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We keep hearing a lot about the European issues with migrants. I was wondering what the Policy for Swiss Migration is. I know Switzerland works on a "Ausländerausweis" system (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausl%C3%A4nderausweis) which works on a tier system for migrants (different migrants have different tiers. You can obtain full rights as an immigrant except the right to vote, which is reserved for Swiss Nationals). I've also heard about "Anarchy Colonies" is some of the main cities in Switzerland as well as local groups that directly oppose Migrants (and have done so even before the European Union). Has anyone got anymore information about that aspect of Swiss Culture? Is there any internet evidence of this kind of group (like dedicated Websites)? I'm not sure if these groups are Right Wing groups, I believe they are actively practicing "Direct Governance", but this aspect of Switzerland interests me and doesn't seem to be reported on. zomgcatsonfire fucked around with this message at 14:14 on May 17, 2016 |
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May 17, 2016 13:39
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Swiss people are strange mountain dwarves who speak a hosed up dialect of German and are incredibly racist despite operating a giant investment bank / tax haven for dictators and CEOs the whole world round
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May 17, 2016 23:39
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icantfindaname posted:Swiss people are strange mountain dwarves who speak a hosed up dialect of German and are incredibly racist despite operating a giant investment bank / tax haven for dictators and CEOs the whole world round Helvetia #1 :swisspatriot:
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May 18, 2016 14:11
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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icantfindaname posted:Swiss people are strange mountain dwarves who speak a hosed up dialect of German and are incredibly racist despite operating a giant investment bank / tax haven for dictators and CEOs the whole world round there are also precious french speaking elves, who live under the rule of the cruel dwarves.
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May 18, 2016 14:42
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Switzerland is a very strange place. Xenophobic, despite (or perhaps because of) having one of the highest percentages of immigrants in Europe, armed to the teeth, very fragmented as a nation.Kurtofan posted:there are also precious french speaking elves, who live under the rule of the cruel dwarves. Don't forget the Italian fairies, and the Rumanch aliens.
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May 18, 2016 19:43
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 American living in Switzerland checking in. I received this flyer in the mail about a year ago. Long story short, there was a vote in Bern that would allow non-citizen residents to start petitions (thats it) and the conservative party's reaction was to send this out. It reads "No special rights for foreigners." You have probably seen the poster of the white sheep kicking out the black sheep, which achieved some notoriety about 5-6 years ago. It was brought out again, the exact same thing, for the most recent election, in support of a measure to deport any foreigner who commits a crime. Before I moved here, my uncle after finding out that my then girlfriend, now wife, was Swiss said that 'Man, those Europeans are just so open minded'. I was like, no they're super racist. THE NEXT DAY the country voted to ban minarets. I'm really, really paraphrasing here but about two years ago as well there was a roadside advertisement of a really really really dark person and then something along the lines of 'be careful of crime'. TheImmigrant posted:Switzerland is a very strange place. Xenophobic, despite (or perhaps because of) having one of the highest percentages of immigrants in Europe, armed to the teeth, very fragmented as a nation. 1/5 people living here is a non-citizen. Two years ago when they voted to basically not abide by EU quotas for immigration, it was the cantons with the fewest non-citizen nationals who voted to keep out immigrants. Since moving here an asylum center has opened up very close to me and everyone has been nothing short of welcoming. Today one of the dudes was jamming out on a lute, it was dope. zomgcatsonfire posted:We keep hearing a lot about the European issues with migrants. Do you mean migrants or refugees? I can go into this further in a bit if you are actually interested in the process of emigrating to Switzerland. I can even compare/contrast it to my sister (American) trying to obtain a green card for her husband (Turkish).
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May 18, 2016 20:05
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jesus
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May 18, 2016 20:10
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Holy poo poo, was that last year? I was in Switzerland then and I don't remember any sort of vote like that, was it a Canton-specific one? Wooow though, a poster like that in TYOOL 2016. Switzerland, you never fail to disappoint. Speaking of which, will you or your wife be voting in the upcoming Basic Income referendum? I am prepared to be very disappointed by the result.
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May 20, 2016 02:18
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Laverna posted:Holy poo poo, was that last year? I was in Switzerland then and I don't remember any sort of vote like that, was it a Canton-specific one? Yeah this was specific to Bern. Although a lot of the racism is coded, I honestly have to appreciate how up front it is sometimes. Yeah this was 2015, and it was a flyer mailed to basically every house in the city of Bern. I cannot vote but my wife will probably be voting for it. I only have a basic level grasp on economics, but I support the universal basic income, but I really don't think that Switzerland is a country that needs it. The employment is quite good here. That having been said, it would kind of bump up inflation, which would weaker the super-strong franc. My offer to explain the Swiss immigration policy still stands, and I'll give you a teaser. When I applied to move here, I did not apply for residency with the federal government, I applied with the Canton/state. There are quite a few parallells between the US and Switzerland, and the relative strength of the localities/states is one of them.
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May 20, 2016 08:37
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Meh, it's their country.
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May 20, 2016 09:50
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Doesn't give them permission to use horrifyingly racist caricatures in their flyers. Also, the referendum was just about non-citizen starting petitions, not even voting for parliament or anything like that. But yeah, Switzerland is an interesting case. They're surrounded on all sides by far greater and more powerful nations sharing the same language which could easily gobble them up if they wanted to, and the only way to not being culturally overpowered by them was to create a fiercely nationalistic and anti-inclusionist narrative. Add to that a geography which doesn't exactly lend itself to supra-regional communication and cultural exchange and an extremely delicate internal balance of languages, ethnicities and religions (hell, the Sonderbund War of 1847 was still basically Catholics vs. Protestants) which many think could be swayed to one side or the other by an influx of immigrants, and you can see how xenophobic sentiments could easily form. On the other hand, it's not like Switzerland doesn't need immigration, so while this serves as an explanation it absolutely isn't an excuse, of course. Strange how the very same SVP guys who start shaking when they see a single brown person would have no problem with annexing territory left and right 
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May 20, 2016 10:53
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System Metternich posted:Doesn't give them permission to use horrifyingly racist caricatures in their flyers Who's permission should they ask then? Pretty sure they're allowed to as it's their country. Or should such flyers be made illegal?
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May 20, 2016 12:42
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The flyers come from pretty much one party exclusively, the SVP (or maybe the Lega if you're in Ticino), they're not a federal or national service, and I'd be a lot less ashamed of where I grew up if there was legislation on racist political advertising.
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May 20, 2016 13:49
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de_dust posted:Who's permission should they ask then? Pretty sure they're allowed to as it's their country. Are you trying to insulate the Swiss from criticism about overt racism? There's a world of difference between criticism of racism and outsiders somehow banning a nation from expressions of racism.
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May 20, 2016 14:26
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de_dust posted:Who's permission should they ask then? Pretty sure they're allowed to as it's their country. Sadly, Switzerland doesn't seem to have legislation against such blatant racism, so all that anyone can do is calling the SVP disgusting wastes of space and hoping that anyone who willingly supports their xenophobic politics changes his/her mind and becomes a better person for it 
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May 20, 2016 19:10
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Switzerland has hate speech laws, as do most European countries. But the barrier for prosecution is pretty high, and the SVP is very adept at weaving through the legal landscape.
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May 20, 2016 19:15
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Samuel Clemens posted:Switzerland has hate speech laws, as do most European countries. But the barrier for prosecution is pretty high, and the SVP is very adept at weaving through the legal landscape. the alpine dogwhistle
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May 20, 2016 19:23
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System Metternich posted:Strange how the very same SVP guys who start shaking when they see a single brown person would have no problem with annexing territory left and right Wow. These guys literally still think it's 1939 and having designs on bits of other countries is still a cool and good thing. There's this thing called World War 2, guys, it kind of put the rest of us Europeans off of pulling that poo poo! (ok outside of the Balkans/Russia anyway) (Also I love the idea of Switzerland launching a war of conquest against France and Germany simultaneously, yes I'm sure that would go great for you guys)
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May 20, 2016 19:34
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IIRC, the SVP's argument was that these territories would voluntarily wish to join Switzerland through a democratic process. Which may very well be true for some of them. The real question is: Why would Switzerland possibly want to annex Voralberg? At least Savoyen has nice weather.
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May 20, 2016 20:00
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Samuel Clemens posted:IIRC, the SVP's argument was that these territories would voluntarily wish to join Switzerland through a democratic process. Which may very well be true for some of them. Lol at Baden-Württemberg though. The millions of
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May 20, 2016 20:18
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feedmegin posted:Wow. These guys literally still think it's 1939 and having designs on bits of other countries is still a cool and good thing. Pretty sure the plan here is via a bunch of referenda. It's about as nuts as the Lega dei Ticinesi and the Lega Nord plan for Ticino and the north of Italy to break away from Switzerland/Italy and form their own Italofascist country.
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May 20, 2016 20:22
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Vorarlberg specifically I think is related to a post WW1 referendum where 80% of Vorarlberg voted to join Switzerland. There's a "they should have been here all along" element.
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May 21, 2016 04:16
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I lived in Switzerland as a kid (ex-pat American) between 1970-'75. I returned for the first time in 2013 and was (pleasantly) shocked at the cultural mix: far more non-Christians than I ever saw as a kid, and schwarma shops everywhere. Missed the Solexes and the old pensioner dudes who would wander around Zurich in black suits, muttering and randomly cuffing children who had spoken when not spoken to first.
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May 21, 2016 05:01
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reignonyourparade posted:Vorarlberg specifically I think is related to a post WW1 referendum where 80% of Vorarlberg voted to join Switzerland. There's a "they should have been here all along" element. Vorarlberg only didn't join up specifically because Switzerland didn't want them, so the SVP have zero right to complain. Also I just realised that Greater Switzerland apparently includes South Tyrol, but not its northern (Austrian) counterpart, strange
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May 21, 2016 06:23
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System Metternich posted:Vorarlberg only didn't join up specifically because Switzerland didn't want them, so the SVP have zero right to complain. Also I just realised that Greater Switzerland apparently includes South Tyrol, but not its northern (Austrian) counterpart, strange The 'greater swiss area' is very weird especially if you look into the history of it. There used to be these city states all across Europe who were just part of Switzerland even though they weren't contiguous with the country. And I think one of the original strategies, that didn't pan out, for islands that wanted to get into the money laundering game was to try to become a part of Switzerland. As far as refugees are concerned, pre-Syria, Switzerland was #3 in terms of refugees taken per capita. There was kind of a top tier with Sweden and (I think) Norway. And then Switzerland was the leader of the pack as far as the next tier was concerned. However the metrics are sort of messed up now because the flow of refugees is just orders of magnitudes bigger and are from a completely different part of the world. PainterofCrap posted:I lived in Switzerland as a kid (ex-pat American) between 1970-'75. I returned for the first time in 2013 and was (pleasantly) shocked at the cultural mix: far more non-Christians than I ever saw as a kid, and schwarma shops everywhere. My in-laws lived here in the early '80s and it is astounding how much the country has changed since then. I think foreigners were only 5% of the population at that point, and even then they were mainly Italian workers. In that time, the population has grown from ~5 million to ~8 million. One very significant change is just that the trains are absolutely packed and the old people are total dicks about getting on the train before the others have gotten off.
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May 21, 2016 13:20
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reignonyourparade posted:Vorarlberg specifically I think is related to a post WW1 referendum where 80% of Vorarlberg voted to join Switzerland. There's a "they should have been here all along" element. Vorarlberg speaks the same dialect of German as Switzerland, as opposed to the rest of Austria which speaks a different one. That annexation actually makes sense as opposed to the ones grabbing random bits of France or Italy
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May 22, 2016 00:14
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de_dust posted:Meh, it's their country. No it isn't.
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May 22, 2016 01:43
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System Metternich posted:Vorarlberg only didn't join up specifically because Switzerland didn't want them, so the SVP have zero right to complain. Also I just realised that Greater Switzerland apparently includes South Tyrol, but not its northern (Austrian) counterpart, strange Not the ONLY reason, this was right after WW1 and the Entente was opposed, so there wasn't exactly going to be a big push even if under other circumstances they would've said yes.
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May 22, 2016 02:33
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I lived in Geneva for 3 and a half years and getting citizenship as a person with dark skin was a total poo poo show, no idea about their immigration policies in general though (I was there as a student). Geneva had a huge expat population so it must have not been too hard to get in, but lol gently caress you if you want to be a citizen This was also ~5-10 years ago which wasn't too long after they banned new mosques from being built, things may have changed since then
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May 22, 2016 06:47
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I thought they banned minarets, not mosques themselves.
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May 22, 2016 07:11
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They banned minarets specifically, mosques are fine. There were only about 4 or 5 in the country at the time, and I remember reading about people putting up "technically not minarets" in protest. Pretty embarrassing period, all things considered. Can't decide if it's worse than the Masseneinwanderungsinitiative.
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May 22, 2016 14:20
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de_dust posted:Meh, it's their country. That's racist. Whites dont exist or have countries. On the subject of minarets, i wonder what a mosque in washington DC does, or other cities with a maximum height, if the whole point is to get above neighboring buildings. MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 14:35 on May 22, 2016 |
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May 22, 2016 14:33
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MattD1zzl3 posted:On the subject of minarets, i wonder what a mosque in washington DC does, or other cities with a maximum height, if the whole point is to get above neighboring buildings. For Washington DC, that's built into part h. Otherwise, consult the relevant city's laws.
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May 22, 2016 14:52
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MattD1zzl3 posted:That's racist. Whites dont exist or have countries. I would be content with your posts not existing
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May 22, 2016 20:30
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Coohoolin posted:The flyers come from pretty much one party exclusively, the SVP (or maybe the Lega if you're in Ticino), they're not a federal or national service, and I'd be a lot less ashamed of where I grew up if there was legislation on racist political advertising. Aren't you Scottish??
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May 22, 2016 23:34
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OfficialGBSCaliph posted:Aren't you Scottish?? Stop the presses, I don't identify with where I grew up, this is an absolute global first and must be investigated.
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May 22, 2016 23:36
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Coohoolin posted:Stop the presses, I don't identify with where I grew up, this is an absolute global first and must be investigated. Whoa whoa calm down chap, I just asked a question !
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May 22, 2016 23:37
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I've been in Switzerland for nearly 8 years now, in both the French and German-speaking parts. Currently in the process of getting married to a Swiss and looking into passport / citizenship exams. I currently have another 3 year contract, but I'll stay here if Trump gets elected — since I would not be able to go back if I wanted to, since my wife will be nominally Muslim.bollig posted:1/5 people living here is a non-citizen. I hate when this number is used in official documents, especially when it's used by non-UDC parties. Sure, 23% of Swiss residents don't have Swiss passports, but around half of them are 100% Swiss and their only connection with their home country is that they spend one week in the summer there every year or two with their grandparents. In reality, only like ~10% of Swiss residents are foreigners (800k people), and they match very nicely with the 760,000 Swiss living abroad*. Switzerland is basically neutral (ha ha) on foreigners. *I have no idea how many of those are "Swiss" in the way that Portuguese who have been in Switzerland since 1970 are "Portuguese" though.
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May 23, 2016 04:54
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Saladman posted:
Yeah it's crazy. For example I've met several people who are on their third generation of living in Switzerland, speak perfect Swiss German/French, and I only found out that they were actually Portuguese. And then I meet tons of children of Sri Lankan asylum seekers who are just as Swiss as anyone else. My point still kind of stands though, that a pretty hefty percentage of the country is not the direct descendant of a strong-jawed mountain Swiss. As an American I really just assumed that anyone born in a country got that citizenship. However that's just a new world thing. QuarkJets posted:I lived in Geneva for 3 and a half years and getting citizenship as a person with dark skin was a total poo poo show, no idea about their immigration policies in general though (I was there as a student). Geneva had a huge expat population so it must have not been too hard to get in, but lol gently caress you if you want to be a citizen It is a definite sliding scale, and like almost everything here, if you can pay a bunch of money, it doesn't matter. For me, as a white American, it would be ~3k francs and a language certificate. My female Chinese friend who is definitely going to spend the rest of her life here with her half-Swiss child and Swiss husband? Minimum 10k francs and a bunch of hassle. One of my friends is a black South African and I have no idea how he is going to get citizenship if he wants it.
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May 23, 2016 12:48
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These are some great Swiss Discussions! I understand how much sympathy Swiss Nationals have with regional issues (that to an international audience seem pretty racist). I understand how much xenophobia exists in an effort to maintain Swiss cultural identity. There was a recent vote on whether foreign nationals should face deportation on their first speeding offense, which the Swiss people voted against, which pretty much sums up Swiss culture. But that's the international perspective. What I'm interested in is specific Kantonal Groups that exist that may be using "Direct Governance" or "Council" to enact racist targeting. This could be anything from clubs to religious groups (I don't know the specifics, I've just heard rumors (like foreign families being used as "examples" and mixed families hiding their second nationality for fear of being excluded). bollig posted:Do you mean migrants or refugees? That is actually drat interesting bollig. What procedures did you go through? Do you know what the procedure is when bringing a Family over is? Do you or your kids have to go through any screening before being able settle in Switzerland? If you live in Bern Bollig, could you get pictures of the "Anarchy Colony" there. It is a building/structure that can be seen from the train into Bern that is covered in Graffiti. People might get a better idea of what I was talking about in my original post. There is nothing I can find on the internet about these Swiss Subgroups. bollig posted:My offer to explain the Swiss immigration policy still stands, and I'll give you a teaser. When I applied to move here, I did not apply for residency with the federal government, I applied with the Canton/state. There are quite a few parallells between the US and Switzerland, and the relative strength of the localities/states is one of them. I understood that Kantonal regions largely govern themselves or interact with each other to perform functions (each Kantons does not have it's own courts, so using another Kantons court system is sometimes required in legal matters, if it is not dealt with locally). I also know that unlike America, the Swiss Federation groups don't really step into regional issues (unless it's about National Wireless and Satellite Communication). BUT WE'RE HORRIBLY OFF TOPIC. zomgcatsonfire posted:I've also heard about "Anarchy Colonies" is some of the main cities in Switzerland as well as local groups that directly oppose Migrants (and have done so even before the European Union). Anyone got an Example of this? Unique Groups to their Canton. I'm starting a list for each Kanton: [*]Zürich - "right next to the UBS headquarters in Altstetten at the corner of Rautistrasse and Flüelastrasse" (licensed independent nightclub / squat) [*]Bern - "the Dachstock, like a five minute walk northeast of the Bern HBF?" (licensed independent nightclub / squat) - Reitschule, which is pretty close to the HBF. I wouldn't exactly call it an Anarchist colony. It's the place to go for concerts at night. "Was a place for anarchists in the early years and still is the place for the leftist rioters to go after a night out with the police, it is much more a culture place. [*]Luzern [*]Uri [*]Schwyz [*]Obwalden [*]Nidwalden [*]Glarus [*]Zug [*]Fribourg [*]Solothurn [*]Basel-Stadt [*]Basel-Land [*]Schaffhausen [*]Appenzell Ausserrhoden [*]Appenzell Innerrhoden [*]St. Gallen [*]Graubünden [*]Aargau [*]Thurgau [*]Ticino [*]Vaud - "Lausanne which was at the east end of Ave de Sévelin next to some apartment buildings. It got torn down last year or so. AFAIK it was only a squat". [*]Valais [*]Neuchâtel [*]Geneva [*]Jura zomgcatsonfire fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Jun 2, 2016 |
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May 24, 2016 14:27
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