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I like this Joker better
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Jul 28, 2016 21:31
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Jul 28, 2016 21:50
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Nothing screams "classless" quite like hamfisting old mythology into a superhero movie because "they totally have the same origins bro."
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Jul 29, 2016 15:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsz-FC8RrCU
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Jul 29, 2016 21:32
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Fonzarelli posted:they seem like they shouldnt be No, Snyder's movies are the definition of vacuous style over substance right on their face. That used to be said about Michael Bay until someone actually put all his work side by side and recognized the nihilism motivating the genius technical chops and the clear separation between his paycheck work and material he had any interest in. Snyder's ouvre speaks to a frat boy who happens to be really above-average at visuals. A GLISTENING HODOR posted:CineD is The Neverending Story's lesser known Swamp of Retardation. But have you heard of lateral interpretations my nigga
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Jul 30, 2016 02:10
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I had a better time listening to these nerds talk about how lovely The Killing Joke was than watching any DC movie of the last 30 years because it feeds into my confirmation bias: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieqlo57CJWw
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Jul 30, 2016 02:15
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To be fair Tim Burton and Chris Nolan are overrated as hell in hindsight and all they ever really tried was Batman which is the pumpkin spice latte of superheroes for basic bastard boys. Batman is so flexible that while those guys did good work even a remarkably hack director like Snyder and mediocre actor like Affleck ( I like the guy a lot but it's true, he's a way better director than anything) can make him work. This is from someone who looks back on both avengers movies and thinks that whedon succeeded in spite of himself, mind you. I'm not looking to poo poo on Warner Brothers in particular. Suicide squad will clean up and Margot Robbie is going to make stupid amounts of money once Warner Brothers and her agent realize she's the only thing they've got that is 100% working across all demographics. I've never been a big harley fan but I get the appeal and Robbie seems to get what her job is. The rest of the movie looks like garbage. It honest to god looks like David Ayer couldn't afford a full lighting set up. Say what you will about the marvel movies looking basic but even in their physically darkest movies you didn't have to squint to get a sense of what characters are on screen. Hell even Bryan Singer doesn't fall prey to that in his Xmen movies and he's worse than Snyder. I'm still laughing at big Willie style in this though. I'd kill to be the fly on the wall of his trailer as he had to relearn how to not be the center of a movie's attention.
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Aug 2, 2016 07:07
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Y'know, deep down I really want these children's movies to be good because I love DC and even if it's not my preferred take on these characters to be all dour and "oh my god look at how badass..." money shots I would still love to go in and be pleasantly surprised. That having been said, the schadenfreude of consistently watching DC and the WB fall on their loving faces while managing to seem like they're trying entirely too hard on one hand and nowhere near hard enough on the other.... that's a solid consolation prize.
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Aug 3, 2016 05:34
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It's a cheap shot given that the screenshot shows 81 reviews vs. 330.... but this bit in the middle of a review of a completely unrelated review of that Eddie Murphy Haunted Mansion movie gives audio to what many of us have been feeling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT9gw6UR6To&t=791s
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Aug 3, 2016 10:33
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It's the only thing DC knows how to do anymore.
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Aug 4, 2016 04:46
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They even have the framework for the perfect suicide squad movie in that arc
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Aug 4, 2016 05:19
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When I see a Marvel movie I can imagine a wide swath of people who like it. Little kids, casual fans, turbonerds, even old people (no for real I saw two old people at the first Captain America movie's midnight screening and they goddamn loved it). When I see a DC movie I imagine a gaggle of teenage boys and manchildren who smell like the underside of a toenail brandishing the 3 or 4 assigned philosophy texts they were assigned in school like talismans to ward off even the thought that maybe they aren't the misunderstood geniuses they want to believe they are. Flesh Forge posted:He really does, and it's reinforced in BVS by Mommy Kent ("You don't owe these people a drat THING, you never did")  but don't you see it reflects today's America Superman was invented in the Depression as an example of a middle class ubermensch promoting unity in the face of tyrannical self-interested bastards? God that's not real. Who would want to believe that anyone powerful would ever be looking out for them when he could be looking out for himself. No I will not look up the definition of the word irony I already know it isn't that ironic?
mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 14:11
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:That's not storytelling. That's a comic a 5 year old would draw, not a film. Man of Steel is insulting to the entire craft and god help anyone that thinks it's anything other than juvenile, ignorant, talentless hack bullshit. "Zeus is boring because no one can gently caress with his lightning bolts, except maybe Ares and OH WOW WOULDN'T IT BE COOL IF ARES FOUGHT ZEUS AND THEN ATHENA SHOWS UP AND IT WAS ALL KERBLAM AND POW AS THEY HIT CRONOS but then Zeus dies because he's boring." "Here's 400 million dollars."
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Aug 4, 2016 14:36
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Civil War really did cause everyone to look back at the Avengers movies and go "wow we gave a soft pass to those two." The first one has a ton of awful stuff I can slag on but given how easily it could have hosed up (it could have been Mark Millar's Ultimates) I'm content to let it fade into memory. The second one.... jesus there really isn't an excuse for that. It's got lots of good bits, and it's remarkable it holds together as well as it does, but yeah as both an individual movie and as part of the wider Marvel movies it's kind-of an embarrassment. It's clear that Joss Whedon wasn't on the same page as Disney and he can be a big gay baby when his vision isn't the top voice in the room (it's why his only real successes have been on TV shows where he's been the head honcho fighting those dastardly TV executives). The funny thing is how obvious it is that Whedon wanted to make this dark, grim, nasty stress test of the characters while Disney wanted it to be a light-hearted romp... and in the wake of Civil War treating Age of Ultron as a hollow popcorn fireworks display where the audience wonders why the Avengers seem so unconcerned with loving up the world they supposedly want to save only to face the fallout a year later would have been the better thematic move. And I say this as an unapologetic Joss Whedon fan who unironically loves Buffy and Angel, and considers Angel's Season Five one of the best runs of television period. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 15:18
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Bro Dad posted:also probably the first superhero movie where the villain was intelligent and had a good plan Well, until you think about how he was possibly able to predict that so many moving parts would come together in a way he could take advantage of. Like yeah not forseeing Black Panther's involvement was his downfall, but how on earth could he have predicted that at any point the world governments or Captain America or Bucky wouldn't just die or escape or even chill out?
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Aug 4, 2016 15:24
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Bro Dad posted:cause theyre superheroes. he took advantage of their messianic complex to "get things done themselves" and come after him Of course, and that's why it gets a pass and most people love it. Hell I hope it blew some little kids' minds. All I'm saying is that at any point Bucky could have killed himself, Captain America could have helped him go deeper underground. Either one could have been shot and killed. Iron Man could have never gotten guilt-tripped at that elevator and been in a million different places instead of following Cap to Siberia. It feels like a far more fragile plan than "oh I'm relying on their egos to get them to follow my breadcrumbs" would suggest.
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Aug 4, 2016 15:35
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Yeah, no lie he was a good villain.
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Aug 4, 2016 15:47
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Tiberius Christ posted:WW better knock so out of the park that it makes up for the shitshow DC has cobbled together From the trailer no. No it will not. It looks like the worst parts of the first Thor and Captain America: The First Avenger, but with tits and requisite slo-mo. Also loving  if that is what Patty Jenkins felt too stifled by Marvel to do for Thor: The Dark World.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:11
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A Marvel Thunderbolts movie starring Tim Roth, Sam Rockwell, Daniel Bruhl, and William Hurt would be pretty loving awesome. Throw in some lady to be Moonstone or Songbird, maybe add a chick to be Toxie Moxie and throw them all against the Sentry just to twist the knife against DC a little more.
mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 19:51
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Groovelord Neato posted:the dc movies are poo poo and i love seeing them burn but i'm pretty indifferent on most marvel movies. the only one i think is great is guardians of the galaxy. that movie was fun as gently caress. Yeah the Marvel movies are legit mostly mediocre but they do manage to hit the goals they set out to hit, which usually boils down to "we want audiences to give a gently caress about this character no one but weird nerds have heard of" and considering the characters they've managed to sell that shouldn't be sneezed at unless you're some weird adolescent brat who has never tried anything difficult ever. The only ones that I feel go beyond those goals: Thor Iron Man 3 Captain America 2 Guardians of the Galaxy Captain America 3 That isn't to say the other movies suck, but they're either sloppy (Thor 2, Iron man 2, Avengers 2) or aside from the goal of selling the characters they don't actually accomplish all that much (Iron Man, Captain America, Avengers, Ant-Man). MinibarMatchman posted:holy poo poo I forgot about the Sentry and his whole hosed up storyline. You want a god complex in a box, his Void poo poo and his wife asking the Avengers to kill him is pretty nuts. poo poo, his calling card for years was literally ripping people in half. That's why throwing a Marvel Thunderbolts team against him is the best loving idea ever. You get them to fight a threat both worthy of a team-up and too messy for the Avengers to be bothered with, with the petty subtext of having them fight "Superman" who can't keep his urge to be a big dumb grimdark baby under control. It's almost too perfect. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 00:24
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Gatekeeper posted:seems like the general consensus is that while the DC live action poo poo has been a total failure, the animated stuff is actually very competent and good? Seriouspost: Nah. People like to say this because the DC animated series stuff tends to be of a much higher caliber as far as literal children's cartoons go--Batman The Animated Series, Superman the Animated Series, Batman Beyond, Justice League, Justice League Unlimited, Teen Titans, The Brave and the Bold, Young Justice, etc. are all worth a look if you're a literal child, a preteen, or have absolutely nothing better to do with your time. The DC animated movies are garbage dumps for projects that enough fans want to see adapted but nowhere near marketable enough to consider for live action with the notable exception of Suicide Squad. That's why most of them are just truncated versions of famous DC books like The Dark Knight Returns, All-Star Superman, the New Frontier, and Flashpoint: Paradox for some reason. I have yet to see one that rises above the level of mediocre. I recall the best one being the "Earth 2" one which was an aborted script for the older Justice League cartoon and it's only worth watching for James Woods as Owlman and Guido Ultraman. Watch these if you are too much of an imbecile to spend 20 minutes reading a comic at Barnes and Noble.
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Aug 5, 2016 03:07
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Gatekeeper posted:Thank you, i feel like people really praise this stuff and I usually wonder how much of that is rose colored glasses "this was so awesome when I was a kid! it is also awesome now that I'm an adult!" stuff. Don't get me wrong the DCAU stuff is a phenomenal and unprecedented accomplishment of serial storytelling considering it wasn't planned, and the highs are genuinely high (the Cadmus arc in JLU is easily the best DC adaptation outside of the 77 Superman ever), but even the best of it is still a preteen cartoon. What's funny is that the very best stuff is heavily weighted towards Justice League/Justice League Unlimited, but 99% of people you ask will mention early Batman: The Animated Series despite not having seen it in 20 years, which is historically interesting and has good episodes that ooze style, but has largely aged like processed cheese. Young Freud posted:I don't know, I liked the DC Showcase shorts, particularly the Spectre one with Gary Cole, largely because it was aping a '70s "grindhouse" styles, complete with grain filter and overexposed, bloomed-out look, and all the horror/slasher homages. The Green Arrow one's great because Neil McDonough makes Oliver Queen super-likable. I had forgotten those. Those indeed were pretty drat good. Neal McDonough makes everyone likable. Mel Mudkiper posted:how does batgirl wear a big lacy bra under her skintight batsuit When your peers are Power Girl and Wonder Woman, you have to find a way.
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Aug 5, 2016 04:00
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khwarezm posted:I think people get too wound up over the fact that its for kids. For most of history comic books and comic book characters were made with kids in mind, but fans are loath to admit this, especially with DC for whatever reason, hence Batman's constant juvenile edginess in almost all forms of media he's appeared in since the mid 80s. It helps to remember that "it's just for kids" has always been the go-to putdown for anyone who takes superhero poo poo even remotely seriously, whether it was justified or not, pretty much since the characters were created. It's the golden dismissal for people  -ing and legitimately discussing the work alike. So it's understandable why fans would grow up to be really tetchy about it.Even so yeah, DC and DC fans really seem to take umbrage with the whole thing. I think it's Batman. I love Batman, but he is the Pumpkin Spice Latte of superheroes (i.e: he's most fervently loved by the basic bitches). quote:I kind of like the way the old cartoons just ignore that element. Heck, a lot of the Marvel and Spider man live-action movies are only a little more complex, mature and gritty than the old DC cartoons and I'm not criticizing them for that. Well this is what makes the cartoons and Marvel movies good. It's counter-intuitive but the best way to make superheroes more adult, mature, and complex is to embrace that they are fundamentally characters for young children with a surprisingly robust mythological bent. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 5, 2016 05:34
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WhyteRyce posted:I'm sure this was explained already, but how did Batman have a dream about Flash coming back through time to warn him when he didn't know who Flash was or that time travel is an ability of his? Or does Flash have the ability to go back in time only via dreams? It's a textbook case of "the more you know about it the more you realize how incompetent Zach Snyder/his WB production team is." Way way back 30 years ago DC had a 12 issue series called "Crisis on Infinite Earths." It was basically the second comics crossover mega-event in history (Marvel's "Secret Wars" beats it by 2 years) and Crisis is still the high watermark. It was DC's first time hitting a company-wide "reset" button and easily the best. The whole thing plays out like a technical epic--i.e: huge cast, gigantic scope, immense stakes--and the Ragnarok of Silver/Bronze Age (old-school) storytelling because it was. If you want to read a big comics "EVENT" and only want to read one, make it Crisis because it's the only one I've ever read with any sense of weight. It wasn't this half-hearted "Rebirth" nonsense, no Crisis was DC straight-up euthanizing its old self.   To give perspective to how impressive an accomplishment it is from a narrative level even though it's a big dumb punching book about children's characters... imagine all of these different DC properties showing up in one movie and it working as a satisfying story:  Anyway in the first issue the maxi-plot is that strange poo poo is happening in all corners of the DC Universe. Entire universes of characters are getting wiped out, some weird Ren Faire dude named Pariah is showing up and freaking out, and on the "main" Earth the Flash is randomly popping out of a portal and freaking people out.   About 8-9 issues later the plot is more clear-- the big bad villain the Anti-Monitor is trying to destroy all the Universes because whatever, all the heroes of all the different earths have banded together to stop him so you've got like Atlantean Wizards, Cowboys, 3 different Supermen, etc. all doing poo poo together.  Early on the Flash was captured and imprisoned by the Anti-Monitor in his time-warp zone because reasons, and now has managed to get free. Because it's the Flash he decides to stop the Anti-Monitor's big death ray or whatever by running fast and in doing so we see how and why the Flash was able to appear randomly in Issue 1  And in doing so dies saving the Universe, which was actually a pretty baller move because Wally West got to be the Flash for about 25 years before DC decided "you know what gently caress development and evolution."  Now it's hardly Milton or Homer. It's arguably not even Harry Potter. But it's a nice little narrative and using the Flash as a sort-of time jumper has been a DC tradition since, especially since they've tried to re-do Crisis on Infinite Earths no less than 4 separate times even though it never ever works. -------------------------------- So of course it makes sense that before loving anything about the Flash in the new DC Universe is established we're going to immediately start jumping into having the Flash randomly show up out of portals... or maybe it was a Boom Tube... or whatever and gently caress with Batman (in a dream?).... Like the fact that it's failing to reference better comics stories is fifth or sixth down the list of reasons that scene sucks, but once you know it's doing that too you're left wondering what loving coke dreams Snyder is having to think that any of this is going to work from a narrative sense. To non-fans it's a non-sequitor and to fans it's like "wait why the gently caress are you doing that right now?"
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Aug 6, 2016 08:02
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9RVS8cjNN0
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Aug 6, 2016 08:20
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Got it from the Mod Sass thread.
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Aug 6, 2016 09:05
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Frankenstyle posted:Then you have the added problem where you have gently caress around with the DC characters to give yourself room to move them in an arc so they're not boring, and you have to do that without pissing off the fan-base. And clearly no one working at WB at the moment has a clue how to crack that nut. I'm telling you, going with a Titans roster where the overriding theme is "gently caress you Mom and Dad for setting an unattainable standard whose legacy I can never escape" is the best way to give everyone the breathing room they need. The WB and their creatives get to put their mark on young characters who haven't been codified into fossilized amber in the collective subconscious. The original Justice League characters get to be shown from a new angle that lets them show faults in their "too good to be real" personas without compromising their iconography. The audience gets to see things that are largely brand new to them but distinctively familiar. It's so obvious it almost hurts.
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Aug 6, 2016 11:34
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achillesforever6 posted:last couple of years; especially Secret Wars 2: this time not a blatant excuse to sell toys Uhhh 
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Aug 6, 2016 17:20
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It's ok even Spider-Man had to teach the Beyonder to poop:
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Aug 6, 2016 17:49
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Don Tacorleone posted:Comic books are such poo poo If Jackson Publik/Doc Hammer, or maybe Justin Roiland animated and voiced that you'd be all the gently caress over it. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Aug 6, 2016 |
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Aug 6, 2016 18:22
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Otisburg posted:MOS had the cool Krypton scenes, and I got a Fleishner cartoon vibe from him fighting the robot which was sorta cool. What was cool about the Krypton sequences? I never really got that, and I'm not talking about the generic "Avatar" complaints. The whole place just looked like a bad NuMetal cover come to life, the kind-of dreary "cool to a thirteen year-old" aesthetic you'd find in a flick buried on VHS between Titan A.E. and Heavy Metal 2000. I even prefer 77's Crystal blacklight Krypton to MoS, and I loving hate Crystal blacklight Krypton.
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Aug 7, 2016 13:02
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Otisburg posted:I guess I liked the big weird Planetary Romance kind of thing with pteradactyls and the weird metal voxel displays and poo poo, and how different it was to Crystal And Tinfoil Krypton. Yeah I respect that. I suppose it's the fact that it wants to be both romantic and on the brink of ruin that creates the dissonance that keeps pulling me out of it. The same complaint throughout most of MoS really, the fact that it is dealing with this romantic material that it constantly wants to undercut with pseudo-nihilistic thinking.
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Aug 7, 2016 13:20
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We know no one gives a gently caress.
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Aug 7, 2016 19:36
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Let's re-frame: The Marvel movies found a way to make Hawkeye, the Falcon, Ant-Man, Thor, Vision and the Guardians of the Galaxy work on-screen with most people while being astoundingly faithful to their comic counterparts. The DC movies struggle to reach general approval with Batman, Superman, and the Joker both relative to their comics counterparts and as original interpretations.
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Aug 7, 2016 20:13
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Don Tacorleone posted:Here's the thing with BvS - it's like 3 movies mashed into one The real funny bit is that all 4 stories are overrated as balls. 1. Death of Superman is a terrible story from top to bottom, even if the new faces in Reign of the Supermen were baller. 2. The Dark Knight Returns is important and not bad but it's also very much an "oh you're that kind-of guy" stories where you have to be super in-touch with your inner 14 year-old (to be charitable) or the kind-of person who is a little too forgiving of George Zimmerman (to not be charitable). 3. DC has been embarrasingly stubborn about trying to make "Justice League vs. Darkseid" this classic "thing" (they're totally not chasing Infinity Gauntlet's coattails guys stop asking) even though they never have a more sophisticated plot other than "Space Hitler comes to town and the Justice League hits him real hard." 4. Ok Injustice is actually kind-of fun, but in this deliberately trashy knowing way where you only try to play it straight if you've got a real hard-on for making Superman look bad (oh hey Zach Snyder what are you doing here you don't hate Superman do you?) Ron Paul Atreides posted:A lot comes down to direction. So far the ones the Russos have put out have been head and shoulders above the rest I maintain that Kenneth Brannagh's first Thor is underrated as hell. Dutch angles be damnded, dude managed to sell a character that BSS used to say was an impossible adaptation 10 years ago without changing everything too far from the Kirby aesthetic.
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Aug 8, 2016 02:01
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No no see "Space Hitler comes to town and the Justice League hits him real hard" is a much better plot because
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Aug 8, 2016 03:25
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Flesh Forge posted:I would have loved this. Hyper Bonus if he was actually black. I truly and deeply hate the Ultimates but aside from Samuel L. Nick Fury, Homeless Thor was the best thing out of it. Ooh they could do a black Thunderstrike with this origin. Flesh Forge posted:The best way to present the destruction of Krypton is the way Siegel and Shuster did: I agree with that to a point. I do like the idea of making it this romantic "lost place" that was only really lost because they were too comfortable to take warning signs seriously.
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Aug 8, 2016 04:15
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Frankenstyle posted:Wait. That was actually a thing? Kind-of. Initially Thor is shown as this hippie commune leader with delusions, then later he's shown to actually have serious mojo, but later he's shown to have a tech harness designed by human dudes, but then he's got vision of Loki which turn out to be true... it's a mess really. That's Mark Millar for you. They lifted some poo poo directly for the first Thor though:  Flesh Forge posted:Yeah but when you put all this unrelatable rubbish all over his background and make it a giant portion of the story, it really takes the character into some lovely territory. IMO the original Jewish immigrant orphan Superman fresh off the boat has so much broader appeal, like Spider-Man or Hulk, rather than all the weird crap DC spun off from it. Granted that would take away like, 10% of their content and characters (Supergirl, Power Girl, Zod, the Phantom Zone, the bottle city, all that extended poo poo) but those things all came at such a terrible cost. I agree completely that any movie should skip through the Krypton stuff at breakneck speed. If anything it'd be better for Clark to discover it as a teen/young adult so we only ever see Jor-El et. all in short glimpses. And quit making Jor-El a main loving character I don't care how much you paid Brando 40 years ago. Still it does need to be in there. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 04:26
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Serious Frolicking posted:making jor-el be smarter, braver and all around more heroic than superman is a real bad idea Young Freud posted:Even Alan Moore viewed him as a fascist sympathizing old coot, out of touch and ignorant despite his scientific acumen, in "For The Man Who Has Everything". And even Clark's mind filled in those gaps (which, despite respecting him as his biological father, makes me think that he subconsciously viewed him as inferior to Pa Kent). The more Kal-El knows about Krypton, the better. This is totally my bias, but I really like the idea of Superman as this story of a kid abandoned by an indolent upper class society only to realize his true potential when raised with strong middle class values. That's why all of his greatest enemies are wannabe masters of the universe with upper class values that fundamentally miss the responsibility that comes with power-- Lex Luthor, Braniac, Zod, Darkseid, Cyborg-Superman, Mongul, even Mr. Mxylsptlk (sic). Superman is the living embodiment of how even the strongest of us can resist corruption and work with others to build a better tomorrow, hence the "Man of Tomorrow" moniker. It's not realistic but it's not supposed to be, it's meant to be inspiring. Krypton is a place Superman should look to with some wistful regret. Like yes he'll always have a part of him that wonders and wishes he could have had a life on Krypton, but deep down he knows it would have been a poo poo life on multiple levels, and thus uses the ideal of Krypton as something to respect, honor, and strive for as one of the last Kryptonians. Which is why Libertarian Kents, Crapworld Krypton, Jor-El the Paladin, and all that MoS and BvS stuff rub me the wrong way. It's not even "real for real's" sake, it's just cynicism. Even then I would be able to get over that if the movie around them was any good. I might hate Spider-Man's organic webshooters but the movie around it is good enough that I don't really care. That's the problem in the end-- it's not the vision, it's the execution. Grondoth posted:Is that supposed to be as funny as it is Actually yes. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 05:03
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More like "Don't attract attention to yourself. Let literal children die because you don't want attention." /proceeds to make a giant melodramatic show of saving a dog in a tornado Good god that movie sucked.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:09
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