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Barry Convex posted:Seriously, what the gently caress is this from the Newsarama review: "Of course the cynicism of the DC Universe began here — and the only way to counteract that is to call out the “world’s greatest graphic novel” for its sins." Yeah but Watchmen opened the proverbial Pandora's Box. Oh god now I'm considering the idea that this has been a running theme in Geoff Johns' Big Event Books for a while. gently caress me.
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May 21, 2016 04:16
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ElNarez posted:Yeah but Watchmen opened the proverbial Pandora's Box. Well... 
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May 21, 2016 04:21
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Yeah saying Watchmen is responsible for how modern day DC operates is not too crazy. Having it literally be the case in the books is definitely some metacommentary. Dexie posted:Well... Holy poo poo, what is this from?
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May 21, 2016 04:29
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All hail Geoff Johns, bold repudiator of grim and gritty superhero comics. Also worth recalling that a few years before that, Johns made an earlier, ham-handed attempt to critique those comics in Infinite Crisis: 
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May 21, 2016 04:30
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X-O posted:Yeah saying Watchmen is responsible for how modern day DC operates is not too crazy. Having it literally be the case in the books is definitely some metacommentary.
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May 21, 2016 04:30
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X-O posted:Yeah saying Watchmen is responsible for how modern day DC operates is not too crazy. Having it literally be the case in the books is definitely some metacommentary. While not that picture specifically, the imagery of Krona looking at the creation of the universe as a giant blue hand is from JLA/Avengers when Krona kind of debuted. 
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May 21, 2016 04:33
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Two Tone Shoes posted:While not that picture specifically, the imagery of Krona looking at the creation of the universe as a giant blue hand is from JLA/Avengers when Krona kind of debuted. lol if this means that Watchmen was actually in a crossover comic with Marvel too. But yeah, JLU had an episode showing that hand as well.
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May 21, 2016 04:35
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Two Tone Shoes posted:While not that picture specifically, the imagery of Krona looking at the creation of the universe as a giant blue hand is from JLA/Avengers when Krona kind of debuted. You mean Crisis of Infinite Earth 
bobkatt013 fucked around with this message at 04:38 on May 21, 2016 |
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May 21, 2016 04:35
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I am 100% beyond fine with making GBS threads on Watchmen's legacy
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May 21, 2016 04:37
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Yeah I'm sorry but as someone who thinks Watchmen is largely overrated, I'm just getting more and more pleased with every revelation. I absolutely, unreservedly want to see Superman punch Dr. Manhattan in the dick. ...Oh yeah, how're they gonna get around showing Dr. Manhattan's dick, anyway? Are they gonna decrotchify him?
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May 21, 2016 04:40
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You know Dan has been wanting to do this for years, I can feel it in mah bones. The long-time blue hand/Dr. Manhattan match-up is right there with Martha/Martha as coincidences that somehow make perfect sense but are also just loving crazy in practice. (not that I hate them completely, either!) (I am willing to be swayed, is what I am saying.)
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May 21, 2016 04:42
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You would think Watchmen is overrated.
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May 21, 2016 04:43
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I wonder how Alan Moore is going to respond I also know that DC is going to have a rebirth sale starting Monday night and it will include Watchmen
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May 21, 2016 04:44
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bobkatt013 posted:I wonder how Alan Moore is going to respond I have no doubt he keeps an empty grave in the backyard of his castle, for the sole purpose of crawling into every time something like this happens, just so he can roll around in it.
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May 21, 2016 04:46
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Newsarama apparently just said gently caress it, secret's out, let's dump what we have on it. Here's some more pages. http://www.newsarama.com/29407-preview-dc-universe-rebirth-1-with-spoilers.html
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May 21, 2016 04:47
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bobkatt013 posted:I wonder how Alan Moore is going to respond Between Before Watchmen and the Miracleman reprints where he's chosen to not be credited, I think he's kinda washed his hands of the whole "big corporate comics industry" thing. He's just gonna make his spooky magic-realist movie theater comic and move on with his life.
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May 21, 2016 04:49
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BW Doctor Manhattan #4s are vanishing from online sellers all of a sudden. My store's FB inbox has 7 requests for it since 9pm.
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May 21, 2016 04:49
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X-O posted:Newsarama apparently just said gently caress it, secret's out, let's dump what we have on it. Here's some more pages.
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May 21, 2016 04:50
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BrianWilly posted:Yeah I'm sorry but as someone who thinks Watchmen is largely overrated, I'm just getting more and more pleased with every revelation. You don't have to like Watchmen, but pretending it's not a good comic - and, further insultingly, blaming what was supposed to be a totally standalone comic written as an intentional critique and inversion of the comics industry as the source of the failures of a comics initiative thirty years later that you wrote the main book for, that everyone loving hated - is some mind-blowingly offensive bullshit. Like, seriously. gently caress Geoff Johns for pulling this poo poo.
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May 21, 2016 04:52
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*reads the spoilers for this* Buh? Buuuuuuh? Hubbuh buh? Buuuuuh. I REALLY don't know what to think about all this.
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May 21, 2016 04:53
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Remember when Alan Moore called out Geoff Johns for building his career entirely on top of Moore's works?
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May 21, 2016 04:54
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redbackground posted:I love the overly-blatant "Barry was never at fault" for ruining all the pre-Flashpoint relationships. You can hear Geoff pleading through the page. Hahaha I was just gonna say that. Fan favorite Wally West as a puppet for Johns to tell Barry that it wasn't his fault at all!
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May 21, 2016 04:55
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Rhyno posted:Remember when Alan Moore called out Geoff Johns for building his career entirely on top of Moore's works? Now he's literally doing that.
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May 21, 2016 04:56
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X-O posted:Now he's literally doing that. I really want this to be Johns striking back at Moore for that comment.
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May 21, 2016 04:56
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As much as I'm genuinely interested in the idea and plan to see where it leads I find it endlessly amusing that Johns is dropping this huge bombshell and then dropping out of the comic game immediately after.
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May 21, 2016 04:57
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X-O posted:Newsarama apparently just said gently caress it, secret's out, let's dump what we have on it. Here's some more pages. They were probably told to just drop the preview since spoilers are out. Get ahead of it before the leak causes too much damage. I am amused by Barry getting his own Johnsian Parallax retcon. "No Barry, you totally didn't destroy a universe because you were sad about your mom!" Ah well I can stomach that for everything else I'm seeing.
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May 21, 2016 04:58
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Rhyno posted:Remember when Alan Moore called out Geoff Johns for building his career entirely on top of Moore's works? Actually, I don't remember this. What happened?
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May 21, 2016 04:59
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I think Alan Moore is too grumpy nowadays and his views about most modern creators are flat out wrong, but he was right on the money about Johns. It's also super lovely for DC to do this. Let Watchmen alone. Either work out a deal with Moore or keep ripping him off by publishing the comic, but actually moving those characters into continuity is some poo poo. It will be especially poo poo if they're the ones blamed for the grimdark poo poo that DC has been into ever since Identity Crisis. But hopefully that was just a really poor reading by that terrible Newsarama guy.
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May 21, 2016 04:59
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Toxxupation posted:You don't have to like Watchmen, but pretending it's not a good comic - and, further insultingly, blaming what was supposed to be a totally standalone comic written as an intentional critique and inversion of the comics industry as the source of the failures of a comics initiative thirty years later that you wrote the main book for, that everyone loving hated - is some mind-blowingly offensive bullshit. Like, seriously. gently caress Geoff Johns for pulling this poo poo.Flashp But even Moore said that people took the wrong lessons from Killing Joke and Watchmen. He was not saying that all comics should be like them. John's 52 books were also not hates. His Justice League became good and people enjoyed his Green Lantern. Just be glad he did not steal from Twilight of the Gods.
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May 21, 2016 05:01
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X-O posted:Newsarama apparently just said gently caress it, secret's out, let's dump what we have on it. Here's some more pages. Hmm, Jackson Hyde Aqualad from Brightest Day? He wasn't originally gay, was he?
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May 21, 2016 05:01
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Barry Convex posted:Hmm, Jackson Hyde Aqualad from Brightest Day? He wasn't originally gay, was he? If it counts, Greg Weisman has said Kal'durham wasn't straight in Young Justice. He was at least bi.
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May 21, 2016 05:04
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X-O posted:Newsarama apparently just said gently caress it, secret's out, let's dump what we have on it. Here's some more pages. My bet is that someone at DC saw the leak and said "gently caress it, the cat's out of the bag and Newsarama's slobbering our knob with their review, so let's lift the embargo for them." That may be cynical of me.
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May 21, 2016 05:04
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Dexie posted:Newsarama just put up their review of the issue and gave it a 10/10. Comes in both the spoilers and no spoilers variety! someone unrionically calling Geoff Johns the hero we need but not the hero we deserve is the worst thing to come out of all this
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May 21, 2016 05:09
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These spoilers look good. It is making me excited. Wednesday I will be buying my first comic in 4 years. Here is hoping it works out better this time.
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May 21, 2016 05:11
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Alan Moore is either going to have a coronary and die or laugh for five hours straight when he hears this
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May 21, 2016 05:13
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bobkatt013 posted:But even Moore said that people took the wrong lessons from Killing Joke and Watchmen. He was not saying that all comics should be like them. I know, but that's what Geoff Johns did. And then he turns around and blames them for his own failures. He was given virtually full reign to construct the New 52 the way he wanted. His mistakes were his own to make, not the result of a work he ended up cribbing the tone and "realism" from in the first place.
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May 21, 2016 05:14
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No you're mistaken. Geoff Johns wasn't given the New 52 to create. That was Dr. Manhattan.
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May 21, 2016 05:15
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X-O posted:No you're mistaken. Geoff Johns wasn't given the New 52 to create. That was Dr. Manhattan. Oh, sorry. My bad.
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May 21, 2016 05:16
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Toxxupation posted:
I understand what you're saying with the other stuff but this is utter nonsense. What Flashpoint became was not under his total guidance or control. They hijacked what was supposed to be a minor Flash Crossover event -- no bigger than Blackest Night -- and turned it into a way to reboot the universe because they were in a financial emergency. Then the New 52 happened where every book save a few corner cases were under heavy editorial scrutiny. You assume Johns, as a writer, had way more power than he did. This is the guy who set up all the poo poo after Flash Rebirth and was cut off from literally all of his plans and told to just make a bland Barry only book. He's not the overlord of Flashpoint and New52.
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May 21, 2016 05:17
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Two Tone Shoes posted:You assume Johns, as a writer, had way more power than he did. This is the guy who set up all the poo poo after Flash Rebirth and was cut off from literally all of his plans and told to just make a bland Barry only book. He's not the overlord of Flashpoint and New52.
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May 21, 2016 05:20
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