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So I just received a job offer, kind of, and was wondering what you guys would suggest I do to get the most out of things. During the on-site interview, an interviewer asked my salary expectation and I was careful not to throw out a number, explaining that there were many things I would have to consider and I didn't want to unintentionally low-ball myself without considering cost of living changes, etc (this job is in a more expensive part of the country I have never lived in before). So today, HR emailed me essentially saying "congratulations, we would like to offer you a position! BTW, what are your salary expectations? Next up the hiring manager will call you with the actual offer. Peace out for now." So now, since this new job would require a move to an area of the country I am almost entirely unfamiliar with (relocation will be covered, I'm not worried about that), I'm not sure how to adjust what I'm currently making for cost or living, and then on top of that, I'm unsure of how much more to ask for to avoid making a straight lateral move. Additionally, while I like their continuing education programs (essentially a no strings attached, all expenses paid masters degree) and dental/vision, their health insurance kind of sucks and I would be getting less vacation days. What would you guys advise I do if my end game is to basically make more money (after COL adjustment and wanting to offset crappy insurance) and get the extra week of vacation I get now? I'm erring on the side of waiting to see if the hiring manager will call me with an offer first, but from their wording it's hard to tell if they're waiting on a number from me before getting that far...
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May 12, 2016 17:52
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So the dude that emailed me about the offer was out of office when I replied to him with my price point on Friday and now I have yet to hear anything back. At what point would it be acceptable to politely ask, "yo dude, you gonna reply to me or what/hey, did you even get my email while you were gone?"
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May 16, 2016 17:33
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:bro it's monday chill the gently caress out I mean, yeah, I get that, but it's kind of nerve-wracking just having an offer on the table without any kind of response since Thursday. And the Monday work day is already nearing a close too...
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May 16, 2016 19:35
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:finalizing some jabroni's offer would be pretty low on my priority list and would be the type of thing that i might have to circulate internally as well Fair enough, but I mean, it's not like I'm looking for the job offer itself right now or today, but I just kind of figured some sort of "We will take this into consideration and get back to you soon" or a simple general acknowledgement of my email would be in order. As it stands now, for all I know my email got buried in a poo poo ton of others the dude received while he was out and now they're just sitting over there thinking "well, I guess he wasn't interested in the job. Onto the next candidate then!" But also, I don't work in HR so I don't really know if this is just kind of normal or what. 
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May 16, 2016 21:48
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Dik Hz posted:Pretty normal. If you have an open offer, they know it. It probably needs HR and executive approval, which could take a couple days depending on the company. If you still haven't heard anything by Wednesday morning, go ahead and ping your contact again. Seems reasonable. Thanks for the advice!
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May 16, 2016 23:32
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:It's entirely possible they're trying to meet your number but need to up the budget / consult with someone / otherwise cannot execute that decision entirely on their own but still want to make it happen. Well the reason I was so concerned was because no number has been thrown out by either party. All I have right now is a "hey, we are going to offer you! What's your asking price?" and then radio silence since I bounced the "say a number" ball right back at them. Gin_Rummy fucked around with this message at 20:27 on May 17, 2016 |
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May 17, 2016 20:15
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baquerd posted:A good practice is to fake it until you make it on not giving a poo poo whether they come back to you. Maybe they never will because they only want people who lowball themselves, who knows? That is certainly a possibility, but I would hope they wouldn't be stupid enough to spend like $1500 on a person just to interview them and then say gently caress it when they don't get a lowball number.
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May 17, 2016 22:56
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TwoSheds posted:I don't want to add to what are clearly high stress levels for you, but just because somebody runs a business doesn't make them smart. Oh, for sure. I just assume all businesses are run by idiots, because for the most part they are. That was just the idealist in me speaking. I would HOPE they aren't that stupid, but they probably are.
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May 17, 2016 23:30
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Dik Hz posted:If you still haven't heard anything by Wednesday morning, go ahead and ping your contact again. So can anyone recommend the best way to approach this? Do I just make it brief with "just wanted to see where we were at kthxbai," or should I take a bit of time to show my understanding and mention that I know this process is generally slow, but at the same time I haven't heard a single word in a week? Would it be wise to add a bit of "get someone's eyes on this email" insurance by CCing the contact mentioned in their "if you need immediate assistance" out of office message, or would that be a bit too much?
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May 18, 2016 15:24
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Not Grover posted:Not sure if this is exactly the right place to ask, but it seems right. My girlfriend and I both work in the same industry and are looking to relocate. We interviewed this week at competing companies in the city we would like to move to, and both got offers. Because it's a little of a niche industry and kind of a small world, so to speak, my potential employer knows my girlfriend interviewed at the other company. I actually interviewed at two locations owned by the same person; one is specialty and one is more generalized (and in another town ~20-30 mins away). I'm more interested in the specialty place, and today received an email back with an offer, with the caveat that the owner would prefer that I not work in the specialty office if my girlfriend is going to work for the competitor (conflict of interest?). I kind of get it, but it also kind of seems like bullshit to me. I am going to sleep on it before I respond, but as I've never been in this situation, I thought I'd get some more perspective. Thoughts? I'm certainly no expert, but that seems like a load of poo poo to me too. Is there any chance you could counter that by committing to an NDA? Maybe that would be a compromise they'd be willing to give?
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May 19, 2016 15:55
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So it has now been a full week since I was given the promise of an offer and I didn't get a reply to my email used to attempt to initiate salary negotiations nor my "hey, you never replied, is this even still a thing?" email. Should I just assume they didn't want to negotiate at all, or is this still a normal thing for HR departments? 
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May 20, 2016 17:15
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TwoSheds posted:Have you tried calling the HR contact? I actually didn't think I had the dude's phone number, but it looks like I still do so I suppose I'll give it a shot.
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May 20, 2016 17:36
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Guinness posted:After a week I definitely would not consider it obnoxious to call for a follow up, especially if that's where they left the conversation. I dunno what the story is with this dude, but my call was not answered and the voice-mail box was full. 
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May 20, 2016 19:22
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Nail Rat posted:You interviewed at a front for a meth operation. I wish. At least in that situation I would've known from the vibe on-site that things would be sketch as hell. This is actually a major, multinational company.
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May 20, 2016 19:45
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Kalenn Istarion posted:What about trying the hiring manager and just going around HR? The manager is going to ultimately have more say in what actually happens anyways. HR is mostly there to aid in the process. This would have been my next step, but I interviewed with like four different potential hiring managers of varying departments. My "we are gonna offer you" email was so vague that they didn't really specify who or what department I was really being offered by. EDIT: Basically my only point of contact is this crappy HR rep, unless I get desperate enough to try the dude mentioned in the original "out of office" reply, or possibly one of the recruiters that helped set up the interviews. Though, I'm not sure they'd even be much help if I tried them. Worst negotiation ever. Gin_Rummy fucked around with this message at 20:46 on May 20, 2016 |
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May 20, 2016 20:21
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Well, after the longest offer negotiation ever (seriously, does it always take three weeks from the verbal offer to finalize the details?), I have decided to turn down the job. Their salary offer was well below my minimum and they didn't even attempt to meet me in the middle from my initial ludicrous salary "expectation," nor would they budge on any of the benefits or perks. Pretty disappointing, overall. Anywho, I wrote up a nice little email saying I regretfully had to decline and all that, but they've now replied asking for a reason and they're wondering if the salary was my primary reason. Is this standard protocol? I've never been in a position to turn down an offer, so this is new territory for me. I'm wondering if I should be truthful or if I should just give some BS "there were many factors at play" kind of response?
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Jun 15, 2016 14:52
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:What cost is there to you to telling the truth? None, I would assume. I'm just guessing there is also no point in trying to justify it to them, because it's not like they will care that it would be a paycut or that I would get less vacation, etc.
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Jun 15, 2016 15:32
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MickeyFinn posted:On top of what others have said, if you can post their response to your reasons for turning them down it might help the thread see the negotiation process from the other side. I'd guess the number one reason people don't negotiate is the fear of losing the offer and since you turned this one down, it could be interesting. That's a good point. I replied to them earlier this afternoon, and while I don't expect a response I'll be sure to outline it here if they do give me anything other than, "very well, thank you."
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Jun 15, 2016 23:27
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Any tips on negotiating in a previously planned vacation? Like, I have a trip planned in October/November, but their vacation policy probably wouldn't allow me to do that normally without first working a year or whatever. Should I just bring it up to the HR rep when discussing the offer?
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Mar 27, 2017 16:08
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Is money tight enough that you need to be paid for those weeks? Not necessarily, I don't think, but getting a week unpaid could be quite rough.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:22
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:PTO would be a tougher sell but certainly not impossible, especially since that's still 6+ months away. Do you actually know their vacation policy or are you just inferring from other places you work? Some companies reset vacation on Jan 1st and give new employees a pro-rated amount. Not yet, no. I'm going to ask the HR rep to send me a detailed benefits brochure before I accept any monetary offer, because that stuff matters to me as well. However, from similar companies, I know 2 to 3 weeks PTO is probably the standard, most likely going into effect after a year with the company. So, mostly guessing.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:32
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You know what, you're right. I think those other companies do have accrual during the first year, so I might not even need to worry.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:43
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Alright, just got my official offer after reviewing the benefits over the last few days. When I last spoke to the recruiter she said that the way they make offers is by weighing past experience, education, etc and then making what they consider to be a final number. She made it a point to say that "there won't really be much negotiation from this number." That being said, I'm ok with the number they're offering if it truly is non-negotiable, but I could have some trouble moving within a reasonable distance to work. Nobody cared to mention that this was a "local candidates only" position until then, so they aren't willing to offer relocation. Now, I am technically local, but it's about an hour+ away from where I currently live. What are the odds I can at least get them to buy out my current lease, or pay for a moving truck, or something?
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Mar 28, 2017 22:21
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Yeah, I was kind of thinking of going the signing bonus route as it would probably be easier. However, they didn't offer one outright, so im questioning if that's something they're willing to add in.
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Mar 29, 2017 02:04
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Alright, the vacation non-issue has been officially resolved and I accepted their offer! Now, can anyone recommend the best time to give my current employer notice? Am I in the clear now? Should I wait for the drug test/background check to clear? I'm not expecting any issues with either, but you never know...
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Mar 29, 2017 21:25
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Wait for all background checks and other contingent items. Your offer is not firm until that stuff is all done. I asked if I could wait for the background check to clear, but they told me that my current employer would be contacted through the background check... So how do I handle that? Never been in this situation before
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Mar 29, 2017 22:36
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Who does their background check company intend to call? Your boss or whatever random hr flunky? I'm not entirely sure, to be honest. If I recall correctly, the application had me put my current supervisor's name and contact info, not HR. But either way, our HR rep here is pretty untrustworthy and I'm not sure I would trust her to not say anything to my boss.
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Mar 29, 2017 22:43
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Exactly. So if the background check is going to contact her/my boss anyways, should I nip it in the bud and give them my notice before they're contacted?
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Mar 30, 2017 14:06
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Got to the negotiation phase with a company that is much closer to home than my current job, could use a bit of advice. Taking this new job would lead to a slight pay bump, a much shorter commute (~15 mins vs 45-60), and some pretty good benefits that kick in after 90 days. The downside is that it isn’t exactly a field I want to get into, on top of the fact that people there seem to work insane hours. Like, most people get in at 5 AM and stay until 6!or 7 PM. In fact, when I did my second interview on a Friday evening, most of the office seemed to still be there around 6 PM. For reference, the alternative to this is to remain in a contract position that really just consists of me driving an hour to work to sit on my rear end all day twiddling my thumbs. All that in mind, what are the odds I could get this company to make me non-exempt? I feel like if there was a threat of overtime pay looming, they would likely do their best to actively avoid keeping me past 40 hours in a week. That, or I would just make serious bank. They seem to be pushing really hard to bring me in to the organization, and I have existing employment and further interviews/offers to use as leverage, but despite that, i feel like going non-exempt is a really tough sell.
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Aug 21, 2018 13:32
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:loving lmao Hahaha, yeah, sounds about right. The job search continues!
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Aug 21, 2018 13:44
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Absurd Alhazred posted:New thread title? Yes please
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May 11, 2021 18:32
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stellers bae posted:I think this is accurate. I'm nervous about two things, a.) I really value my free time with my family and would definitely bristle if I had to routinely work outside normal hours, and b.) I'm nervous that I'm not going to be able to do this job well, and that it'll be harder to handwave that away due to the prominence of this role in the org. Unless it is explicitly stated in your offer that you have to work uncompensated overtime every week, just take the new job, work 8-5, make bank, and gently caress anyone who tries to tell you that you need to work more.
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Jun 8, 2021 20:20
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:that ain't really how it works at a Senior Director level at a professional services firm in the USA Coincidentally, it's probably also why I don't enjoy early promotions...
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Jun 8, 2021 20:36
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Dealing with a recruiter right now who straight up ignored me on the first pass when I asked what the budgeted salary range would be, and now he is trying to pass the anchoring responsibility on to me. Would it be too bridge burn-y to respond to “what is your salary expectation” with something along the lines of “every cent I’m worth, so tell me the budget or move along?” Or should I just stop replying to these chuckle fucks? The job didn’t sound too interesting to begin with and it certainly doesn’t sound like they’re the kind of company who would be paying me more than what I make now.
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Jun 14, 2021 23:15
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Does any of the recruiter advice change when I specify that this crappy recruiter is not third party, but that company's own internal recruiter?
Gin_Rummy fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jun 16, 2021 |
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Jun 16, 2021 22:53
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PIZZA.BAT posted:If that's the case it *really* depends on how badly you want/need the job. You should still have an extremely low bullshit threshold with any recruiter though, internal or external I don't badly want or need it, based on what I've been told in my initial phone interview with the people I'd be working with. But if it paid pretty well (hint: it almost definitely won't) I wouldn't be running away from it or anything. In any case, I basically just ghosted the dude because I was so pissed off at the gall of his response to my last email. Gin_Rummy fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 00:54
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Was just informed this morning that I will be receiving an offer for an internal transfer gig I had recently interviewed for. It is a lateral move, career transition sort of thing... I am going from computer touching, non-software field to 100% software engineer. That being said, my thought is that since I am basically going to be at the skill level of a new hire, I don't really have much room for negotiation... I know I get to keep the same pay/title grade, despite the lack of experience, so if they offer me at least what I already make or slightly more, I should consider that a win in itself, right? Getting into this field has been my goal recently and this role gets me right in there.
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Jul 9, 2021 16:42
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Yeah, that is basically what I was expecting. Figured I'd double check here first just to make sure though.
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Jul 9, 2021 17:39
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Is it ever really worth it to try asking for a promotion or raise at a current job when you don't have another offer on the table? Small bit of background: in the last year I successfully transferred from non-software engineering to software engineering within my company. I already knew I was underpaid before (~7 years experience as an engineer, $85k salary, peers with similar experience in higher pay bands, and not even a sniff at a promotion for myself in my time there), but now I am seeing my company hire kids with <2 years experience into the same pay band making at much as $10k more than me. I also have friends in the company with half my years of experience getting counter offers to make the same as what I make now. Obviously, the moral of my story is "find a new job, you loving idiot," and believe me, I am trying... but I have not had much luck there yet, and I would like to stop getting screwed from both ends if possible. When I did not get a substantial raise or a promotion in my review this year, I expressed dissatisfaction and sat down with the department head where he told me that "we are totally looking at mid-year changes for you" and that I am apparently the highest paid at my grade in our group, but most/all of it sounds like bullshit or part of the problem (at almost ten years experience, I really don't think I should be in this pay band any more to begin with). I've also checked the internal pay band ranges on our corporate tools and I can plainly see that I am still $25k away from the top end of the band. So without a competing offer, I obviously don't have any leverage if I tell my boss I need to be paid more, so is it worth raising any of these concerns again? Would it be the worst idea in the world to tell them that if something doesn't change they shouldn't expect me to be here for any of those "mid-year adjustments?" They are absolutely desperate for people, which is why they are paying new people so much, so I don't think I should expect any kind of retaliatory lay-off... but you never know.
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Mar 11, 2022 17:11
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Look you're probably hosed Yeah, pretty much what I figured. There are people in my old group who have it even worse as well... master's degrees and more years of experience making less than me. quote:Is there other stuff going on here? I ask because a software engineer should be able to be alive on linkedin and be inundated with recruiting calls. Not really any more than what I outlined. My BS is from a different field of engineering, which hasn't seemed to matter too much in actually getting interviews. I think the real issue is just that this company basically only develops CRUD apps in old tech stacks, so I just can't claim to have any professional experience in really much of what any other company in the world is looking for. I've had countless interviews at this point, but I can only guess that my limited experience in modern tools is holding me back. All I can do is build a portfolio, which takes time and effort and becomes increasingly harder the more my current job demotivates me. Perhaps another issue is that a lot of recruiters think that any engineer = software engineer, so I keep having recruiters push me to the interview stage on senior/principal/lead SWE roles and then as soon as the hiring manager sees my resume they're like "wtf is this." Gin_Rummy fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 17:40
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