



berryjon posted:

Dispel Barrier can only be gained in E2 through completing the Fort Emerald Quest and killing the guy with the Boots of Speed, there is no alternate location to get it.

I think I was confusing it with the newer ones - In Avernum 2 and the re-remake, Aimee teaches Dispel Barrier for free simply for finding her in the northern islands. Presumably added to give the player more flexibility, rather than being forced into doing Limoncelli's Fort early solely to get Dispel Barrier.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Stealing is very simple - Can you see any other person or creature? If yes, you're getting caught. If no, you're good.

Ways to keep people from seeing you:
1. Close the door you walked in through. Some areas put guards inside storerooms to prevent this, but this works a shockingly large percent of the time.
2. Block LOS with a Barrier. Fire Barrier works fine and is probably smarter so you can leave.
3. Block LOS with two adjacent spider webs. The Mage spell Web is perfect for this.

Also, while you could theoretically kill all witnesses before stealing, that defeats the purpose.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I'm pretty sure, but not 100% positive, that friendlies only care if you directly deal damage to them. But there's precious few ways to mess with friendlies without hurting them. Amusingly, I'm pretty sure dumping Quickfire in a town is not considered a hostile act so long as the initial tile is not on a friendly creature.

Note that dropping a Fire/Force Barrier directly on someone DOES do damage, so it does count as an attack. Instead, the proper way to block vision is to drop it on the square directly in front of them.

Casting Web doesn't do damage, so it's fine, even if one of the squares in the big cross gets them in sticky spiderwebs.

Edit: As a corollary, since Quickfire doesn't count as an attack, you can rob guarded storage rooms by (1) put a Fire Barrier on the entrance (2) cast Quickfire inside room, (3) wait a bunch of turns until the guards are dead, (4) loot the now-unguarded room. Of course, this is a LOT of spell points and a level 7 spell so it's fairly limited in usefulness - by the time you can do this, you'll have much easier ways to get money.

MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Apr 9, 2016

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Vil posted:

I may or may not have occasionally stolen some well-guarded stuff from Fort Emergence with judicious use of character editor-added Quickfire and Fire Barrier.

Worth noting that MOST of the well-guarded stuff in Fort Emergence can actually be stolen with Web if you're very careful about positioning.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



The Helm of Alertness is both (1) awesome and (2) oddly useless against the slimes. Unless you're running into the sleep clouds to cast your Fireball (why??????), Slimes can't actually put you to sleep.

But as a general thing, the helm is legitimately end-game caliber equipment - great defense and no encumbrance. And while Sleep resistance rarely comes into play, when it does matter, it tends to be really useful.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

One of the things I really like about this game is that the various plagues mostly feel legitimately threatening. Even the slimes, which are Cliche Introductory Monster #1, are causing major trouble, and are a believable threat both narratively and mechanistically
It helps that the time limit for the slimes to have some effect (even a minor one) is actually pretty tight. berryjon barely made it, despite ignoring most of Upper Exile and bee-lining his way through the province.

Also, the use of pre-destroyed towns like Colchis works well to show that they really have impacted things.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Whybird posted:

Not only that, but they're signing their work in a place that will only be discovered if someone breaks into their headquarters, murders their minions, and demonstrates their failure. That's not the point at which I would want someone to realise I was behind the plagues.
But it's behind a fake wall! That's so secretive! Except, um, anybody who gets to the Alien Slime has already found several fake walls to get there, so... :shrug:

Though, to be fair, it is actually entirely possible to miss this piece of information. Anamixander warned us to keep our eyes open for any evidence and the text box after killing the slime does say that you should figure out who the creator is...but there isn't a specific indication that "hey dudes, you should search the room". IIRC, the Mayor of Krizsan only cares that the slimes are stopped, so it doesn't actually prevent you from completing the quest or make the game unwinnable or anything like that. It does delay you from entering one optional (but interesting and rewarding!) area in Upper Exile until much later in the game though.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Few comments:

berryjon posted:

Now to find some place to offload all this stuff, because I forgot to back in Krizsan. :sigh:
The guy in Fort Emergence who gives you your daily allowance and a phenomenal quest reward for beating the slimes lets you sell anything.

Typos:

berryjon posted:

“In Contianment! Talk with Peregrine if you must, but she is secured!”
Also, the last line with the Denise "my amulet is worth more..." has an extra italics tag.

Edit: Just as a discussion point, the random item shop we saw here? With two very good shields, plus potential end-game quality armor? That only ranks as an average roll on the item generation for random shops. The way Random Item Shops work in E3 is that basically any non-unique item in the entire game can be generated, so you can get absolutely incredible stuff. Including, most notably, at least 3-4 items which are the best in the entire game for their respective slots/uses.

MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Apr 22, 2016

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



berryjon posted:

But still not all of them, hence the comment.

Can you call out the ones that we can't get into (further down the line if you'd like). Because I'm pretty sure that fixing the Slimes OR the um "Stuff of that Island Place" are all that's required to get into everywhere prior to the endgame.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Well, easier except for original-series basilisks (reremake basilisks just paralyze you). Why Vogel ever thought it was a good idea to give a monster a spammable ranged attack that can instantly kill your characters, I have no idea.
Two reasons:
1.) The original Exile games were very, very heavily influenced by old school D&D. Brutally punishing mechanics like petrifaction were totally in line.
2.) The mythology behind Basilisks is that they turn people to stone with their vision. Basilisks having the power to petrify is very common in RPG's for this reason - though usually in a turn-based game they would only get one attempt per turn.


LuffyVeggies posted:

Pretty much everything that you can't get into isn't somewhere you should be going until endgame anyways. A safe presumption - there's a huge lake in the middle of the continent. Assume that every town north of its southernmost shore is off-limits until later (and even that might not be accurate).
IIRC, once you finish the Slimes you can go literally anywhere except the very last province and one single town. Now it might not be a good idea to skip the middle 60% of the game due to the difficulty curve but you could if you were properly suicidal.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



You should show off what happens if you try to exploit the "unsettling lack of guards" by stealing or attacking someone. Let's just say the Vahnatai learned their lesson about proper security.

LuffyVeggies posted:



Yeah, that's for the doubters - she can and will kick your rear end from the Surface to the Abyss and back without even trying. At least, she could if it wasn't for that "sunlight kills her" thing.
Also notice the four Doomguards in the corners for backup. You know, just in case.

That said, IIRC, you *can* kill her in a straight fight if you're crazy enough to try and overpowered enough to do so.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



The Lone Badger posted:

I thought the reason Exile had so many mages wasn't that they were disproportionately exiled, but rather that what magical lore did end up down there was thrown open to be taught to anyone who wanted whereas the Empire places strict legal restrictions.

It's actually kind of both.
1.) Mages, by their very nature, tend to be arrogant, feared or just generally odd. So they do tend to get Exiled at a greater rate than the regular population since "not fitting in" is a crime.
2.) A decent number of Mages did intentionally try to get sent down to Exile, for the freedom to study whatever they wanted, research however they wanted and teach for money if they choose.

As a related comment, while you might THINK that being a Mage with highly valuable skills would be a good incentive for the Empire to keep you around, it doesn't seem like that's the case.

berryjon: Paulo's intro has "strangely" written twice. And you should keep counting the Merry's - I don't know the exact number but I'm pretty sure it's on the order of like 30.

MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 01:47 on May 1, 2016

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Glazius posted:

I like how restrained the use of multi-sprite monsters has been so far. But I suppose it's going to be super-common near the end of the game since that usually involves giants, right?

FWIW, whether a monster is only one tile or multiple tiles isn't completely correlated to strength - A multiple tile monster is usually pretty strong, but some of the nastiest monsters in the game are single sprite.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



You can actually walk across the water to this island (or a different one right nearby? can't really tell from your pic if it's the same one) to snag an interesting unique item.

Also, the teleporter service is huge for saving time. It was so useful that a refined version became a staple in the second Avernum trilogy (4 to 6).

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



The real problem is that the questions are often pretty lame. "Magic can do good but it can also do evil. Do you agree?" Um yeah, no poo poo - there's no way to honestly say No here. Of course, the same could be said for physical weapons, Priest spells, poisons, and basically anything else humans have ever made.

Random_Username posted:

"
I don't officially know if there are ways to actually join the Anima if you fail their tests too many times, but you will still be able to get fake Anima rings later. Fake rings, as far as I know, allow you to act as Anima for all events except venturing up to the second floor of the church, which leads to the discovery of your forgery and the disintegration of your fakes. No free priest spells and no opportunity to loot the vault unless you join the club properly...
Actually, you still can go to the upper floors and loot it (of course they get mad though - you're robbing them!). The only thing that fakes prevent you from doing is reading the books because magic books apparently know the difference.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Not that I disagree with your post, but I believe "magic" in this case is specifically meant to be "things caused or created by a mage practicing arcane magics". Notably, priest spells (even though both mage and priest spells are called "spells" and "rituals" in game dialog) and alchemy are specifically exempted -- even though you can kill with priest spells and create deadly poisons with alchemy! Hell, priest and mage spells even use the same energy source (SP).
Yes. I can't remember if it's in this game or one of the remakes, but there's actually one Anama who specifically clarifies that Arcane Magic is their concern.

Part of the justification is simply the overall focus of the magic. Arcane magic as defined in Exile is all about killing and destruction - direct damage spells like Fireball, summoning Demons and monsters, Quickfire and so on. While there are certain Priest spells with similar capabilities, they're greatly outnumbered by the more benign magics like healing and protective magics.

Or, to put it another way: Priest spells can be used in many ways and for many purposes. Arcane spells can be used for only one thing - leaving a trail of bloody corpses.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



A Strange Aeon posted:

I remember a weird stone in the Giant cave where you rescued the dryad earlier that weighs a ton. Does that ring a bell for anyone else? What is it for?

Yes, it exists. I don't know the purpose though.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



LuffyVeggies posted:

I usually didn't go to the Point of Contemplation until later during the quest. I also don't believe there's any benefit to visiting there, other than the pool that cures diseases. Which I didn't use, because I thought it would cause disease instead.
The only reason it exists is to show the roach threat and make you feel a bit of urgency. There isn't any gameplay benefit - even the pool is pretty useless in practical terms since if you get diseased anywhere except the dungeon, you'll recover enough SP to cast Cure Disease long before you walked all the way here.

berryjon posted:

Normal Roaches are very easy to kill. Remember, the difficulty for the Roaches and the Slimes are supposed to be about equal. Completing one quest makes you too good for the other.
The stronger varieties of roaches (Mung, Giant, and one more we haven't seen) are a little tougher than slimes. So if you're coming here straight out of Fort Emergence, you could get yourself in a bit of trouble, but nothing too horrible. Also, since you get better XP rewards from Roaches, you get powerful enough to handle the island pretty quickly even if you're coming in with a fresh level 1 party.

Also, if you do Slimes->Roaches, you're overpowered, but can still have a few challenges and gives decent XP rewards. If you do Roaches first, there's no gameplay reason to ever do the Slime quest.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



berryjon posted:

Mind if I borrow this for the next trip back to the Tower? Have Solberg or Peregrine ask the party about how it's working, and the party going "What Spell?!?!"

Doing something without considering others is Standard Practice for mages. Selfishness is Wizardry 101!

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



berryjon posted:

And here's the Shayder Anama Question - quite reasonable, don't you think?


First off, the entire premise of the question is misleading, because it doesn't actually prove anything. It's theoretically possible to clear tangled thickets with your bare hands, but that doesn't justify humans never using a machete. The fact that you cleared the island by yourselves (with apparently minimal support from the Empire at large) is very impressive, but doesn't really prove that Magic should be eradicated.

Secondly, in this particular example, Mage spells weren't needed to perform a great deed. But the plural of anecdote is not data. Think of a lot of the other great deeds in the history of the world (as we know it) were heavily reliant on magic:
>Stopping Grah-Hoth required serious mage spells (both the first time and when Art, Peregrine et al did so)
>Mages basically made Exile livable and into a functional community. I can't remember the exact wording, but it's stated somewhere that the powerful mages sent down to Exile created the mushrooms which are the primary food source and helped spread the glowing fungus that keeps the place lit.
>Stopping the slimes required the Mage spell Fireball OR a Priest spell which is a carbon-copy of Fireball. Logically, if you hate Mage spells, a Priest spell that's the exact equivalent should also be off limits, therefore, the slimes should should still be wreaking havoc.
>I won't go into details (for obvious reasons), but stopping the Roach plague requires the use of a certain powerful Magic spell to purge the place.

Completely random side note: "battling goblins, ursagi, cold, and disease". Goblins, really? And the Isle of Bigail is a tropical island filled with jungles - is cold really that much of an issue?

MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 14:43 on May 14, 2016

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Ornedan posted:

A thing to keep in mind is that the player spell lists don't include many non-fighty uses of magic. There are some utility magics, but nothing major or long-lasting.

That's a fair point. It's implied very heavily (maybe even stated outright?) that PC magical training is combat focused. Many of the possible utility uses of magic aren't really practical for an adventurer on the go - binding stone for buildings is useless since you don't carry building materials, you don't stay in the same spot long enough to create a portal, you don't have the time to do anything research related like magically modifying food, you have too many different quests/jobs to bother with long-range scrying of any one particular target, and so on.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



berryjon posted:

WAND: "The Anama taught me that a sword is of only limited use when the others have more swords than you. That is why I no longer support the use of magic. [/i]
Wait, so something is only valuable if you're the absolute best? This is quite possibly the stupidest Anama-related argument yet (though to be fair, random NPC #147 can't necessarily be a theologian like a fully trained Anama priest). I mean, if you used this same argument for *actual swords*, Shayder would be ripped apart by monsters within a week - there's no way a guard force in rural Valorim can be as big or as good as the Empress' personal bodyguard, so no sense in even having an armed guard force.

quote:



He's WANDERED OFF. There is a distinct lack of 'no NPC' tiles in this game, which means that they can wander all over the place and you can and will lose track of them. Close doors? They can open them up themselves. Which makes tracking down NPCs a pain in a half. In fact, I actually catch an NPC at the end of the next update that I couldn't find during this initial pass through town.[/i]
If you had casted Web (to block the view of the other NPC on the other end of the room), you could have looted the chest that he normally blocks. No idea if there's anything worthwhile there though.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Cerebral Bore posted:

I think the point is that you can't rely on force alone to keep you safe in the long run when there are other organizations around that have far more force backing them.

Perhaps, but that's not how he's handling it. He isn't seeking additional methods to supplement the force, he's throwing away a useful tool for no gain. A Wand of Fireballs isn't absolute protection to keep you safe, but it's a good deal better than nothing. You might not be able to rely on force (or the threat of force) alone, but it definitely has a role to play.

Also, on a practical level, if you really wanted to prevent the use of magic, throwing the wand away and bragging its' exact location to every single random person in Shayder is really not helpful. In fact, he's guaranteeing that the wand will end up in the hands of someone that will use it - possibly for nefarious purposes like banditry.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

But if I'm some random sailor whose biggest worry is getting jumped by muggers in-between the flophouse and my ship, then carrying a wand of firebolts is probably all I really need in the way of self-defense.
Right now, I'd be more worried about the whole "giant roaches invade people's houses" thing than about muggers. Though magic fire wands are equally useful for either scenario. :flame:

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Typo patrol: One "o" in "to the east" right at the end of the update.

Also, you running into the potion seller reminded me of something I wanted to highlight from way back in Update 11:

berryjon posted:



[i]I really should just sell this, as I could use the 800 gold sooner than this thing stops being horrific overkill.
I think you're confusing what Skill potions do. Partially because their effect actually changed in E3 and partly because the description "affects skill in combat" is completely misleading:
>A potion of Strength, like from the potion seller in Shayder, casts Bless on you.
>A potion of Skill just straight up gifts you permanent skill points that you can use for training - basically like a free level-up.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



berryjon posted:

MOTHER%!)#(^%&*)(^!&*!(&^)(&

Alright, so the Strong Skill Potion gives me *8* Skill Points. And the Brew of Knowledge gives *2.

Well, too late now. But I'll be sure to note that in the future.

Sorry about not mentioning it earlier - totally slipped my mind until I saw the potion seller in this update.

Basically, there are four potions which give skill points:
Weak Skill Potion - +2 skill points
Medium Skill Potion - +4 skill points
Strong Skill Potion - +8 skill points
Knowledge Brew - +2 skill points

You get one free Strong Skill Potion from beating the slimes (as shown) and there are (very few) additional preset locations for Weak/Medium/Strong Skill potions around. They are not available from any typical shops, but can show up in Random Item Shops and are obviously worth grabbing.

Knowledge Brews don't show up in Random Item Shops, but they are available in endless quantities from one (crazy expensive) potion seller right at the start of the game (if you can raise the cash somehow). They can also be acquired in endless quantities from another method I'm sure you'll show off much later, but this method requires a large upfront investment of skill points before it can pay off.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012




Yes, it's terrible. However, similar to the other questions thus far, this doesn't prove the Anama's case.

Let's agree this result was terrible. This does not, however, in any way imply that all magic should be banned.
1.) The Mage was criminally negligent in performing experiments in an occupied house. This is why Mages are supposed to have laboratories or isolated towers. Involuntary manslaughter did not always have a formal legal name, but it's been a crime basically forever.
2.) Both the Empire and Exile put heavy restrictions on magic, because they know that this exact sort of thing can happen. The Empire's rules, in fact, are sufficiently draconian that the Mage was almost certainly performing illegal research.

So the Mage was a criminal in at least two separate ways. The answer to that is to punish the criminal, not to scapegoat magic. Do not blame the arrow, blame the man holding the bow.

MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 13:37 on May 21, 2016

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Cheez posted:

The idea is that it's really easy to get into magic and also really easy to screw up. The way the thread is speaking implies that the only magic that gets practiced is by "actual" mages, and that only "dangerous" magic can have consequences. In reality, any magic that hasn't been pegged down perfectly (like your mage spell list) is a recipe for disaster in one form or another.

Of course, this is exactly why magic is firmly controlled in both Ecile and the Empire. Magic that isn't by "actual" mages or that is experimental is highly illegal in the Empire.

Do you blame the knife for cutting your purse? Do you blame the poison for murder? No - you blame the criminal who used the tool illegally.

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MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



LuffyVeggies posted:

I think those stores there are always destroyed. I could be wrong, though - if anyone can correct me, please do.
I can't speak for those exact particular stores, but I can confirm that some stores (and entire towns) are destroyed before the game even starts.

Also the "Guard attacks Roach" can happen at any time too - they might be more frequent when you're closer to the hidden timer (not sure), but it can still happen even when you're well ahead. Fortunately the standard Guard is a fairly buff badass and can wipe the floor with a lot of monsters (check them out with Scry - it's kinda impressive actually).

On a totally different topic, that Steel Halberd is fantastic and true end game quality. I mean, there are a couple better weapons, but it is completely viable for the end game.

As for the Anama, it's a complete mischaracterization to argue that they just want to be left alone. "An entire profession and al derived quality of life benefits should not exist at all." That's the core of their philosophy! Not exactly the kind of argument that lends itself to live-and-let-live.

The current reality of the situation is that they're quietly and peacefully accepting things right now even for those who disagree, but its impossible to tell just how much of that is true tolerance versus simple pragmatism of not wanting to draw the Empire into play.

EDIT: Also, the Mage in Shayder directly states that they're trying to make her life stressful - though it's not clear if that's just quiet comments every now and then or something more serious.

MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 11:57 on May 26, 2016

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