|
Original_Z posted:So I'll be heading to Myanmar in about a month for business, going to Yangon and Mandalay. I'll likely have some free time, so does anyone have any recommendations outside of the obvious pagodas and temples? A lot of the advice online seems pretty outdated as the country seems to have had some major changes in the past few years, and of course the new government has given people a new sense of hope. I went to Myanmar the year before last and only for a week but I'll tell you what I know. I went to Mandalay and Pyin U Lwin. Mandalay is a dirty and pretty dull town and... well it's boring. The best pagodas (and views) are from Mandalay Hill; generally you can rent a motorbike (with driver, not by yourself) or taxi who will take you round the main attractions. The pagoda at the top of the hill is stunning, there's a big long wooden bridge a couple miles out of town and there's the Royal Palace in the centre which has been renovated to make it look like it was built in the 70s. And unless you really really like pagodas then I'm afraid that's it. Pyin U Lwin is about 4 hours away by train, maybe a bit less by taxi, and is home to the National Gardens which are just incredible. They don't get many white faces up there so all the Burmese kids will be coming up to you and giggling and asking for a photo. The number of Facebook profile pics I must be on doesn't bear thinking about. Original_Z posted:I'm going to assume that our business partners will be taking care of me, and all of the Burmese I've worked with so far have been wonderful people, but exactly how far should I accept their generosity? I know that some Asian cultures may offer you the world but not actually expect you to accept their offers. On the other hand, since I'll be on an expense account, I plan to pay for all expenses and meals that I may have with them, hopefully that would be acceptable practice since I've had to fight over paying a bill before and it's always uncomfortable. No offence, and I'd be interested to know where you're from, because I'd have said that insisting on paying for everything is a pretty universal sign of arrogance. Where the money is coming from is irrelevant. Arguing over a bill is, or indeed anything, is outrageously rude in Burmese culture and is likely to alienate you very quickly. When dining with colleagues there will be a hierarchy of rank between you all (this is largely unspoken). One person will be the unofficial "group leader" (it may not be immediately obvious who this is but won't be you) whose job is to seat people in order of rank, generally the oldest first and then women and kids (you may fall into this category as a foreigner) before the middle aged men. Just sort of hang around and you'll be told where to sit. Don't start eating until offered; the dishes will generally be shared (many plates on the table in front of you) and you should either eat with your right hand or the cutlery which is offered. It's a largely respect-based culture so even if you're offered bizarre cutlery it's best just to use it (chopsticks to eat Indian food, that sort of thing, although the foreigners at the table will usually be offered a fork and spoon. A knife might materialise if you're extremely lucky, but don't actually ask for one). It is considered ridiculously impolite not to clear your plate. The unofficial group leader will tell you who is paying. He may ask you to leave the table with him and explain how to pay. The Burmese are very accommodating of foreigners and accept that you're different, so they'll keep you right - don't be offended if they inform you that you are paying, and absolutely do not argue. Now if you think dining with colleagues sounds difficult then dining in a casual setting is a clusterfuck of the highest proportions. It's considered rude to assume someone is hungry (that would imply they're poor) and it's considered rude to ask someone for food (that would imply they're your servant) so you can imagine how difficult it is to get a waiters attention. Enter a cafe or bar and the staff will immediately look terrified and scurry off and hide (that's an exaggeration but you'll see what I mean). Burmese do this weird kissing thing with their lips to get a waiters attention which will make you feel self conscious but it works. Don't be disheartened if you do it and the waiter seems to ignore you and glides past; he'll appear a few seconds later as if you never asked (so both of you save face) to take your order. Like many countries in SE Asia the menus will tend to show pictures of food so it's really just a case of pointing and smiling. There will always (without exception) be a flask of tea on the table and some small mugs. Help yourself, it's free (and probably considered rude not to drink it). The bill will never be brought to your table, you'll have to go to the bar area (where there will be nobody sitting, lol) and ask for it. Original_Z posted:Everyone says Yangon is ridiculously overpriced for what it is, any advice on that? It seems like foreigners can use Kyats now, is condition of the money important? Any recommended dishes or restaurants to go to? Condition of kyats is largely unimportant within reason. You'll have to bring foreign currency in and exchange it, usually US dollars, and they have to be in PERFECT condition. They won't accept some bills with certain serial numbers, particularly $100s, check online for the current details. You'll need to go to a bank to change it and show your passport; if the bank is closed or you can't find one then Burmese people are generally prohibited from handling foreign currency but you can change it in jewellers as they have certain connections to get it out of the country (probably because they're Chinese). This is Myanmar of course and it's Bizarro-Land so the exchange rate will probably be better in the jewellers! This is technically illegal though. I have no recommendations for Yangon as I didn't go. Burmese food gets a bad rap because... well, because it's just not very good! Original_Z posted:I'll assume that English ability is low, at least from the Burmese that I've worked with so far. How is it getting around with limited communication skills? My company is having me take a crash course in Burmese but I'm sure that won't get me anywhere near an acceptable level by the time I leave. Hopefully it'll at least be enough to kind of read the script and understand the pronunciation system. Getting around is reasonably easy and I'd say the English level is acceptable. I mean, if you enter a shop and ask for something the shopkeeper is going to scurry off and come back with his entire family a few seconds later, before pushing his eight year old daughter towards you and beaming with pride as she speaks to you in perfect English. Mandalay is built on a grid system so it's relatively easy just to remember your street name; roads running east-west have names and roads running north-south have numbers, so just say the number and cruise along until you find out where you're meant to be. Wikipedia tells me 5% of the population speak English; I'd estimate that rises to 25% in Yangon and Mandalay and falls to 0% in rural areas. A third of the population doesn't actually speak Burmese and taxi drivers (particularly mototaxis) tend to be from poorer regions of the country and just in the cities to work. So showing a business card of a hotel written in Burmese script may not actually work; although they'll probably speak Burmese they won't have learnt how to read it. As far as trying to learn the language, it's tonal. Good luck with that. Original_Z posted:Any general health or safety tips? Seems like I'll have to get a few vaccines before heading off, and dengue is of a concern. Seems to be very low crime from what I can see, and I have no intention to visit Shan State or any conflict areas. I went a year and a half in SE Asia without vaccinations (this isn't some anti-vaxxer thing; the risks are just massively exaggerated unless you're going to be hiking through a jungle barefoot in monsoon season) so that's up to you. You can't vaccinate against dengue and the most dangerous time is June-September so depending how long you're going for you might miss that. Just wear mosquito repellent and long sleeves if you're really worried. There are packets of vitamin powder you can get in Cambodia called Royal D, you just dissolve them in water (and they're delicious!). Myanmar must have something similar. Drink a few of them a day, they're perfect for dehydration and hangovers, and keeps your immune system strong to keep dengue at bay. There will be no question of visiting the conflict areas as the government is still committing genocide there. Don't drink the tap water and bottled water is plentiful. This suggests it's probably not a good idea to drink the ice either as it's probably made from tap water. There are pots dotted all over the place full of water and a little metal mug chained to them, they're maintained by monks for the general population. Drink at your own risk and I'm pretty sure it's rude to use them to wash your face with. Crime against foreigners is virtually non-existent. Original_Z posted:For business attire, it seems like it'll be bloody hot when I go there so what would be acceptable? I hope to avoid wearing a suit if possible, and maybe even get away with short-sleeved dress shirts. Also, for things like punctuality and the "flow" of a business meeting, what would be best? They like to get down to business, or spend a lot of time on greetings and personal matters first? Burmese culture moves slowlyyyyy and a quick google confirms it's the same for business meetings. Punctuality is everything though - if you're there to close some big deal and you arrive ten minutes late then you really might as well just go home. The thing they like to do is swap business cards; they'll approach you with the card in two hands and bowing very slightly, you accept with both hands and bow slightly too. Then you have to actually read it, make appreciative noises, before doing the same thing with your own business card. Mental. I wore short sleeves the whole time I was there. Women have to cover their shoulders but that's about it. I did a lot of research before I went because I knew it would be a completely different place to anywhere I've been before, but nothing compares to being there. It's a love-or-hate country and not for everyone, but the Burmese are cool and if you manage to massively offend them they are more likely to laugh at you than start shouting. Anymore questions, fire away...
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2016 13:13
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 6, 2024 07:26 |
|
|
Original_Z posted:Thanks so much for the advice! I've tried to do some research on my own but most of this stuff is completely new, and seems invaluable to know. I think the host will probably tell you. He'll know you're a foreigner and will keep you right. There won't be any rush to leave the dinner table either, they like to sit around and chat and drink tea for ages afterwards. Original_Z posted:On another note, should I assume that my business partners will be taking me out to dinner or around the town? Usually it's a pretty natural end to a day and I do enjoy entertaining, would it be better to suggest it, or even schedule in advance? Dinner is the most important meal of the day as it's an extremely social event. I think they'll have that sort of thing planned out for you. I'm not being funny here but I'm really not entirely sure if it would be possible to make a dinner reservation in Myanmar! Original_Z posted:Interesting, so it's unlikely that I'll be able to exchange Kyats outside of the country? I won't be coming with USD but Japanese Yen, can I just use that or would it be better to exchange to USD first? Seems like I'll have to really budget everything either way, kind of a good gig where you have to bring a lot of cash and exchange the excess at their rates. I'll be staying at fairly nice hotels, would they have currency exchange services? It's impossible to get Kyat outside of Myanmar and it's (technically) illegal to take any outside the country. The banks when I was there were only interested in USD and Euros, they didn't even know what Sterling was. This may have changed and this was just Mandalay; if you can't change Yen in Yangon I'd be amazed. Having said that, hotels will only accept US dollars and Kyat. One hotel I stayed at I asked if they did currency exchange and it was confirmed that they did. A young man appeared and asked me to follow him, I assumed to an office or a desk or something, but he walked me down the road to the bank and told me where to wait. I smiled and thanked him but didn't offer a tip partly because they don't expect tips and partly because he disappeared before I could say anything else. When I checked out a few days later they'd added an absolutely outrageous charge for this "service" to my bill. I just went to the jewellers after that, but YMMV. Original_Z posted:I'd assume the tea is safe then? How common are supermarkets or general shopping options? Literally everyone was constantly drinking tea and it never occurred to me that it wouldn't be. The beer is definitely safe  There are no big supermarkets like Walmart or anything. Think of Apoo's shop in the Simpsons, there's a few of them around. The brands are pretty weird and wonderful (mainly Chinese) but there's plenty to survive on. Original_Z posted:My Burmese colleagues have told me that they're going to overcharge me as a foreigner, they seem rather disgusted by the practice but told me that there's nothing I can do about it, even if I'm with other Burmese. Any comments on that? Yeh we got overcharged for virtually everything except food and drink which seemed to have set prices (haggling isn't as prevalent as the rest of SE Asia). Every evening businesses like hotels, travel agents, tour companies, even TAXI DRIVERS, need to phone the police (i.e the government) and tell them how many foreigners they had staying over or on their coaches or in their taxis or whatever. The government records that number and charges a surcharge to the business; they justify it by saying the government got them those customers by allowing tourists into the country, so they should be rewarded for it, but it's basically just good 'ol corruption. Needless to say the penalties for lying about how many foreigners were served or accommodated are pretty strict, and the government has a strong network of secret police and informers. Original_Z posted:Public transportation seems rather lacking, I suppose I'll be relying on taxis to get anywhere? I do hope to ride the circular line in Yangon as it seems like a cool way to get a view of the country and the people. I'll be taking a flight from RGN to MDL, and don't really plan to use the rail network for any other purpose. My Burmese colleagues said that I shouldn't take the train to Pyin U Lwin, but take a bus. It was the first thing everyone said when I mentioned Mandalay though, so it seems very much worth taking the trip out there. Now I think about it we got a taxi to Pyin U Lwin then a train to the hill stations to the north of there. It's definitely worth doing. In Mandalay it's taxis and motorbikes; they have those flatbed truck things that people sit in and you jump on and then bang on the window when you want to get off and hand the driver some money, but I didn't use them. There was certainly no such thing as a bus service in Mandalay when I was there! Original_Z posted:I'm going to assume talking about government is not a smart thing, but for example saying that I'm excited for the new government and hoping that it'll lead to a lot of opportunity or something to that regard, how would that go down? Best to just avoid it altogether? Yes. Original_Z posted:Thanks again for all the advice! It definitely gives me a lot to think about and be careful of. If the trip goes well it's likely that I'll be going back there on a somewhat regular basis, so I do hope to put on a good impression! No problem. I wish I could go back too 
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2016 15:42
|
|
|
Original_Z posted:It's absolutely fascinating how the government are the ones who institute ripping off foreigners, although I'm glad to know it since you can't get angry at people in that situation. Must be maddening to be an expat in the country. You mentioned that tips aren't common, would they even be accepted if offered? Well, everyone likes free money! The problem with tipping in the developing world is that if it becomes the norm for everyone to expect a tip then people will be more drawn to work in the tourist industry than to go to university and become doctors, lawyers, engineers etc. You'll find that people will be generally gracious for a tip but won't expect it and won't change their level of service towards you based on whether they have or will receive a tip. You also have to bear in mind that (currently) local Burmese aren't allowed to handle foreign currency, so it may be outright illegal for them to accept US dollars. Although this may have changed by the time you're there. Basically if you're in the US and you don't give your barman a dollar for every drink you'll see a notable drop in service. Whether you tip or don't tip a Burmese barman will result in no difference in service whatsoever. It will remain atrocious. Original_Z posted:I do like to bring currency back with me, so even though it's technically illegal to bring it out, will they actually go to the trouble of searching me or anything like that? I'd imagine it would be all right as long as I'm not transporting out large amounts. Yep, it's really just to stop people taking large amounts out and having a negative effect on the economy. Since the money can't even be officially changed anywhere outside of Myanmar I can't imagine it's a massive problem anyway. Original_Z posted:Also, back to currency exchanges, I probably won't want to bother with trying to find jewelers or whatever so is the airport the easiest way to do it? Should I even expect to get anywhere near the official rates? I really don't know too much about currency to be honest - and a quick google search tells me it's quite a bit different from when I was there - but I'd be flabbergasted if the banks and money exchange places weren't as close to the official rate as they could be, and that they'd even be any different. I do remember when we arrived and didn't change any money at the airport because "the rates are always terrible", but I did check the rate and when we found a bank it was pretty much the same. There are quite a lot of ATMs now - I remember seeing a few but nowhere near as much as Thailand or Cambodia - but ATMs rely on a stable electric and internet connection and I wouldn't count on them having either. Plus most of the banks probably haven't got round to the paperwork with all the international banks to make sure everyones debit card is going to work. To be honest in Yangon you could probably just use ATMs and debit cards and be absolutely fine. In Mandalay it's a bit more difficult, but everywhere else will be borderline impossible. Original_Z posted:Thanks again for all the help! Thanks, I am having to check what I'm saying with google searches but it's a lot easier for me to work out what's what because I've been there and can relate. It's one of the fastest changing countries in the planet though, so if half of what I've told you turns out to be rubbish please don't be mad at me
duckmaster fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Mar 31, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Mar 31, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
I've dug out the general tips I posted after I'd got back for someone who was also going, so here you are:
edit: I should say that I referred to khat in that last comment, but it's not actually khat they use (although the method of usage and effects are similar). They chew betel nut, wrapped in some sort of leaf, which gives an effect similar to nicotine. The main thing you'll notice is that it makes the users gums and teeth turn blood-red, so don't be alarmed when everyone you speak to seems to be bleeding from the mouth! Burmese people will be more than happy to let you try some if you ask, and explain how to do it (basically just chew it a couple of times then press it against the gum between your teeth and cheek with your tongue, repeat when it's dried out). It's absolutely horrific (and I smoke 20 a day!) but it's got to be done. If you ask for some in a beer garden they will bring you a bucket to spit the liquid out into (in the street they just spit it out onto the road), which is handy because there's a strong chance it'll make you vomit. duckmaster fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Mar 31, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Mar 31, 2016 20:44
|
|
|
Original_Z posted:This has definitely been my biggest problem in getting information, even blogs or travel sites written like 5 years ago seem outdated and I keep getting conflicting information about restrictions and currency. Certainly, once I get back I'll talk about anything that seems to have changed. The thing with gifts for Burmese people is that the emotion behind giving the gift is considered more important than the gift itself, so gifts are usually wrapped and not opened in front of the giver. Practical items are generally your best bet - if your company does nice branded pens in boxes that might be a good idea? They also go mad for whisky and the price of it there is insane so a "nice" bottle of Scotch for the head honcho of the company you're doing business with would no doubt get you remembered (I say "nice" because you could get a $300 bottle of the finest Scotch distilled from the tears of Scottish monks and they'd be upset you didn't get a proper Scotch like Johnny Walker). For the kids I'd say little toys or souveneirs from your country (I think you said you were in Japan?), anything that says Made in China is considered garbage so as long as it's unique it'll work. If you're flying with the Burmese airline it's going to be farcical. Apparently when I was there their booking system consisted of all the agents inputting passenger data onto their own individual Excel file, then at the end of the day faxing it to a central office who inputted all the data into a master spreadsheet and faxed back each individual agent telling them what they had to change the next day because they'd oversold on virtually everything. I can't imagine it's improved a great deal beyond that. Air Asia do direct flights to Mandalay from Bangkok if that helps any?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2016 18:55
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 6, 2024 07:26 |
|
|
I'm a bit late to the party here but just wanted to thank the OP for his amazing experiences and insight into Myanmar. Not much more to add, except that it's been fascinating!
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2016 02:43
|
|