Ghost in the Shell: White Wash Complex

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Ghost in the Shell: White Wash Complex

SlipUp: Sep 30, 2006; stayin c o o l

I don't think casting ScarJo was racist, it is possible to reinterpret somebody else's story. It's not like the Departed was racist, or conversely it's not like Attack on Titan should have white Europeans even though they clearly are going for a European aesthetic. The cgi asian eyes though, loving lol.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2016 18:18

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 17:16

SlipUp: Sep 30, 2006; stayin c o o l

Echo Chamber posted:

There actually are still plenty people quite annoyed at The Departed and Edge of Tomorrow, even if you can argue it's less cynical than Ghost in the Shell or that Akira movie that refuses to die.

Neo Rasa posted:

It absolutely is stupid pandering and pretty racist.

The difference is The Departed and similar are total remakes of their source material. Even Attack on Titan hugely deviates from its source material. Like if they made a movie called Ghost in the Shell and it was set is dystopian cyberpunk New York or LA and had an all western cast I couldn't care less. That it's still set in urban Japan but has a bunch of western actors that all happen to be in the same internal affairs squad in Japan is dumb as hell and is the film's producers trying to simultaneously pander to both fans and their own box office prejudices at the same time.

Cast and plot changes in stuff like Titan and The Departed have as much to do with budget and where they're being filmed and what talent they have available too. PARAMOUNT has the marketing clout and the $$$ that they could and should know and be able to do better than getting one big white star in and testing out digital Asian eye effects. They want to throw money at it but at the same time don't think it will succeed without mostly western principle cast, that doesn't inspire confidence. Then again Paramount also gave us The Last Airbender so....

Solid points that it's blatant pandering, but not so much about the racism. Other posters have mentioned that it's not definitively set in Japan yet, so we'll see about that.

Consider this, where does the racist rabbit hole end? If they cast a Japanese lead, is it still racist to have white people writing a Japanese character, or a white person directing? If they have Japanese people writing and directing, is it racist to have a white studio profiting? If yes, then is it possible to adapt anything without problems of racism? Then on top of that, would it be racist to have only white studios with white writers, white directors, and white actors doing white stories? It seems that way. The Edge of Tomorrow and The Departed get more of a pass from you because they're total rewrites, couldn't it be argued that those are simply more thorough white wash jobs? Or is it racist for a white person to even watch the original Ghost in the Shell because we can't have an inherit understanding of the cultural baggage associated with the characters or the city it takes place in, leaving the piece incomplete and the viewing experience itself whitewashed?

Echo Chamber posted:

At this point, people should just avoid giving the studios the benefit of the doubt. Since their main concern is the bottom line, it's fair for people to presume the most cynical interpretation of a film project. Hollywood has a considerable amount of money and PR handlers to convince the public that what they're doing isn't racist; and it's mind boggling how often they trip up in even hiding their racism.

Wouldn't every film ever be problematic then, and wouldn't you personally be guilty of participation by being a fan of film?

SlipUp fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Apr 17, 2016

# ¿ Apr 17, 2016 19:36

SlipUp: Sep 30, 2006; stayin c o o l

Echo Chamber posted:

I'm going to give you the benefit the of the doubt and you're not just playing the whole "but what isn't racist?" card just because.

People aren't just reacting to everything that's "problematic" (which is why I avoided using that word). Some people took issue with how an Asian actress wasn't seriously considered for the character, yet the revelation that they did those chop suey eyes screen tests revealed that the studio knew that maybe the character should have been asian after all. That's why I emphasize "cynicism". Getting caught lying and covering it up or contradicting yourself are usually good signs that there's more going on. Paramount and other studios has repeatedly got caught covering their asses.

If they were seriously considering to digitally make the characters asian in post-production, then it's hard to argue that the idea of reimagining that story with white actors and a western setting was a product of some greater artistic vision. It's blatant consideration of pandering that reminds everyone that it's a cynical commercial product.

I've already said the cgi aspect was racist, in much fewer words. I just don't think the casting itself is racist. This also doesn't address my question to you specifically.

I do appreciate the benefit of the doubt, if not the implication of that.

SlipUp fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Apr 17, 2016

# ¿ Apr 17, 2016 20:10

SlipUp: Sep 30, 2006; stayin c o o l

Guy Mann posted:

Don't even get me started on Fury Road's leads not being Australian.

White on white crimes goes totally unnoticed of course.

I always thought anime depicted a near unattainable Japanese ideal of beauty, which among other things include a very light skin tone. (Where this is because of a western standard of beauty who knows.)

Then of course there's the feminist angle. Try making a full movie with a bare chested female protagonist and see how that goes. Arguing she's not a person but a literal thing probably wouldn't help that very much.

At the end of the day, it's a movie based off a cartoon. It doesn't really owe the cartoon anything except money in the hands off the right people.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2016 02:26

SlipUp: Sep 30, 2006; stayin c o o l

The Cameo posted:

The Japanese obsession with white skin goes back long before they were ever aware of European people. If anything it probably ties into class structures and has just carried over into modern life - a farmer would be tanned by the sun, while more noble/rich people would be able to remain indoors (especially during the devastatingly hot summers), keeping their skin light. It would also explain why so much art back then depicted purely white skin, why one of the common aspects of geisha is to paint your skin with white makeup, and so on. It's just a deep-seated part of their culture.

Two thumbs up for this post, thanks for this. Interesting stuff.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2016 03:17

SlipUp: Sep 30, 2006; stayin c o o l

Attack On Titan Part 2 might legitimately be the worst movie I've ever seen. Some movies are tongue in cheek bad, some don't have the resources, but that one was an ugly swing for the fences, totally whiff, and accidentally kill a fan by letting go of the bat kind of movie.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2016 07:10

SlipUp: Sep 30, 2006; stayin c o o l

Ugh, all these studios trying to cgi their way through everything. Whatever happened to good old fashioned practical effects?

# ¿ Apr 18, 2016 19:34

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 17:16

SlipUp: Sep 30, 2006; stayin c o o l

Ah gently caress it just give 'em a fake beard.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2016 07:29

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Ghost in the Shell: White Wash Complex