UKMT April 2016: David Cameron's P19 Form

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT April 2016: David Cameron's P19 Form

Jrbg: May 20, 2014

Is the UKMT putting on a pantomime this year

e: 30 April noted Ken Livingstone sympathiser Adolf Hitler commits suicide

# ? Apr 30, 2016 16:14

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# ? May 2, 2024 08:57

Dead Goon: Dec 13, 2002; No Obvious Flaws

Going to have to send in the troops Pissflaps, they could come from Air, Sea or Land.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 16:19

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Dead Goon posted:

Going to have to send in the troops Pissflaps, they could come from Air, Sea or Land.

That has never been disputed.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 16:21

jabby: Oct 27, 2010

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/726426117788327936

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/726427310094729217

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/726427197528018944

Seems to suggest that the majority are either not taking a particular interest in this 'crisis' or don't believe it's too much of a problem.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 16:33

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Alternatively, over half think the Labour Party has a problem with anti semitism.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 16:37

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

I've got a problem with farts after eating kebabs.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 16:40

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

I have a problem with farts after going on a propa benda.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 16:44

Not So Fast: Dec 27, 2007

Pissflaps posted:

Alternatively, over half think the Labour Party has a problem with anti semitism.

22% is not over half, Pissflaps

# ? Apr 30, 2016 16:59

Hoops: Aug 19, 2005; A Black Mark For Retarded Posting

Not So Fast posted:

22% is not over half, Pissflaps

Jesus Christ don't do it, god drat

# ? Apr 30, 2016 17:00

OvineYeast: Jul 16, 2007; Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden

V. Illych L. posted:

labour didn't react quickly nor decisively enough

This is silly. It took them a handful of hours to suspend him, and summary expulsion isn't constitutionally possible afaik.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 17:02

ShaneMacGowansTeeth: May 22, 2007; I think this is it... I think this is how it ends

Dabir posted:

I've got a problem with farts after eating kebabs.

this is bad for Corbyn imo

# ? Apr 30, 2016 17:03

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

I think Labour kneejerked and reacted too hastily, actually. They should have at least figured out what the message behind the suspension is, what narrative they want to give. Instead it's left for the media to speculate what it all means, and for senior members of the party to have a very public shouting match. They should have gotten Livingstone into a room and given him a dressing down, and don't let him out until he signs a written apology.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 17:10

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

Pissflaps posted:

Alternatively, over half think the Labour Party has a problem with anti semitism.

Do the public care in any case? I don't think I'd change my vote if a party had a couple of notionally anti-semitic MPs among hundreds, assuming that the party itself didn't advocate anti-semitic policies.

Edit: This article has a list of the various tweets etc. in Table 1 if anyone would like a summary.

Prince John fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Apr 30, 2016

# ? Apr 30, 2016 17:13

OvineYeast: Jul 16, 2007; Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden

Fangz posted:

I think Labour kneejerked and reacted too hastily, actually.

I think this about Shah - she gave a full apology and the putative anti-semitic comments were from before she was an MP. Right now I think Livingstone can gently caress off.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 17:13

distortion park: Apr 25, 2011

Not So Fast posted:

22% is not over half, Pissflaps

erm...

# ? Apr 30, 2016 17:27

OvineYeast: Jul 16, 2007; Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden

pointsofdata posted:

erm...

Well, yes, but I think Labour has a relatively small (not sure I'd even say very) problem with anti-semitism, like all other British political parties, and I'm a down the line Corbyn loyalist. I don't think including them in the total is particularly enlightening.

e: I'm confused by the absence of a 'fairly small' option in that poll though - seems oddly asymmetric.

OvineYeast fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Apr 30, 2016

# ? Apr 30, 2016 17:31

NO FUCK YOU DAD: Oct 23, 2008

I see the media have been careful to keep the issue in perspective, focusing on Livingstone and not at all using it to paint the entire Labour party as being Britain-hating thugs in the thrall of dastardly Mussulmen. Christ they're laying it on thick.

It's all a series of identical falling over each other to tell us about Labour's nebulous "antisemitism problem". From the way they're banging on you'd think Corbyn had marched through Golders Green sieg heiling and a waving copy of the Koran.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 17:34

OvineYeast: Jul 16, 2007; Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden

NO gently caress YOU DAD posted:

I see the media have been careful to keep the issue in perspective, focusing on Livingstone and not at all using it to paint the entire Labour party as being Britain-hating thugs in the thrall of dastardly Mussulmen. Christ they're laying it on thick.

They've only got a week to do it before Corbyn does something embarrassing like come first in the local elections.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 17:37

Rush Limbo: Sep 5, 2005; its with a full house

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41_5fyqNbE8

# ? Apr 30, 2016 17:38

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Prince John posted:

Do the public care in any case? I don't think I'd change my vote if a party had a couple of notionally anti-semitic MPs among hundreds, assuming that the party itself didn't advocate anti-semitic policies.

Edit: This article has a list of the various tweets etc. in Table 1 if anyone would like a summary.

Wasn't there a UNDOF report that showed that Israel aiding ISIS in order to destabilize Syria, or is that also a conspiracy theory?

That doesn't excuse those comments on there that are calling Jews vermin or saying that Hitler is cool and good, but conflating "Israel is sponsoring some shady poo poo" or "violent ethno-religious nationalism is pretty bad" with "all Jews are terrorists" is what started this mess in the first place.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 17:42

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

Seaside Loafer posted:

I do find the whole antisemitism a bit weird from a personal perspective because not once in my life have I encountered any bigots mouthing off 'grrr the loving jews!' honestly. Beyond ww2 such people have not entered my awareness much at all. Plenty of 'grrr the loving niggers/chinks/pakis/non white people' but no grrr jews. Im reasonably sure I dont live in a total isolation unit, i didn't realize this was a massive thing in the UK. In fact id go so far as to say it isn't a massive thing in the UK and this is all a load of bollocks.

I've not met many, but I have heard it occasionally. The weirdest was a guy in uni, who was otherwise a decent enough bloke, pretty smart, did well in classes, could have a meaningful discussion on a lot of topics with him. Normally his issue was being as green (and as high) as a hippy living in a co-op in the 60s, but then out of nowhere he'd bring up how the Jews are responsible for controlling the world's economy and are deliberately destroying the environment.

Anyway, I maintain that Corbyn acted pretty much as quickly as he could be expected to, and given that Ken's a big ally of his in the party, if anything it's pretty impressive that the hammer came down within a few hours. There wasn't much time for vacillation or hemming and hawing, but here we god drat are acting like the Labour Party is a transparent front for Combat 18.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 17:43

HorseLord: Aug 26, 2014

Not So Fast posted:

22% is not over half

good enough to win the GE

# ? Apr 30, 2016 17:59

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Not So Fast posted:

22% is not over half, Pissflaps

No, but 52% is.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 18:11

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

NO gently caress YOU DAD posted:

I see the media have been careful to keep the issue in perspective, focusing on Livingstone and not at all using it to paint the entire Labour party as being Britain-hating thugs in the thrall of dastardly Mussulmen. Christ they're laying it on thick.

It's a good job Labour's new leader kept Livingstone on the fringes of the Labour Party.

Oh

Oh dear.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 18:12

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

Guavanaut posted:

Wasn't there a UNDOF report that showed that Israel aiding ISIS in order to destabilize Syria, or is that also a conspiracy theory?

I don't know, but you inspired me to google and immediately I got this article in the Jerusalem Post about Israeli-made weapons en route to ISIS. It doesn't say who sent them though.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 18:14

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Fangz posted:

I think Labour kneejerked and reacted too hastily, actually. They should have at least figured out what the message behind the suspension is, what narrative they want to give. Instead it's left for the media to speculate what it all means, and for senior members of the party to have a very public shouting match. They should have gotten Livingstone into a room and given him a dressing down, and don't let him out until he signs a written apology.

"Ken you're an idiot shut your gob" seems like a reasonable message.

E:

Though I'm not sure I think "the labour party has no problem with antisemitism" is a very clear option for a poll.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Apr 30, 2016

# ? Apr 30, 2016 18:28

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

OwlFancier posted:

"Ken you're an idiot shut your gob" seems like a reasonable message.

Unfortunately that's a personal observation not a principle for suspension from a party you can really use as justification.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 18:32

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

namesake posted:

Unfortunately that's a personal observation not a principle for suspension from a party you can really use as justification.

I am pretty confident that if you put it to a vote you could find a majority of people who will concede that Ken Livingstone either A) is an idiot B) needs to shut his gob or C) both.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 18:33

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Weirdly enough I think turning membership of a group into majority popularity competitions is a bad idea. Unite (or not) around issues instead.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 18:48

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

Unrelated to the Livingston saga, the government has managed to rile up another group to the point they are threatening to strike; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36176846

Beeb posted:

NAHT conference: Industrial action threat over academies
By Hannah Richardson BBC News Education Reporter in Birmingham

Head teachers have threatened industrial action over plans to make all state schools in England academies, after heckling Education Secretary Nicky Morgan at their conference.

National Association of Head Teachers delegates said ministers were simply not listening to their concerns.

Mrs Morgan's speech was met was cries of "rubbish" as she talked about the academies programme and testing.

"I hear the strength of feeling in the hall," she said.

The government has said that all schools will either have to convert to academy status - which sees them funded by the Department for Education but run by a governing body or trust independent from the local authority - by 2020 or commit to doing so by 2022.

What does it mean to be an academy school?

Nottinghamshire head Janice Turner urged delegates at the conference to back a call on the possibility of industrial action.

She said: "For a long time we've been bribed, we've been threatened, we've been blackmailed and we've been punished.

"We have no further means other than to say an absolute 'no - you can't do this to us'."

Head teachers highlighted the opposition to the plans from Labour and some Conservative MPs and councillors, and urged schools to get involved in letter-writing campaigns.

The union also said it would call for a public inquiry into the merits of the academies programme.

Mrs Morgan's appearance at the conference came as primary schools grapple with a new set of national tests for seven and 11-year-olds that are due to take place in the next two weeks.

The education secretary apologised for the accidental publication of the Key Stage 1 Sats spelling paper on a government website, revealed last week, as she addressed the conference.

And she said she understood how much change primary heads had been dealing with this year.

The benefits of mass academisation of schools are uncertain, says NAHT leader Kim Johnson

"I recognise there have been a lot of changes - there's a new curriculum, a new way of assessment and new tests," she said.

In a question-and-answer session after her speech, Mrs Morgan was asked if she would tweak the wording of the new English assessment, to be taken by half a million 11-year-olds, so that fewer children would be deemed to have failed.

Simon Kidwell, head of Hartford Manor Primary School, Cheshire, called for writing assessments to be judged more leniently to "empower the teachers to make a judgement that will reflect a child's true ability".

When she said she was not minded to make the changes, Mr Sidwell called out: "Are you in charge of the department or is Nick Gibb?"

Mrs Morgan replied angrily: "I am not going to dignify that sexist question with a response."

This was met with gasps and grumbles from heads gathered in the hall, who had previously been clapping the questioner.

Mr Gibb is the schools minister, and testing and accountability are part of his brief.

By Branwen Jeffreys, BBC News education editor

With an audience of head teachers it was never likely to be a highly rowdy affair.

But with their complete silence as Nicky Morgan walked on stage, low cries of "rubbish" and then loud outraged laughter as she answered questions, head teachers here at the NAHT conference in Birmingham made clear quite how disillusioned they're feeling.

It's not just the plans to force all schools to become academies, which will affect primary schools most, as few have chosen to go down that route.

It's also the changes, delays and uncertainty around primary testing which have left the Department for Education looking ham-fisted.

The education secretary said the tests were a vital part of raising standards.

Heads have been concerned the toughening of Key Stage 2 tests, the results of which are used to hold schools to account, would lead to thousands more schools being labelled failing.

Mrs Morgan said the department would hold the percentage of schools to be deemed failing virtually flat, at only 1% more.

NAHT general secretary Russell Hobby told reporters afterwards: "That's very significant. There's a lot of people who will have been thinking that tens of thousands of schools are going to fail."

But there was much vocal anger from delegates who believe standards have been made too hard.

Mr Hobby said he was "worried at the moment about the gap that's widening between the profession and the government".

He said: "Academy status is appropriate for some, but mere conversion doesn't guarantee success.

"What counts is hard work and a clear plan for improvement - both of which can be achieved without conversion."

He said the motion empowered the NAHT to press the government hard on the detail of the plans.

"The secretary of state has said her door is always open and that she will listen. Now she needs to honour her offer."

The NAHT has only taken strike action twice in its history. There was joint action with public sector unions in 2012, and a boycott over Sats tests in 2011.

Good job Nicky Morgan! You're gunning for Hunt's title as "Most tremendously condescending bellend in the cabinet", and doing a fine job of it, but you've still got a ways to go.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 18:51

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

I mentioned earlier that she had a bit of a meltdown over it. Refused to answer a question because it was apparently sexist. Which it wasn't, at all.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 18:53

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Prince John posted:

I don't know, but you inspired me to google and immediately I got this article in the Jerusalem Post about Israeli-made weapons en route to ISIS. It doesn't say who sent them though.

I found it.

It only says that the IDF has been in contact with Syrian rebels, and Israel says that these are the famous 'moderates'. The who keep defecting over to ISIS shortly after contact.

There's a ton of different news outlets offering opinion on this pointing to an IDF-ISIS link, from ones that to my knowledge are reliable like Haaretz through to RT and the standard 'anti-media' lot, but I can't find a single UK or US piece from a reputable source.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 18:54

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

namesake posted:

Weirdly enough I think turning membership of a group into majority popularity competitions is a bad idea. Unite (or not) around issues instead.

Ken Livingstone's gobshiteyness is a pretty relevant issue.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 18:56

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

serious gaylord posted:

I mentioned earlier that she had a bit of a meltdown over it. Refused to answer a question because it was apparently sexist. Which it wasn't, at all.

Ah, sorry, I must have glazed over that in among all the I/P (Israel and Pissflaps) stuff. :downs:

# ? Apr 30, 2016 18:56

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I also enjoyed the still frame from the beeb which also makes Morgan look terrified.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 18:57

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

OwlFancier posted:

Ken Livingstone's gobshiteyness is a pretty relevant issue.

Only if the Labour Party is telling him not to do or say these things and he is doing them anyway. Otherwise you're not applying principled procedures you're hammering someone because you don't like their attitude.

Like with danzucks suspension where he wasn't told the reason for suspension: yeah he deserves it but you've got to loving demonstrate it properly.

Also come on health and education strike! Let's get the firefighters in here as well and really gently caress the government up.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 19:15

Verizian: Dec 18, 2004; The spiky one.

In her defence every still image they show of her makes her look like she's just pissed herself out of sheer terror. Much like every image of Gove makes him look like a Christmas elf, 1800 days sober after decades of drug abuse.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 19:20

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/726479165235597314

:captainpop:

# ? Apr 30, 2016 19:38

Lord of the Llamas: Jul 9, 2002; EULER'VE TO SEE IT VENN SOMEONE CALLS IT THE WRONG THING AND PROVOKES MY WRATH

Pissflaps posted:

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/726479165235597314

This is an outlier poll on most of the vote shares. Don't get too excited.

To be honest I don't think we have the faintest idea of what's going on in the country. Polls need stability to have good weightings and, if anything, the last year has been even crazier than the year before. Next Thursday is going to be interesting.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 19:52

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# ? May 2, 2024 08:57

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Lord of the Llamas posted:

This is an outlier poll on most of the vote shares. Don't get too excited.

An 'outlier'?

Don't the majority of polls consistently show Labour behind the Tories?

# ? Apr 30, 2016 19:53

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