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Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

They've confirmed that they are based on total lifetime progress, not just since starting the tech/unlocking it on the tree.

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Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

This is a really good list so far. A lot of female leaders, and a few really unconvential picks like Scythia. Also we're finally getting a non Julian emperor for Rome.

I'm pretty sure one of the unknowns is Persia, it looks a LOT like a Persian relief. Problem is it'll be nearly impossible to know who, since the art was very stylized.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

All the ones we know for certain are in order.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

MMM Whatchya Say posted:

Or like, the concept of civs as a continuous entity of 6000 years in general
That would be a different game entirely.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

My hope is that unknown civ #2 is actually Great Sioux.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Grapplejack posted:

As long as their abilities are better than the Iroquois's.


Didn't they talk to someone from that tribe and the tribe didn't want to be in it or am I thinking of something else?
That was Pueblo, IIRC. And it had to do with the language being sacred.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Drink whenever someone calls them "cartoonish".

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Considering that the industry standard is "pre-order or you have to pay for it later", this seems pretty reasonable.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

I'm dubious because Gamestar just a had a big article/reveal last month.
Would be weird for them to do back-to-back previews/reveals for the same game.
Also, if it's from Gamestar, why is it in English?

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Elias_Maluco posted:

Wanst she born in Italy? That seems like a more valid reason to complain
Why does that invalidate her? She spent her entire adult life in France, as the Queen, and queen mother/regent. While she didn't directly rule for very long, she was the main power behind the throne for decades, had a huge influence on French policy, and did a lot of patronage and building projects.
It's kinda insulting to suggest that she isn't French really.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

As I suspected, the "Henry VIII leader portrait leak" was a total fake. It was a mockup done by a modder that someone ran with.
I really, really doubt we're getting multiple leaders per civ any time soon.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

We'll probably know this week?

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Salty nationalists are the best part of the civfanatics forums. Which isn't saying much.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Kalko posted:

The CF thread pointed out that in the video Brazil has dashed borders in one part and solid lines later on. Apparently this is because in the early game borders are less strict and you presumably don't need to sign an Open Borders agreement to move into another civ's territory, but later on (maybe with certain techs or eras) they turn into the familiar system from previous games. If true, that's a neat feature.
Yea that was confirmed at some point. It's a good way of making forward settling less obnoxious and exploration easier.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

It's definitely a step up from Civ IV though. The problem with IV was that there was basically no puzzle- it was static, and involved open information entirely. Now you have to learn it via spies, and hidden agendas mean that the precise likes/dislikes change each game.
The uniqueness of agendas should also add a lot of variety to the game- instead of a leader just being more/less warlike/culture/religion-focused, they also have specific behaviors that drive them.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

The quirks and desires of actual people/leaders aren't always rational either.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Gully Foyle posted:

Keep in mind that 'continent' means something different in Civ VI. It's not just 'part of the same landmass', but are rather defined and named areas in the game. I'm not sure what the algorithm is, but even Pangaea maps are reported as having multiple different continents. So things like the American bonus for fighting on the home continent or the English Redcoats bonus for foreign continents can come into play differently even for Pangaea.

As for the AI/spreading wide in Civ 6, who knows? With local happiness/amenities, at least, I haven't seen a reason to not go wide yet, unless they keep the Tech/Culture penalties.
There's no more penalties I think, but there's some increased opportunity costs for going wide- developing your city with districts, housing, and amenities seems more important/powerful than before. Also settlers (as well as missionaries) get more expensive for each one you have built.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

RagnarokAngel posted:

Unless there's been so major retooling in how religion is spread that sounds loving miserable.
There definitely has been. They showed it off some in the previous livestream, although not in huge detail. Also with the redone missionaries it seems like there will actually be a defender's advantage in religion, which will be nice.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

MMM Whatchya Say posted:

Some people think this might mean...

multiple leaders for each civ
Seems really weird for them to do only one extra leader.
Also they said 18 civs at launch, right? There's 19 on that list, which is right when you include monty as early-access preorder DLC.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

The only thing I find weird is them including Gorgo at launch as opposed to DLC, which Isabella seems to be in.

Also Mvemba a Nzinga is Alfonso's original name.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Brother Entropy posted:

was this stream showing off the final build? it's possible whatever build they were using didn't have isabella playable yet or was including gorgo for test purposes or whatnot
Yea it's totally possible that something is up there. As I said it's weird that there are 18 civs but 19 leaders in, when they said there would be 18 civs in a at launch (probably not including Monty).

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Kurtofan posted:

Technically Monty is a launch civ (if you preordered)
That usually isn't included in a count of what's in at launch though.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Hogama posted:

If you take the others we know and add this stream list in alphabetical order, it comes up

1 Catherina de Medici - France
2 Cleopatra - Egypt
3 Frederick Barbarossa - Germany
4 Gandhi - India
5 Gilgamesh - Sumer / Uruk
6 Gorgo - Greece / Sparta
7 Harald Hardrada - Norway
8 Hojo Tokimune - Japan
9 Montezuma - Aztec
10 Mvemba a Nzinga - (Alfonso I) Kongo
11 Pedro II - Brazil
12 Pericles - Greece / Athens
13 Peter - Russia
14 Philip II - Spain
15 Qin Shi Huang - China
16 Saladin - Arabia
17 Teddy Roosevelt - America
18 Tomyris - Scythia
19 Trajan - Rome
20 Victoria - England

That's 19 Civs if you assume Gorgo as an alt-leader for Greece, 18 + 1 DLC. Jadwiga isn't in the Civilopedia, so Poland is probably planned as the first paid DLC (with Isabella as an alt-leader DLC?)
Ok this makes more sense.
I'm guessing that Gorgo is either post-launch or some kind of bonus thing though. It'd be odd to have her just randomly show up, although not unwelcome.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Fister Roboto posted:

It's almost as if having to create and voice-act intricate diplomacy screens, and design and balance totally unique abilities and units severely limits the number of civs they can have in the game due to time and budget constraints.
As opposed to having a list of identical civilizations with minimal to no flavor or personality.
I'll take "fewer, but better"

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Gorgo isn't a separate Civ, on the alphabetical bingo board she was alongside Pericles.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Hidden information is a core part of almost every game though. If spies take too much micromanagement that's a problem itself, but not knowing exactly what the opposition is doing is not a flaw.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

OfChristandMen posted:

I like how Greece just gets a better policy bonus slot than Barbossa. Greece looks strong and good. Their theater district needing to be on a hill is a strange gameplay restriction, since it says it wants to be close to your city center which means you might not settle on a hill, only next to one so your Acropolis gets good.
Wildcard is a bit misleading. It's not "put any policy here", there's a specific wildcard category.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Ok that's weird. Even better for Pericles then. It will be interesting to see the difference between Pericles's diplomatic focus vs Gorgo's likely aggressive focus.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Yea. Culture is not the same beast as Civ 5 at all. In Civ 5 you just needed some level of culture to get the best policies at a reasonable pace. Getting more culture had serious diminishing returns as policy quality and cost increased. In Civ 6 culture is a completely parallel path, complete with economic and military bonuses. You won't be able to ignore it and you will be incentivized to get as much as possible. There's even wonders and buildings there to reward the player who goes hard for culture.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Gabriel Pope posted:

Man, that's dumb.
It's great. It means you can ignore the early religion race and focus on every other aspect of your empire.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

The Madrassa seems extremely strong, since it gives you faith based on the Campus's adjacency bonus, kinda making it a mini holy site.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

JVNO posted:

Yeah, more than a little tempted to preorder (using the cheap link posted earlier that included Monty) at this point, just to play with my girlfriend on release day.

But SimCity is a thing that happened, and it poisoned me against preorders.
It's silly to compare the two when Civ 6 is being broadly shown off weeks before release.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Baron Porkface posted:

Why shouldn't I believe that?

Because culture is way more powerful and important than it was in previous games. Faith too. Also there seems to be less snowballing possible with just better tech.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Yes? I'm saying why he shouldn't believe that science is the #1 important thing that it was in Civ 5, not that streamers aren't currently following that logic.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Baron Porkface posted:

I don't see how there is less snowballing possible.
Less snowballing possible through just technology at the expense of everything else, I mean. Civ is obviously still a very snowbally game and always will be.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Gort posted:

Have we seen anything of how multiplayer is? I'm afraid it's going to be a shitshow like it is in 5.
No but they have promised it is better and that they've put more attention into it, including various short-form modes for short sessions. It'd be hard for the netcode to be worse, and the entire engine seems like less of a tirefire than 5's was. Obviously it's impossible to say anything until people have played it though.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

Super Jay Mann posted:

The truth is that the turn dates are calibrated toward a very laid back playstyle and that anyone who is remotely good at Civ games is going to reach eras far earlier than the "historical" dates just by virtue of knowing what they're doing.

Seriously in 5 I can hit industrial era by the 12th century. It's just not feasible to calibrate.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

The new art style is way more readable, which was their primary goal. Adding districts and wonders to the map made readability much more important, since it'd be very easy to overwhelm the player otherwise.

Civ 5 had pretty piss poor readability and I occasionally had trouble picking out resources and improvements, even after many hundreds of hours.

Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

MMM Whatchya Say posted:

People also complained that she wasn't actually ever the leader of france, which is at least somewhat relevant

Nah, that's dumb because she was regent for many years, de facto ruler for others, and key adviser for more.

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Sarmhan
Nov 1, 2011

The Lord Bude posted:

Actually I just looked up Swahili in Wikipedia, and I could have sworn it listed Kongo as one of the places it was spoken. No offence intended.

My point still stands - they should add a Swahili speaking civ and make baba yeti it's theme music.
Swahili is spoken in the eastern part of the modern Democratic Republic of Congo, but that part doesn't overlap with the kingdom of Kongo. That's probably where the confusion is coming from, I know I was confused until I looked it up.

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