|
Since we can actually have someone edit the OP now, here's some stuff I noticed in the first post that needs updating: - Questions 8 and 9 still recommend Haswell - Question 14 should talk about DDR4 and about how you should buy 3000-3200 MHz according to current data (slim as it may be). It should also mention that you need the Z170 chipset to take advantage of it, so the cheapest RAM you can find is correct for other chipsets - The motherboard thread linked in question 15 is archived and probably no longer useful - Question 21 should just tell you to get OEM Windows 10 or whatever version of it you're supposed to buy now The second post more or less already addresses this but it'd be nice to have the consistency. Great to have a new thread!
|
#
¿
May 2, 2016 18:02
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 3, 2024 04:13 |
|
|
The fact that fast RAM now matters (or always did and we never noticed, if you listen to some people) but is exclusive to the overclocking chipset makes it hard to figure out just what to recommend to people who want an i5 but not an overclocking i5. You could spend a little more for a 6600, or a little more for Z170 and fast RAM. Both inch you really close to the 6600K build. Maybe we should just recommend an i5-6500 and H170/B150 with DDR4-2133? But then our big daddy overclocker has a 980 Ti and fancy motherboard in it, whereas a $100 Z170 one with a 970 and 6600K will do just fine as a "high-end" build for most people. Maybe we just need more granular build suggestions, like Logical Increments but not terrible.
|
|
#
¿
May 2, 2016 19:10
|
|
|
I mean, you can probably get a keyboard and mouse for less than $10 total, but I've never used the real fancy stuff so maybe it's worth the price despite how gaudy it looks.
|
|
#
¿
May 2, 2016 20:09
|
|
|
Nvidia just put out a ridiculous puzzle box ARG that ended with a countdown for Friday, 5 PM GMT. So probably wait at least that long.
|
|
#
¿
May 3, 2016 09:05
|
|
|
peak debt posted:- Done Cool. Now that I look at it again, maybe remove the bit in question 8 about how a "Z motherboard with a non-K CPU is a waste of money"? I'm still not sure how much sense it makes to buy a locked CPU and a Z170 motherboard just for fast RAM but it's a consideration now where it wasn't with Haswell. fozzy fosbourne posted:Looking at the manual for the Asus Z170 ~*Pro Gaming*~, all of the DDR4 3200 configurations they qualified were 4x4GB. They seem to favor this configuration over 2x8GB in nearly all the ram sets they list as being qualified. The marketing page also mentions: "Second-generation ASUS T-Topology enables DDR4 memory overclocking to reach new heights: over DDR4-3400MHz with all memory slots populated." They were going the same way with the "all memory slots populated" comment - they were advertising the speeds you can get in the worst case overclocking scenario. The conventional wisdom is that QVLs are more like a suggestion and any RAM is supposed to work with any motherboard that has the right slot on it. I took a quick look on PCPartPicker's completed builds though and people seem to have used Corsair 3200 and 3000 MHz 2x8 sets with no issue, so you could go for one of those if you want the peace of mind. HMS Boromir fucked around with this message at 17:32 on May 3, 2016 |
|
#
¿
May 3, 2016 17:23
|
|
|
Anime Schoolgirl posted:to use ram speeds higher than 2133 you still need a K series CPU. Pretty sure that's not the case. If nothing else, Digital Foundry, the guys who did the benchmarks most people point to as far as DDR4 speeds mattering, used the 6100 and 6500.
|
|
#
¿
May 3, 2016 17:49
|
|
|
I've heard that MMOs are CPU heavy but I haven't played one in a while so I'm not sure I can help you decide between an i3 and an i5. What I can do is tell you not to buy either of those. I think the choice that makes more sense is i3-6100 vs i5-6500. The 6300 is a negligible improvement over the 6100 and if you're trying to save money you might as well get the latter. Meanwhile the 4590 has been replaced by the 6500, and while it won't really perform noticeably better, there's no reason to buy an older processor unless you're getting a good deal on a used one or already have a motherboard with the right socket and are going from an i3 to an i5 or something.
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2016 15:24
|
|
|
I guess technically it's the replacement for the 4570 but it performs roughly as well as a 4590. The 6500 is the best price/performance Skylake i5 so it came to mind rather than the 6600. Anything in that ballpark will likely be a big upgrade if you're on a pre-Sandy Bridge CPU, it's just generally best to go with the latest generation.
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2016 15:41
|
|
|
Can you tell us what you have now? You might be able to get away with just the new graphics card (and an SSD if you don't have one) for a while still, CPU performance has increased very little in the past 5 years.
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2016 18:22
|
|
|
Blaziken386 posted:Thanks for all your suggestions! Especially the PSU one, I had no idea Corsair ones were crap. Corsair PSUs in general are very good. The CX series in particular has issues but only by discerning standards, they're still a lot better than no-name $20 time bombs. A Corsair RMx would've been a solid choice if that EVGA one weren't so much cheaper.
|
|
#
¿
May 10, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
Passmark crowns the 4790K the king of single threaded performance, by 3-4% clock for clock over the 6700K. I'm not sure what's up there. Anandtech's benchmarks don't really seem to agree, the 6700K wins the single threaded synthetics comparison at 4.4 GHz and it seems to be a coin toss which one does better in any given game.
|
|
#
¿
May 10, 2016 21:13
|
|
|
Higher resolutions only hit the GPU harder and very few graphics settings have a significant impact on CPU load. Perhaps more importantly, your CPU is maybe 10-15% weaker than the actual best there is. Not only will you be fine, you'll be fine for the rest of the decade. You'll want to overclock it eventually, though, if you haven't already. You should be able to hit 4.5 GHz no problem. HMS Boromir fucked around with this message at 15:55 on May 11, 2016 |
|
#
¿
May 11, 2016 15:49
|
|
|
Pixelslol posted:Thanks a lot for the info! I'm running some average cooler (still way better than the stock one) one the cpu. Do you need something amazing to OC it to 4.5ghz? A lot of it depends on how much voltage your particular CPU is going to need for a stable overclock (every chip is different due to the imprecise nature of the manufacturing process) but anecdotally the price-performance king of its time the 212 EVO seems to handle the 4770K at 4.3-4.5 GHz. If your cooler's a little worse then you should at least be able to overclock it as high as it'll go on stock voltage (4.2 GHz maybe) since a lot of the temperature increase when overclocking comes from increased voltage.
|
|
#
¿
May 12, 2016 10:55
|
|
|
It used to only be compatible with X99 motherboards which are for very high end systems, that might be why you had that impression. DDR4 is cheap now that the 100-series chipset motherboards have been out for most of a year. The only reason you would want DDR3 in a Skylake system is if you already have a bunch of it that you want to reuse, and you categorically shouldn't do that because DDR3 runs at high voltages that could damage a Skylake CPU's memory controller.
HMS Boromir fucked around with this message at 19:19 on May 12, 2016 |
|
#
¿
May 12, 2016 19:16
|
|
|
I'd definitely overclock that CPU and see if it's actually a bottleneck at all before spending money on a platform upgrade.
|
|
#
¿
May 13, 2016 19:59
|
|
|
Adeptus posted:I'm looking to upgrade a 6-year old PC to something that can handle modern games reasonably well (mostly eyeing up the new Total War...). I'm not too fussed about ultra-high settings, just want a smooth framerate at native resolution. Here's the "save £100" option: PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant CPU: Intel Core i5-6500 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor (£170.44 @ Amazon UK) Motherboard: ASRock Z170M Pro4S Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (£90.97 @ CCL Computers) Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (£64.19 @ Ebuyer) Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£111.94 @ Amazon UK) Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 970 4GB Video Card (£256.56 @ Amazon UK) Case: Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case (£41.77 @ Amazon UK) Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£74.99 @ Amazon UK) Total: £810.86 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-05-13 21:04 BST+0100 Sacrifices only a little performance, some motherboard features you probably won't miss and the quietness and convenience of the aftermarket cooler and high end case. Still a fine build and slightly better value for money. That said, if you do go with something more like what you posted (and I would if you can afford it), get the 6600K rather than the 6600. It's a shame to miss out on the extra performance you get by overclocking when the entire rest of your build is already set up for it. It's worth mentioning that NVidia's new graphics cards are just a few weeks away, so this is an awkward time to be buying one. That said, if you're not up to buy a used card, the 1070 is going to be a bit more expensive so you might not like that option even if it does have much better price/performance. Gunder posted:I'm trying to find out if upgrading my existing gaming system: i5-2500k, 8gigs of ram, Geforce 970 to a modern skylake system would be worthwhile. I only plan on upgrading the CPU, Mobo and RAM, i'll keep the 970 I'm already using. Definitely don't upgrade to anything less than a 6600K with a Z170 motherboard. Is your 2500K running at stock speed? If so, overclock it (buy something like this if you don't have a good cooler) and enjoy a bigger performance boost than you would have gotten from that £300 worth of parts. HMS Boromir fucked around with this message at 21:09 on May 13, 2016 |
|
#
¿
May 13, 2016 21:01
|
|
|
Adeptus posted:This is great advice, thanks. How feasible is switching to the cheaper motherboard and case, and upgrading to the 6600K for overclocking? Looks to reduce the price to around £875 - http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/TJqQ3C. Would it be worth switching to your recommended cheaper RAM as well, or does that cut the overclocking potential? Quite feasible, you won't need a fancy motherboard or high end cooling to hit your garden variety 4.4-4.5 GHz and everything past that is really just for enthusiasts who like overclocking for its own sake. The RAM is a fairly small step down in speed so if you're looking for places to cut costs it's an easy way to save £20. Adeptus posted:No concerns there - I overclocked my current PC and it's old enough that it was a bit of a pain, so I'm happy to do the same for a newer, easier one. I'm just trying to work out what I can cost-thrift from the build and still have the same capacity to overclock. I think they meant to quote the other person, who was dead set against overclocking. HMS Boromir fucked around with this message at 22:16 on May 13, 2016 |
|
#
¿
May 13, 2016 22:09
|
|
|
4.0 GHz on a 6600K is basically the equivalent of turning on that one feature some (most?) motherboards have that lets every core turbo up to maximum speed, which is 3.9 GHz for the 6600/6600K. Still probably enough for most things but disappointing to be sure. Sorry to hear about your bum chip, snuff.
|
|
#
¿
May 14, 2016 15:11
|
|
|
CharlieFoxtrot posted:So I'm planning to get one of those newfangled Pascal cards. I built my system in 2012 and so right now I have an i5-3550 for CPU and 8 GB DDR3 1333 MHz of RAM. Would I be cool with keeping those, or should I be thinking about swapping something else out when I upgrade the video card? CPUs have barely gotten better. Get a new graphics card and then if you end up with a CPU bottleneck (you won't in most games) upgrade to a 6600K and overclock it, anything else will be a minuscule improvement. deathfalls posted:So I've presently got an i7-2600k, 16 GB RAM, GTX 560 Ti. Would it be reasonable to think I could make this system last a bit longer by just replacing my graphics card? Graphics card is definitely the way to go, along with an overclock if you haven't done that yet and start feeling the age of the CPU. I would not expect to get a good deal on a new card from the previous generation so unless you're willing to hunt for a good deal on a used 980 Ti or 970 with a transferrable warranty, the 1070 is going to be a better value. Assuming aftermarket cards priced at MSRP show up reasonably quickly, anyway.
|
|
#
¿
May 14, 2016 19:37
|
|
|
DrKevorkian posted:Crell, It's the graphics card holding you back to be sure, your CPU can probably hold 120+ FPS going by benchmarks, even with that modest overclock. It's an awkward time to be buying a new GPU though since NVidia's new cards are about two weeks away. If you're not desperate to have it now or willing to look for a heavily discounted used card, I'd wait until next month to see how things shake out.
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2016 01:11
|
|
|
The Cryorig H7 has replaced it as the best budget cooler.
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2016 19:23
|
|
|
AVeryLargeRadish posted:Nah, the 212 EVO is still a very good cooler, it's probably your best choice because the competing CPU coolers are more expensive in Canada or just not available. Maybe it and that Arctic Freezer i32 you recommended me are worth putting in the OP as options? They're both cheaper than the H7 and presumably fine if it's not available. The (EDIT: latter) is also a tiny boy and might be good for cases that can't fit a tall boy like the 212 EVO. HMS Boromir fucked around with this message at 20:22 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
¿
May 16, 2016 19:57
|
|
|
If all goes well I should be ordering the rest of the parts to put my shiny new 6600K into in 2-3 weeks and I am utterly terrified of installing the processor and cooler, even though I know exactly how to do it.
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2016 22:08
|
|
|
Oh, that reminds me actually. The CPU cooler I'm getting recommends, of all things, applying a strip of thermal paste onto each of its heatpipes rather than the usual pea or thin line on the CPU heat spreader. Like so: Is there actually an important reason they might recommend doing it that way? It seems like kind of a hassle.
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2016 22:19
|
|
|
Righto. I'll follow their directions then.
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2016 22:32
|
|
|
For what it's worth, the 970 will run Doom at well over 60 FPS at 1080p ultra and get within spitting distance of holding a solid 60 at 1440p. Source.
HMS Boromir fucked around with this message at 18:47 on May 17, 2016 |
|
#
¿
May 17, 2016 18:44
|
|
|
Fans posted:Edit, I was also wrong and it seems I have a GTX 760. Serves me right for guessing without checking. It still worth the upgrade? I would not upgrade from a 760 to anything in that price range right now. You probably wouldn't even notice a difference with a 960. In the short term you can increase the budget and get a 970, or you can wait for AMD to release new cards in your price range that are hopefully worthwhile to upgrade to. You could also wait until the 1070 comes out and either really splurge and buy one of those, or see if you can get a good deal on a used 970 with a transferrable warranty or something.
|
|
#
¿
May 19, 2016 19:05
|
|
|
rj54x posted:Howdy - looking to replace my (now ancient) AMD Phenom II x4. I initially spec'd out the below: The memory speed will make some difference. Up to you if it's worth it. Where and for what Asus H170 board are you seeing bad reviews? Often there'll just be like 5 reviews, 3 of which will be people who got DOA motherboards (which can happen with any motherboard) and only left a review to complain about it.
|
|
#
¿
May 19, 2016 23:14
|
|
|
Your Loyal Vizier posted:The 1070 is going to be $379. That's a 26% increase in cost over a hypothetical $300 980ti, for more than double the performance iirc. The 1070 is categorically not going to have double the performance of a 980 Ti, not even close. It might come out ahead by 10% or so, going by the 1080's performance and the difference in specs between it and the 1070, but $300 vs $379 would almost definitely make the 980 Ti the winner as far as price/performance. HMS Boromir fucked around with this message at 16:26 on May 20, 2016 |
|
#
¿
May 20, 2016 16:23
|
|
|
Rubbing alcohol is for cleaning thermal paste off the heat spreader when you're reseating or replacing a cooler. I assume you bought that i5-6500 system Radish recommended you, so you should have a reasonably pristine heat spreader out of the box.
|
|
#
¿
May 21, 2016 16:08
|
|
|
That said, a full build with a GTX 1080 and Windows will run you about $1400 assuming you wait for cards cheaper than the $700 Founders' Edition. I don't know much about monitors but $400 should be more than enough for a decent 1440p one, right?
|
|
#
¿
May 23, 2016 22:34
|
|
|
Board partners are already teasing aftermarket cooler designs so you shouldn't be waiting longer than mid-June unless they're playing a seriously long Twitter game here. One hopes they'll also be a little less than $700. The monitor thread is indeed full of people buying $700 G-Sync monstrosities but I'm sure if you posted there informing them that you're not in fact made of money and are looking for a sub-$400 1440p monitor they'd hook you up with something good.
|
|
#
¿
May 23, 2016 22:50
|
|
|
I'm glad there's finally a few more data points. I decided on DDR4-3000 myself but felt a little iffy about it when it was basically just DigitalFoundry and the occasional "I told you so, it was like this with DDR3 too" forum post.
|
|
#
¿
May 24, 2016 11:16
|
|
|
Daveski posted:My PC is a couple years old now, but still runs quite well in most situations: Sure, slot in a 1070 and maybe replace that power supply since yours only has a 3 year warranty and is presumably getting on in years at this point. As for the full build, you're in a bit of an awkward position. You have what is still a very good CPU that I normally would recommend keeping for a while still, but you're stuck on a motherboard that can't overclock it. You could get a pretty good boost if you get an overclock-capable motherboard to replace your current one, but a quick search on PCPartPicker indicates that there aren't really many of those left so it's probably not a great plan unless you know a friend who's looking to upgrade from an LGA 1155 overclocking machine. If you do upgrade, don't bother with anything less than an i5-6600K+Z170 motherboard+aftermarket cooler for overclocking, or more likely the i5-7600K (or whatever they'll call it) which will probably be out by the time you buy your parts. You'd probably be disappointed by how little difference an upgrade to anything less would make. Either way, I wouldn't start making plans until you actually start noticing poor FPS in games that don't max out your graphics card. CPUs last a long time nowadays. Oh, and grab an SSD if you don't have one yet. Samsung 850 EVO, 250/500 GB, won't do much for performance in games but it'll make them load faster and everything else will be more responsive. HMS Boromir fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Jul 2, 2016 |
|
#
¿
May 24, 2016 15:51
|
|
|
Just add one of these if you want a hard drive. I wouldn't drop down to a smaller SSD to go with it though, if you were thinking of doing that - 120GB SSDs are a pretty poor value. The 4460's specs indicate how much of your RAM the integrated GPU can use as graphics memory, it has no bearing on dedicated GPUs. Besides, that 4GB 740 is some kind of joke in GPU form. Trying to run games at the kinds of resolutions and graphics settings that require 4GB of VRAM on a 740 would probably give the poor thing a heart attack. HMS Boromir fucked around with this message at 08:41 on May 25, 2016 |
|
#
¿
May 25, 2016 08:38
|
|
|
I don't know much about what a GPU used for non-videogames purposes needs so you're probably right.
|
|
#
¿
May 25, 2016 16:39
|
|
|
After ten thousand years I'm finally buying the rest of these parts. Have one last look at them, if you'd be so kind. PCPartPicker part list CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (Purchased For $249.00) CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Freezer i32 CPU Cooler ($31.00) Motherboard: ASRock Z170 Pro4S ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($117.00) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($85.00) Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($97.00) Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($55.00) Case: Thermaltake Versa H21 ATX Mid Tower Case ($40.00) Power Supply: Corsair RMx 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($103.00) Case Fan: ARCTIC F12 PWM 74.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($5.00) Case Fan: ARCTIC F12 PWM 74.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($5.00) Total: $787.00 Prices include 20% VAT - Bought the 6600K early because of a price drop of about $25 that I figured wouldn't last. It's not much more expensive now but hey, savings are savings. - Cryorig H7 has been out of stock for months, 212 EVO doesn't fit, going with a recommendation from Radish earlier in the thread. - Don't really care about motherboard features and I'm not going for any extreme overclocking so this one should hopefully do fine. Going with the ATX version since it has more power phases and I don't mind the size. - RAM not listed in either ASRock's or G.Skill's QVL but if it honest to goodness fails to function I can always return it and try a different set. - Going with a 250 GB SSD + 1 TB HDD over a 500 GB SSD. I don't mind trading some convenience for $20 plus having more space and two separate drives in case one ever fails. - Not really interested in spending any more than I have to on the case. This one was kindly recommended to me by Radish and is quite cheap. - 3 case fans total so I can try this positive pressure thing. The Z170 Pro4S specs say that "CHA_FAN1 can auto detect if 3-pin or 4-pin fan is in use", which to my mind implies that CHA_FAN2 can't, so I went with PWM fans. Let me know if there's a reason I shouldn't. As for the fans, they're cheap and seem to have good reviews, though people seem to mention short cables so let me know if that might be a problem with the case/motherboard I have. Could also switch to these if you figure they'd be better? - A PSU whose warranty I'm confident will outlive me. - Everything is from Vexio except for the SSD and HDD which are from 220volt. - GPU will be a 750 Ti, to be replaced with a generous friend's 970 soon. Thanks!
|
|
#
¿
May 25, 2016 21:45
|
|
|
Nam Taf posted:Thanks! Do you know what the difference is between the K4 and the K4/D3, both of which show up on Newegg? For future reference, /D3 motherboards have DDR3 slots so you should make sure you don't accidentally buy one. They seem to be cheaper than the proper versions where I live which is kind of disconcerting.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 8, 2016 10:06
|
|
|
Small thing I noticed in the OP - the ASRock Z170 Pro4 is listed as "ATX, SLI-capable, slot between cards for extra airflow". It is not in fact SLI-capable, though it can do crossfire.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 9, 2016 10:56
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 3, 2024 04:13 |
|
|
You should also buy an 850 EVO rather than an 850 PRO. The difference in performance won't be noticeable and you're not going to write nearly enough to it to need the extra endurance, so you can save the $60.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 13, 2016 13:40
|
|