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mobby_6kl posted:FWIW, a recent poll in the Czech Republic and leave won 53/47, although it was hardly very representative online poll so who the gently caress knows. Still, the more detailed breakdowns were similar to what we've see elsewhere - it's mainly the backwood hicks and olds trying to ruin everything. Somewhat surprisingly, the most/least favorite things between the two groups are very similar: free movement of people and goods is a plus, and everyone is mad about CAP, for example, so it's mostly down to priorities. Still, the country benefits from billions of Euros of additional income so they don't even have that excuse. Judging by that link it was a poll of readers though, which is a little different from what most people think of when they hear an "online poll"
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Jun 25, 2016 15:18
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mobby_6kl posted:Yes, but is there a different kind though? I thought they were all garbage anyway. After actually reading it, it also says that their results are about 10pp off in the opposite direction vs properly designed phone polls by other agencies. I mean it's still relatively rubbish, but something like yougov online poll research methodology. They've made a reasonably good prediction of the referendum for what it's worth.
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Jun 25, 2016 21:26
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As someone said in UKMT, we should have just machinegunned them on them shore. Or sent them to camps in Turkey somewhere (which we're already doing I guess? Yay!) It would've helped the openness of Europe a great deal I'm sure
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Jun 26, 2016 16:17
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steinrokkan posted:Yes, this attitude of "Admitting a problem makes you as bad as Hitler" is totally not the reason why people are currently so pissed at the elites and immigrants etc. and want to reverse progress on many issues just to show everybody what's what. Nothing about Hitler there at all. In fact it's more relevant to talk about emmigrants fleeing Nazis more than anything. What should have been done with the refugees? Should they have been wished away? Australian-style camps? It's not as if non-refugee immigration to Europe is exactly easy after all.
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Jun 26, 2016 16:22
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I understand it's a difficult question but at some point you're going to have to face it if you are saying, as George Soros did, that EU took in too many refugees.
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Jun 26, 2016 16:27
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doverhog posted:Saying the arrival of refugees and immigrants causes the creation of an underclass that has no legal protections is not an argument for letting them in. I mean yeah we never should have let the refugees in. Every sovereign nation has that right, it stands to reason after all. What do you mean that refugees have rights too?
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Jun 26, 2016 18:37
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Phlegmish posted:This is exactly what people are afraid of, that given enough time and unlimited immigration, Europe will effectively reach a state of equilibrium with the rest of the world. Wealth is not a magical, inherent, fixed quality of certain geographic areas, it is the product of specific societies with specific cultures and institutions. We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:28
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Nilbop posted:Are we allowed to talk about large scale unskilled immigration without it devolving into exactly this sentence or has the Left just ceded this ground entirely to the political Right? I don't know, I mean I'm not trying to steer it that way. It's the similarity that struck me The truth is, what else is there to do, from a left wing perspective? How is limiting immigration improving the world, unless you accept the premise that your own people come first? Private Speech fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 19:32
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Phlegmish posted:Putting up barriers is the opposite of globalization. Depends on what kind of barriers. I mean from a neoliberal globalised standpoint (at least according to the prevailing leftwing critique) the ideal situation is to maintain poverty in client nations and make them do all the dirty work for the richer ones.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:36
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Nilbop posted:Is that a yes or a no? I think he's saying yes, but don't be surprised when people bring it up as well Sorry I've had to spell it out
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Jun 26, 2016 19:48
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El Perkele posted:Ask Germans Let's just switch to American English instead, it's not like we're not already using it a lot anyway. I'd even say scots to spite the UK but it's too bloody hard to read
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Jun 26, 2016 20:58
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YF-23 posted:So you're saying fiscal transfers won't work because the wealthy northerners are racists who can only see the people of southern Europe as stereotypical lazy thieves? I would like to think the rest of your countrymen would be better than that. Well the rest of them, maybe.
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Jul 8, 2016 11:56
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Lol if you think that Brits would be onboard with helping Greece. One of the main arguments why not adopting the euro was a good idea is that the country didn't have to contribute to the already anemic bailout of Greece.
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Jul 9, 2016 10:48
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computer parts posted:Yeah, it only takes one dead toddler to cross the Mediterranean successfully these days. Presumably the idea is that you wouldn't have to do that. Regardless it's not that the cost of relocating is so much lower, more that huge parts of the world are much much better off (but still kinda-to-very poor in comparison) and therefore able to afford it.
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Jul 30, 2016 15:12
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Nitrousoxide posted:Maybe the EU should be more federal. The thing about the USA is people seeking asylum don't get dropped in the first state they land in. It's sortof been tried with that 120 000 migrant resettlement plan, but there's too much NIMBY opposition to it to do it on a larger scale. So what I'm saying is that yeah EU should be more federal.
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Aug 4, 2016 18:19
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Riso posted:
And that's the fault of Greece. Yeah. Got it.
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Aug 5, 2016 13:01
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you people. Greece is neither the closest country to Syria nor is it even adjacent to the regions most people actually come from. We know at best 1/3 are Syrians. Most are from North Africa or something.
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tsa posted:The immigration = good for the economy people seem to have forgotten that it's not the 50s anymore. What's automation, precious?? What's the vast majority of reputable research into the economic effects of immigration since the 50s, 'precious'? And explain why more babies is good for the economy but more young people in the peak of their fitness is bad. Keeping in mind babies are hardly engineers/doctors/scientists or good at the whole literacy thing. Leave cultural factors at the door please.
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Aug 6, 2016 23:26
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Rappaport posted:You sadly seem to be labouring under some rather, ehm, grandiose ideas about the influx of folks lately Nah, although some of them are. Just about all babies need more than two decades of education to get to that point though. Which was my point. And yeah more babies is in fact good for the economy (to an extent)
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Aug 6, 2016 23:39
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Ligur posted:Did some idiot really compare babies born to their parents to asylum seekers? Like REALLY? Yeah, I did. Economically we are talking about the same effects w.r.t. population. Unless Aryan babies are somehow superior. I mean yeah they might be 'more appreciated by their country' but that's just because people are racist cunts.
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Aug 7, 2016 15:30
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Andrast posted:The babies generally have more problems getting here though. There's a reason most asylum seekers who actually manage to come here are young men So what you are saying is that we should make it easier for families to come over? Anyway I was just pointing out that 'gently caress off we're full' is bollocks, not least because it's said by people in every country ever, regardless of things like population density, economy, etc. Particularly in places like Japan and Russia, which is pretty hilarious what with the ghost towns and all.
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Aug 7, 2016 15:37
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Ligur posted:If surplus population was an economic boon most of Sub-Saharan Africa would be super rich. Funny you should say that, sub-saharan Africa (as the most densely populated part of the continent) has about 50% lower population density than Europe as a whole, and only about a third of what western Europe has. Almost like it's not the major defining factor of economic prosperity!
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Aug 7, 2016 15:44
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Andrast posted:The problem with educating refugees is that their base education varies a lot and is often a lot behind the native schooling level. Even with good basic education, learning a profession is going to take a while, especially with the not-sharing-a-language problem. Well, yes, but native people require a lot of resources to get to that point too. In fact I'd wager it takes more years of full-time education for a child to become an electrician or whatever than it does for a refugee. That they are not offered full-time education (even if they do receive some) is more because of people like Ligur, not because they or the society wouldn't benefit.
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Aug 7, 2016 16:37
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Doctor Malaver posted:If there is economic benefit to accepting huge numbers of refugees - feeding them, providing housing, teaching them the language, educating them, giving them work permits - until they become independent from aid or return to home country (this will take years at least, possibly decades, and will never happen for many of them)... Why is there such a pushback from almost every country? Racism? That's all? From Cameron to Putin, from Saudi King to Erdogan - they are all wringing their hands looking at this valuable resource which would boost their economies. If only they could take in the refugees... But alas a portion of the population is racist so they can't. It's an interesting question. And after all there is a number of countries -including Turkey- which did take in a large amount of refugees. While the degree to which they've been permitted to participate in the civil society is limited (most visibly in terms of work permits) and they aren't being utilised quite as much as they could potentially be, many of the surrounding countries could have fought harder to keep them out (and some did: Israel, Saudi Arabia ..) It's easy to decry it all as racism (which in a way it is). And I imagine the societal dislike of foreigners can be quite a strong factor, as civil authorities have to try and be seen as "strict" to the refugees to some extent, otherwise they would have to face popular backlash. But on another level there is also the question of having the resources to "invest" into the refugees, with many countries surrounding Syria/Iraq/Afghanistan being quite dysfunctional and needing to fight hard for their own survival as functioning societies. This amplifies the effects of the previous point as well, but despite all this the civil authorities in surrounding countries have certainly taken in a large number of refugees. And I firmly believe that in a few decades or so they will be richer for that, at least if no ethnic cleansing happens in the meantime. I have personally gone to school with children of refugees who, and whose parents, are now considered 'upstanding' (meaning upper middle class) members of the community. They still face regular discrimination and abuse despite all that. Still though, the country has benefitted from their presence, however disliked they might be. In general the world would be a better place if people would accept foreigners among themselves. And the various times this has happened or been forced (American Chinese for instance) it led to happier and rich populations eventually. As well as a lot of opposition at the time. The main danger is that the wave of popular hatred reaches a point where all those potential gains are undone before they could be realised. e: fixed phoneposting grammar Private Speech fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Aug 7, 2016 |
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Aug 7, 2016 19:26
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Geriatric Pirate posted:It's funny how a country with 25% of Greece's GDP per capita and population, a country that isn't allowed to use it's proper name in international organizations and a country without a border with Turkey managed to stem the flow of immigrants to Greece from Turkey. Funny how different naval borders are from the land ones, isn't it.
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Aug 8, 2016 16:18
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I don't think dividing up the refugees and then deciding whether they get to stay on a country-by-country basis would work. All that would happen is that some countries would reject all the asylum seekers coming their way, to ensure they wouldn't have to house any. That is basically what Japan does. It's not they don't get any refugees, it's that they have 99 point loving 7 percent rejection rate. I think the process is a bit more regulated in Europe though, you wouldn't see numbers quite that bad.
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Aug 8, 2016 17:05
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Velkest posted:of course not. to suggest any terrorists would use Merkels open borders to enter Europe is racist. Well no, but saying that we need to close all the borders, batten down the hatches, etc. because of terrorist attacks, that have so far pretty much entirely been perpetrated by people who are not in fact refugees, is a hysterical reaction at best. It's pretty much the same as Trump saying that "Mexicans are rapists, thieves ... and some I assume are good people!" and using that as argument to cut off any immigration from Mexico into the US. There's literally zero reason whatsoever (beyond "common sense") to think that ISIS and other assorted loons would find it harder to perpetrate attacks if the borders were closed, given that they haven't really even used the fact that the borders are open right now in any of their attacks so far. I mean I'm sure it would marginally inconvenience them, but probably much less than millions of other people. And yeah I know it's stupid strawman but I can't help myself, and I've heard that same sort of poo poo said earnestly in person before.
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Aug 12, 2016 03:44
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Doctor Malaver posted:Brussels and Paris attacks were perpetrated in large part by people who had been fighting in Syria. They had to return somehow and it is safe to assume that open borders made it easier for them. Also the Ansbach bombing was perpetrated by a refugee from Syria. You mean the Paris attack where they planted refugee documentation, or the Brussels bombings, whose perpetrators, to quote the spiegel, "have all been raised in Belgium"? I mean yeah some of them did travel to Syria but unless you think we have open borders with Syria (spoilers: we don't) or are trying to claim they came in as refugees, well, I dunno. Fair enough about the Ansbach bombing though, guess you do get one refugee-terrorist there.
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Aug 12, 2016 12:58
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Huh. But still, unless we refused all refugees from the region it would be hard to stop anyone using that route into europe - and inevitably there are other routes as well, particularly when the terrorists have fake ids etc. as these did.
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Aug 12, 2016 14:49
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Look banning a specific type of clothes (past simplest modesty) is a loving stupid idea. And girls can and do look hot in burkini or whatever too. Even from the leery lecherous gently caress point of view it's fine as a variety thing? People just want to be lovely racists that's all.
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Aug 15, 2016 05:48
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AceOfFlames posted:Serious question. I am Portuguese and am currently working in the Netherlands. I really don't want to go back home since I cannot possibly live making a third of what I am making right now (medical bills) and I work in biomed, which has very little employment in Portugal. Yet I am worried about the potential rise of fascism in Europe. What should I do? You are lucky it's not Britain? It's not all bad in the Netherlands. I'm really not sure there's much that can be done, maybe agitate for people to be nicer back in Portugal at least.
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Aug 22, 2016 23:18
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Bedshaped posted:Then you're in the problematic situation of living in the US with medical needs. And more importantly you'd be an H1B employee. I'd rather stay in the Netherlands to be honest. Speaking of I'm someone who's an EU migrant in Britain and just lost my job for a biotech company. Not sure what I'll do, employers right now are understandably leery of employing EU migrants in Britain. Am thinking about Singapore, my girlfriend lives in Malaysia so... But then again it's not that easy to leave the place you've spent a better part of the last decade in, and I have very little work experience in practice.
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Aug 24, 2016 13:49
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Doctor Malaver posted:What!? "I'm a Portugese in Netherlands afraid of fascism" Ehh it's possible that he's faced some abuse recently. I have anyway, and the Netherlands can be fairly hostile to EU migrants as well. Even if not as much as the UK.
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Aug 24, 2016 14:52
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Doctor Malaver posted:I lived in Amsterdam for 6 months and talked a lot with Eastern European expats and never heard about a single problem from any of them. It's probably the best/safest European country to emigrate to, next to Iceland. If you get to the point that fascist gangs roam the streets of Amsterdam and Den Hague, then the rest of the Europe would have already been turned into a Mad Max wasteland long before. I was just assuming because of PVV and based on what he posted. For what it's worth my Eastern European ex worked in a cafe in Haag for a summer and she really liked it there so you're probably right. Now in Britain, I dunno. There's always been a lot of nasty xenophobia around, but before the referendum it was more directed at Asians(meaning Indian in the UK)/East Asians/Muslims, now I've been told to "go back home" several times (including by pizza delivery guy, which was kinda funny because I was standing in my apartment at the time) and had a drunken English nationalist rant to me about how he has English blood and how foreigners aren't entitled to be in Britain and whatnot else. Anecdotal but there you go.
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Aug 24, 2016 16:55
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Nitrousoxide posted:Did you call and complain to the store? May as well get that piece of poo poo fired. That was the first time it happened so I didn't, I was more shocked than anything to be honest. It was Dominoes for what it's worth, and he didn't really look like he has a lot going on in his life so I was a bit meh. e: As for the nationalist, well uhh I was drinking too and I didn't react very well, didn't get into a fight but he could probably accuse me of an assault if he wanted to. Maybe better to let it be. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Aug 24, 2016 |
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Aug 24, 2016 17:02
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Dawncloack posted:In Bulgaria a couple of years back the political class was having a complete meltdown about how unsustainable the refugee situation was. To be fair the UK got 38,000 applications in a year at the height of their supposed migration crisis, in a country of 64 million. e: Red cross stats Also note that the Bulgarian figure is only for part of 2015, the overall application rate for the year was around 12,000 AJE link (extrapolating from 10,600 for the first eight months in the article, to compare with the UK figure above). Now there are fewer refugees from previous years living in Bulgaria than in the UK, but it's not as if the Bulgarian response was uniquely petty. No I'm not Bulgarian or think it's a particularly nice country for refugees, for what it's worth. Just wanted to put it into context. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Aug 25, 2016 |
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Aug 25, 2016 16:06
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light blue and pink-red
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Aug 26, 2016 21:18
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Le Pen is going to round up all the Muslims in France and force them to march to Britain through the Chunnel. May then declares it an EU-caused public emergency that has to be met with the force of arms if need be and sets up a minefield in front of the UK exit. Despite all the refugees dying both sides are privately content with the result.
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Sep 4, 2016 18:41
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Norway confirmed as having the Best Monarch: King of Norway reigns on Facebook after diversity speech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvB0jZKRKrk quote:Explicitly backing gay rights, the king, who will be 80 in February, said Norwegians were “girls who love girls, boys who love boys, and girls and boys who love each other”. He also voiced support for religious diversity, saying Norwegians believed “in God, in Allah, in the universe – and in nothing”.
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Sep 8, 2016 00:27
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mobby_6kl posted:Luckily, it's not like any refugees want to come here in the first place unless it's on the way to Berlin. That's the most retarded argument I've ever heard (and yeah I know it gets said a lot in Czech to justify not taking in refugees). None of the refugees want to come here! That's why we have to reject e: apparently it's 65%, Luxembourg is the 80% Still it makes me really sad, Czech Republic has the most immigrants of all Eastern European countries (~400 000 in 2015) and when I was growing up there it used to be fairly cosmopolitan, up until the Syrian War really. I went to school (literally, albeit it was in one of the few bigger cities in the country) with refugees and children of refugees from Albania, (North) Vietnam, Syria and Afghanistan and they were never treated any different. Up until the last few years anyhow  - last I've spoken with the Syrian guy (he's fluent in Czech and works in graphical design) he now gets regular abuse and the Afghani girl had someone write to her university complaining about her masters thesis (words like "wahhabist" and "veils" were used).e2: There were several Armenians too, I almost forgot. One of them is now doing a masters at Sciences Po thanks to the EU 
Private Speech fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 11:55
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LemonDrizzle posted:Didn't realise we had multiple Czechs posting here. Since we do, what's the deal with "Czechia" - should we be using that instead of "The Czech Republic" or not? It's only an alternative name, not the only official one, or even the preferred one. As to where it comes from, they wanted to have an official abbreviated version to replace "the Czech", because Czech is strictly an adjective (as in even inside the country the usual abbreviation is ChR (čr)). The problem is that it has no real basis in Czech and most Czechs hate it a lot. Then again it's also really weird to hear people calling the country "Czech" at first and it took me a while to get used to it living in Britain. Now I see it as alright but /\  /\
Private Speech fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 12:24
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