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Despera posted:It's not like Europeans went around sneezing.on the indians. 500 million people died in the 20th century from smallpox even with the help of germ theory and the fact the virus went virtually extinct in 1970. Most of Indians who died of the virus never saw a white person. I guess there wasn't really a genocide then. Thanks for the input.
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May 7, 2016 04:33
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Despera posted:It's not like Europeans went around sneezing.on the indians. A turning point, in the anti-Indian propaganda and anti-idolatry campaign that accompanied the colonization process, was the decision by the Spanish Crown, the in 1550s, to introduce in the American colonies a far more severe form of exploitation. The decision was motivated by the crisis of the "plunder economy" that had been introduced after the Conquest... Until the 1550s, despite the massacres and the exploitation associated with the system of the encomienda, the Spaniards had not completely disrupted the subsistence economies which they had found in the areas they colonized. Instead, they had relied, for the wealth they accumulated, on the tribute systems put into place by the Aztecs and Incas... The tribute the Spaniards exacted was much higher than that the Aztecs and Incas had ever demanded... In Mexico, this turn occurred in 1562 when, by the initiative of the Provincial Diego de Landa, an anti-idolatry campaign was launched in the Yucatan peninsula, in the course of which more that 4,500 people were rounded up and brutally tortured under the charge of practicing human sacrifices (ed note: in the background of that woodcut, you can see this pictured). They were then subjected to a well-orchestrated public punishment which finished destroying their bodies and their morale (Clendinnen 1987:71-92). So cruel were the penalties inflicted (floggings so severe that they made the blood flow, years of enslavement in the mines) that many people died or remained unfit for work; others fled their homes or committed suicide, so that work came to an end and the regional economy was disrupted. However, the persecution that Landa mounted was the foundation of a new colonial economy, since it signaled to the local population that the Spaniards were there to stay and that the rule of the old gods was over.
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May 7, 2016 04:54
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Mofabio posted:A turning point, in the anti-Indian propaganda and anti-idolatry campaign that accompanied the colonization process, was the decision by the Spanish Crown, the in 1550s, to introduce in the American colonies a far more severe form of exploitation. The decision was motivated by the crisis of the "plunder economy" that had been introduced after the Conquest... Until the 1550s, despite the massacres and the exploitation associated with the system of the encomienda, the Spaniards had not completely disrupted the subsistence economies which they had found in the areas they colonized. Instead, they had relied, for the wealth they accumulated, on the tribute systems put into place by the Aztecs and Incas... The tribute the Spaniards exacted was much higher than that the Aztecs and Incas had ever demanded... In Mexico, this turn occurred in 1562 when, by the initiative of the Provincial Diego de Landa, an anti-idolatry campaign was launched in the Yucatan peninsula, in the course of which more that 4,500 people were rounded up and brutally tortured under the charge of practicing human sacrifices (ed note: in the background of that woodcut, you can see this pictured). They were then subjected to a well-orchestrated public punishment which finished destroying their bodies and their morale (Clendinnen 1987:71-92). So cruel were the penalties inflicted (floggings so severe that they made the blood flow, years of enslavement in the mines) that many people died or remained unfit for work; others fled their homes or committed suicide, so that work came to an end and the regional economy was disrupted. However, the persecution that Landa mounted was the foundation of a new colonial economy, since it signaled to the local population that the Spaniards were there to stay and that the rule of the old gods was over. This is neither genocide nor in the good old United States. The correct way to call Americans genociders go look up Andrew Jackson or something. You are insane if you think smallpox killing the indians was genocide. Not to mention the Spaniards were pissed off that all the indians died because then they had to import their slaves.
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May 7, 2016 05:02
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Mofabio posted:Literal holocaust denial ITT, cool. Because acknowledging that millions of native Americans died from diseases Europeans introduced them to is the same thing as saying that Europeans didn't kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of native Americans through starvation, forced relocation, warfare or outright murder. Christ you're loving dumb.
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May 7, 2016 05:05
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A Winner is Jew posted:Because acknowledging that millions of native Americans died from diseases Europeans introduced them to is the same thing as saying that Europeans didn't kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of native Americans through starvation, forced relocation, warfare or outright murder. Invoking the plague death depopulation of the Americas is a common tactic used to minimize the European-inflicted genocide.
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May 7, 2016 05:06
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I sure am glad Alaska Natives are free range rather than reservation, that poo poo looks terrible.
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May 7, 2016 05:11
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Invoking the plague death depopulation of the Americas is a common tactic used to minimize the European-inflicted genocide. Something I didn't do, but good job at failing the very basics of reading comprehension I guess.
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May 7, 2016 05:12
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No one is denying Americans committed genocide.
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May 7, 2016 05:13
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A Winner is Jew posted:Something I didn't do, but good job at failing the very basics of reading comprehension I guess. No, but it is what Mofabio is talking about, and you're all jumping down his throat for all the wrong reasons.
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May 7, 2016 05:23
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Despera posted:This is neither genocide nor in the good old United States. The correct way to call Americans genociders go look up Andrew Jackson or something. You are insane if you think smallpox killing the indians was genocide. Not to mention the Spaniards were pissed off that all the indians died because then they had to import their slaves. It's all part of the same genocide. People count typhus' victims and the deliberately starved in the Nazi's 6 million, and as well, people should count smallpox's victims and those starved by the destroying of winter food stores as part of the even-more-massive American genocide. I mean, it's even more clear-cut in the American genocide case, because smallpox was used as biological warfare, whereas IG Farben scientists were at least experimenting at the time on typhus cures.
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May 7, 2016 05:39
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Despera posted:No one is denying Americans committed genocide. Oh I see you just want to make sure everyone knows you're technically correct about genocide, the best kind of correct about genocide
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May 7, 2016 07:46
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The Nazis intentionally created the conditions that lead to the spread of typhus, knowing but not caring about the results. The spread of smallpox into the new world was not by design, nor under the control of a people who did not know what causes the disease in the first place, nor did they create the conditions that lead to that susceptibility of disease (total isolation). Calling that genocide makes just as much sense as saying it was China that genocided Europe with the black death - it's totally absurd.
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May 7, 2016 08:10
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I'm putting a stop to this you filth
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May 7, 2016 08:13
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