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Guinness posted:Internal recruiters are typically 1000x better and more worthwhile than third party recruiters. Not always, but typically. I almost always at least read messages from internal recruiters from interesting companies, even if I don't follow up on them. What about people who seem just as skeezy but are allegedly recruiting for companies like Facebook and Amazon?
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Jul 30, 2019 01:04
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Guinness posted:Do you mean people that are lying and deceiving you, or is this just a jab at Amazon and Facebook? At least one is @fb.com, contacted me several times both through gmail and linkedin. Eventually had to tell him I'm not interested.
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Jul 30, 2019 01:39
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Also keep in mind that if it's not a bootstrapped startup then there's VC involved, and if the lead is more of a science than a business person, they may have signed a deal that gives the very unethical VC people more power. Overall, at (reasonable) worst you'll have industry experience and have been burned by one negotiation, two indicators of a higher paycheck in the next job.
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Aug 30, 2019 00:50
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Hoodwinker posted:It's not nice, but I don't know if I would call it mean. The purpose of this thread is not to be nice. It could be phrased in a way that isn't condescending and insulting. 
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Sep 20, 2019 21:41
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"I will be more comfortable with a traditional co-signed offer letter." If that's what makes them drop you you're dodging a bullet, I think.
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Oct 1, 2019 20:18
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Okay, I just found a very recent application they made for the exact position name for one I just got contacted by a recruiter for, that's going to be very good to know (although I will refuse to give them a number myself, and I also might have to adjust mentally for the lower cost-of-living in this area which is not SV). Thanks!
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Oct 16, 2019 02:52
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Boot and Rally posted:Be sure to scroll down to Section F: Employment and Wage Information and click on the work locations. Most companies are smart enough to create fake titles/positions/whatever so the range they put is the exact salary they are requesting. The company I work for submits the complete pay band. Looking closely they had two filings, with one earlier this year for more than the more recent one. Their range is $Max to $0, so not very informative (other than the real band being possibly between the two numbers in the two separate applications).
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Oct 16, 2019 13:53
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Especially if there's a kid involved, it's best to get it over with as quickly as possible, rather than draw it out and make you and your wife miserable, and the kid believe all relationships are a minefield of tension and poorly-concealed contempt. But that's more of an E/N thing, anyway.
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Oct 17, 2019 13:56
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I had a preliminary phone interview this morning with a general recruiter for the bigger conglomerate a local company is part of. Seems like it went well, and when he asked what I was expecting to be paid, I said I would need to know more about the specific responsibilities, environment, and benefits package, and wasn't ready to give a number. He took it well, no pressure or anything, which I hope is a good sign. The next step is a recruiter at the specific company, so we'll see where that goes. Thanks for drilling "never say a number", folks!
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Oct 19, 2019 03:13
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Vegetable posted:I had a phone interview with a large global corporation last week. When she asked me for my current and expected salary, I turned it around on her and asked her what the position's range was. She provided it. Shouldn't I want them to invest more time (=money) in interviewing me before I get them to anchor?
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Oct 19, 2019 03:51
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I feel like the only reason I'd accept pay bands in a company is if they're a union shop. Inflexible and no representation? Count me out.
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Oct 20, 2019 21:10
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I emailed back and forth with the internal recruiter for the local company I want to interview with. I gave him a relevant time range (before and after work), and he suggested a phone interview time that was just outside of it (when I normally would get to work). I asked if we could move the time so that it would be back in the range (half an hour before work), and he agreed without any pushback. Aside from it just being more convenient for me, I felt like it was important to insist on my boundaries. Was I right to do so? I imagine that if he'd say "no, HOW DARE YOU?!" that would be a good indication I want nothing to do with that company, but am I sending a message that I am too inflexible?
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Oct 22, 2019 00:18
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Jordan7hm posted:No you’re fine. Tim Thomas posted:you know how you act when you deal with clients? Like on your best behaviour, dot Is and cross ts, try to make them successful while maximizing your own value? That's a good way of looking at it, thanks! A bigger issue: previous times when I've looked for work I was very open about it with people who could be relevant references. Obviously this time I'm looking for an offer before even deciding to give notice or informing my current employer to give them a chance to match it, so I can't use people from my job, which I've worked at for several years now. Are they going to ask for references? What's the way to go about it if they do? Does it matter that their recruiter got in touch with me to begin with?
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Oct 24, 2019 14:56
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Again managed to dodge the compensation question, counter-asking whether they had a band. He said something vague about being competitive for the area, but no numbers. I did get some information about their benefits and work-life balance. Also got reminded that they moved somewhere that would make it difficult for me to work there without getting a car, so that's something to think about. Will be getting a more technical phone interview next.
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Oct 25, 2019 15:06
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Weatherman posted:Welp you guys sure did cover all the possible options, thanks for pointing me in a particular direction Congrats and good luck with the move and the job itself!
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Oct 29, 2019 01:40
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(/s)
Six weeks till I start!
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It's been a week since I had a phone interview with the internal recruiter for the company I was hoping to see about working for. Haven't heard anything. I did send the perfunctory after-interview email. I got the impression that things were going well, and that there was a next step involving another phone interview with a few technical folks, so this weirds me out. But on the other hand, while I'm underpaid in my current position, I'm comfortable, so I'm happy to wait them out and also look out for other relevant offers.
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Nov 2, 2019 02:59
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All right, so I'm kind of confused. I was supposed to hear back from the recruiter at the local company, but he never pushed forward the next round of phone interviews. Now the original overall company recruiter got in touch saying he's been kept posted about the process and wondering whether I was still open to looking at other subsidiaries on the West Coast. Seems like a kind of a weird way to tell me that they're not moving forward locally after all, unless I'm reading too much into it.
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Nov 22, 2019 03:37
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:The ways and frequencies that things go wrong working with recruiters is greater than the ways and frequencies that things go right. In this case it wasn't really up to me, the recruiter got in touch with me, not vice versa.
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Nov 22, 2019 14:44
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Do you also send your bank account details to every Nigerian prince who emails you? I'm going to reiterate how the process worked: I emailed back and forth with overall company recruiter (who has an email with that company), had a phone interview, seemed to go well. He then moved me over to the talent acquisition lead for the local company (who has an email for that company). We talked, he told me more about the company culture, and corrected me about where the company moved (which would suggest he at least knows that much about it), and then told me the next step is talking to two of the people working in the specialty I'd be expected to enter into. I hear nothing back for a couple of weeks, he emails me apologizing for the delay and saying they'll get in touch with me the next week, then nothing, then I get this email from the overall company recruiter which implies the local process stalled or failed. Are there red flags here I missed?
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Nov 22, 2019 15:05
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Vox Nihili posted:I'm an attorney. I got my current job via a specialist recruiter who reached out to me directly. The opening was unlisted (just one of her several relationships; she did not reach out to me for this specific job originally). As it turns out she knows the industry and my tiny speciality really well. I make a multiple of what I made before. Hearing people out can be worthwhile. Oh, I think I never did bring this up: after I talked about it here I sent a pretty anodyne email about how I'm happy to look at any other relevant positions he has, and he responded by linking me to the various local companies that might have openings, saying he'll put me first in the door or whatever. I didn't respond, and I had to go to work, so I figured I'd think it over the weekend. This guy then calls me at around noon, when I'm at work, where other people can hear. I immediately told him it was not a good time and he said something about keeping in touch by email before hanging up. Thankfully my colleague thought it was a spam call, but I was livid, and this guy is burned for me. I told him that I can only talk before and after work, and did not indicate that my current job knew I was looking, so he could easily have put me in a very unpleasant situation, which he should have loving considered. So, yeah, I guess Ike's right about how useless most recruiters are.
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Dec 7, 2019 04:42
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I feel that these tweets will appeal to this thread: https://twitter.com/humanworkplace/status/1206054039336574976
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Dec 17, 2019 02:42
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Hooplah posted:Thanks, guys. This feels like such a hard thing to decide on. In the phone calls, hiring manager did stress he has longer term plans for me if I stick around, with potential for increased responsibilities (facilities management experience being a possibility) along with commensurate increases in compensation. Honestly think I can trust him to follow through with my professional development. Back before I moved away I felt he was advocating for my future more than my last boss. Worst case scenario you're "stuck" being paid a bit over average for a while before finding a new job while you are no longer unemployed, which is a huge up from your current situation.
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Feb 6, 2020 16:32
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Inept posted:Yep, start looking for other jobs. If they're not willing to hire someone new and want to dump the work on you, the pay increase doesn't really matter. You'll go nuts doing two jobs and they'll save a bunch of money. This. There's no amount of money that's going to be worth it. Just look for another job. Leverage your experience handling that other aspect to expanding your job options.
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Mar 12, 2020 16:08
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My hope is that the crash course in remote work will open up avenues to some types of workers that weren't around earlier; no more need for relocation to jump ship to a company in another state/country.
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Apr 2, 2020 17:08
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spwrozek posted:I think you will see more remote work locally but not sure it will translate to long distance remote. I think you will see HR push back to go from operating in 1 state to 4 or 5 if you made that switch. I know plenty of companies do it and maybe there will be more tools available but it does get tricky. How do local laws apply, does the insurance transfer to that state, etc. I hope I am wrong though. There are several companies (professional employer organizations) that provide HR services as a co-employers for smaller businesses who are already well situated to deal with this. Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Apr 2, 2020 |
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Apr 2, 2020 17:36
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spwrozek posted:I totally agree with you. But whether companies want to deal with it or not is the question. Companies who aren't set in their ways like this are going to have an advantage in getting quality labor, I would think.
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Apr 2, 2020 17:56
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Dik Hz posted:There are absolutely things you can do without a BATNA, but those things aren't negotiating. Those are bluffing, begging, and lying. Given that this is the negotiation thread, I can understand why we focus on negotiation in here. Maybe the thread could pivot towards how to create leverage in a collapsing economy.
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Apr 4, 2020 01:37
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priznat posted:Hey thread, my co is rolling out a 10% pay cut instead of layoffs (as the official line goes). I’m in Canada and our labour laws require consent to cut pay. I’m wondering if anyone has been or is in a similar situation and if there is any good advice or even commiseration. If you are able to work from home, you are still doing the exact job that you were doing before, to the best of circumstances. The fact that they're immediately trying to replace your pay with bullshit non-compensation compensation is very suspicious to me. I would not accept any pay cut. Do you have a union? Do you have a way of reaching out to your colleagues that is not monitored by work?
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Apr 10, 2020 01:06
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priznat posted:I’m hearing some old school types are pushing for layoffs instead, as it was a fairly common thing at the company we were in prior to being acquired. Business quarter bad? Cut 10%! Etc. That seems a lot worse to me personally. Yeah, I think it's a bad precedent for you to set.
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Apr 10, 2020 01:51
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I think this is true primarily if you take on a new role somewhere significantly different in your organization, like from sales to operations or something like that. Technical writer product A to technical product writer B doesn't seem super compelling from that standpoint. Plus we're talking moving back to an old team. This isn't opening new vistas of experience..
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May 15, 2020 20:00
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Dumb Lowtax posted:Piggybacking on that, I have another company insisting to me that they're one of the special ones where negotiation is literally impossible. This time they're saying it's Hollywood that works this way, rather than the UK. Hollywood is where country bumpkins go to get fleeced, so I'd take anything that comes out of their mouth with a huge grain of salt.
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May 26, 2020 03:40
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Lockback posted:I don't see why name calling is needed but I'm working off the normal definition which is in terms of when you give an offer is an anchor. I guess I'll drop it since its gotten in the gutter. No, the normal definition reflects that the first number you hear in a certain context anchors your perception of future numbers in that context, and as has been explained to you repeatedly, the first number a recruiter has heard with respect to the position you are applying for is NOT the one you provide. The anchoring has already happened.
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Sep 15, 2020 01:20
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Had two initial interviews with companies this week. The first one didn't even bother asking me for expected salary, the second one did but didn't push back when I said I needed to know more about the position and the compensation package. First one was a recruiter who approached me, second was from a company I applied to myself.
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Oct 30, 2020 19:28
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Had two initial interviews with companies this week. The first one didn't even bother asking me for expected salary, the second one did but didn't push back when I said I needed to know more about the position and the compensation package. First one was a recruiter who approached me, second was from a company I applied to myself. Had my second interview with the recruiter for Company 1. We went over some basic technical questions about my background and the position, and then he did ask me about salary ballpark. I stalled (need to know more about the position) and counter-asked if he had a range, and he said it was against company policy to share that. So an impasse, but was still able to stand my ground about that.
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Nov 2, 2020 19:58
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Had my second interview with the recruiter for Company 1. We went over some basic technical questions about my background and the position, and then he did ask me about salary ballpark. I stalled (need to know more about the position) and counter-asked if he had a range, and he said it was against company policy to share that. So an impasse, but was still able to stand my ground about that. Double-posting because progress: had an extensive interview with each of the two companies, and am now scheduling/have scheduled the next step. The Company 1 recruiter hinted that I will need to decide which of their three regional offices (let's call them East Coast, Midwest and Pacific Northwest) I should be attached to, even though in practice it shouldn't matter until COVID has been beaten to the point where it would be advisable to work in person. Now he's said that by the next round of interviews I should make a decision as to which one of the offices I want to be attached to, suggesting he really wants me to be in the East Coast one, and that it might be the one most likely to lead to an offer. I asked for more information about the three, and he provided some, which I'm reviewing. I honestly think I prefer the Midwest one so far. What's my move here? I'm thinking "I do prefer the Midwest one, but for the right pay will be willing to go East Coast"? Company 2 won't require any relocation even after COVID.
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Nov 11, 2020 01:55
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I FINALLY got someone to name a range. I'm essentially one (big) step from an offer. He asked for my expectations, I countered with "well, you know what your budget is, so if you give me your range that'll help me figure out if this is a good match", so he gave me a range that starts above what I'm making now, I said that I think I have enough experience and background to fit with the top of that (which is above what I would have accepted to leave my job earlier this year). Now if I could only get a range from the other company...
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Nov 12, 2020 17:49
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Might a thread title change to "never say a number - never sign without one" have merit?
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Jan 13, 2021 01:53
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downout posted:Don't forget, a higher position comes with higher expectations/responsibilities. So being underpaid (yet at still a higher salary!) for all of that is still being underpaid. It's a bit of a red flag for me when my company says, "oh sure, we can pay you that, we'll just promote you up." There's an implicit sort of reality there where, ya I'm getting paid more, but being asked more. And with a new title that conveniently still underpays me! Also makes you wonder what vacancies they have, exactly, in whatever structure that they may or may not have.
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Feb 27, 2021 06:14
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Pandemic's not over yet so I'm not sure who in their right mind would be scheduling a face-to-face. Several states over, no less.
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Mar 3, 2021 05:41
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Inner Light posted:Are you familiar with Texas? I explicitly said "in their right mind".
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Mar 3, 2021 05:51
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