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So somehow they've managed to make a new continuity that is more confusing and convoluted than the old one?
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May 21, 2016 06:12
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taichara posted:It's especially hilarious when one considers how much of Moore's own material riffs off or directly uses the work of others. That isn't really what he's saying though. He's pointing out that the industry (which I don't agree with)/Geoff Johns (which I do) is effectively entrenched in the past and rather than developing and changing they focus on references to previous stories and adhering to that past instead of developing new ideas. And he isn't wrong.
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May 21, 2016 18:21
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quote:Johns believes, correctly, that the core message of Watchmen was grossly misunderstood and manipulated in decades following its release. The comic, Johns believes, was a warning not to become disillusioned with the values that have defined DC from the beginning: justice, legacies, epic storytelling, love. Watchmen was not an instruction manual for writing contemporary hero comics. Really, Geoff Johns. Who was one of those creators? I'm curious. Rhyno posted:And then Jason Aaron had some nice words for Mr Moore. Yeah, and that response was utterly pathetic. It was him taking a general comment way too personally and making a whiny rant about it. Like seriously, his entire thing there is him going "He said a mean thing about me (in an absurdly general sense) so I hate him now." It's like someone going "Man, all New Jersey drivers suck" and someone launching into a screaming rant about how dare you disrespect New Jersey. Edit: Haha, I noticed that another comic creator made the exact same response in that article. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:19 on May 21, 2016 |
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May 21, 2016 22:15
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BrianWilly posted:But what was the most subversively grimdark Moore-esque thing Johns has done in the Nu52? Making Billy Batson an rear end in a top hat? I haven't given much poo poo about Johns' stuff lately but as far as I know most of it has been largely, simplistically superheroic. He didn't just make Billy Batson an rear end in a top hat. He made him declare openly that nobody was actually good and then use his powers to scam money. Like gently caress, people talk about how Zach Snyder doesn't get Superman or Batman but Geoff Johns understands Captain Marvel more poorly than Zach Snyder does those characters.
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May 21, 2016 23:13
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ElNarez posted:the whole point of the story was him rising above that So? How does that defeat my point? How is having to have Captain Marvel 'rise above that' any different than having Superman angst and be sad or Batman use guns and shoot people? The point of Captain Marvel is that he is optimism and childish hope given literal form. Having him be or start as the avatar for cynicism and bitterness is completely lovely, even if he 'grows out of it' to getting his rear end beat by Batman and whining about wanting to play X-Box. Nu52 Captain Marvel loving sucks and if Rebirth gets rid of him that alone will be a huge improvement. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:25 on May 21, 2016 |
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May 21, 2016 23:23
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X-O posted:As much as I rag on Johns, and I don't think he's a very good writer now, I love his Flash run. That's why it was so disheartening to me that he was the one that basically destroyed the character that he and Waid did such good work on. If that was Johns we had been seeing for the last 10 years I think I'd have a very different opinion of him right now. Johns had an excellent Flash run, yeah.
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May 21, 2016 23:33
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ElNarez posted:Because it affirms the exact thing you're saying. It challenges the values assigned to Captain Marvel, and, using action as a way to do its demonstration, shows how those values are the ones to be adopted and followed. It's using conflict to affirm that much louder that being bitter and cynical is lovely and goes nowhere. It gives Billy texture, reasons for why he is the way he is. That would be great if the story did that but it didn't. It recycled better stories by other Captain Marvel writers and left us with a character who exists only so writers can whine about kids these days. Also the 'it gives Billy texture" is laughable if you actually read any pre-Nu52 Captain Marvel. It's so tiring how people keep defending the terrible reboot with "well, old Captain Marvel had nothing" as if, even if you discount the original character, Power of Shazam or Monster Society of Evil or countless other versions of the character didn't exist. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:56 on May 21, 2016 |
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May 21, 2016 23:53
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:So this is a thing Yes, we already know about it. Both of them exist. one is on the Titans and the other the Teen Titans.
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May 22, 2016 23:43
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Although people are speculating that Superbro is actually Kon El...somehow. Is there any evidence for that? It seems like an absurd stretch.
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May 23, 2016 04:45
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That said "Mr Oz" being Ozymandias sounds pretty fuckin' likely. Didn't the spoilers say that the "it never ends, Adrian" line is used in the book?
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May 23, 2016 07:05
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:To be fair, when Morrison was first getting established as a writer, he apparently thought it was important to build some name recognition by publicly making GBS threads on Alan Moore (he has since admitted this, both that he spent a lot of time making GBS threads on Moore and that he was doing it to cultivate a sort of 'bad boy' image for publicity purposes), so it's not like Moore's visceral dislike of Morrison is entirely baseless, but as Morrison seems to have let any further animosity fall by the wayside, Moore has picked it up and taken it home to feed and nurture into a ravenous hellbeast of discord. I don't really blame someone for not really letting it go when someone admits to making GBS threads on you to get popular with the company that screwed you over. Especially because DC lines up to suck Morrison's cock while putting out a megacrossover effectively themed "It's Alan Moore's Fault Geoff Johns Can't Stop Tearing Off Arms." (And I like Morrison, don't get me wrong, but I'd be pretty ticked off too.)
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May 23, 2016 08:00
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BrianWilly posted:Okay, on the one hand the Kon-El theory is so bonkers I'd love it to be true -- after all, if the Nu52 is the same as the pre-Flashpoint DCU, then why is there another pre-Flashpoint Superman? -- but on the other hand I don't think it can possibly, feasibly be true. Wasn't there already a Kon in the Nu52? To be fair the Nu52s were like a clone and a future child, neither of which precludes the existence of another different clone.
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May 23, 2016 08:40
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Codependent Poster posted:So I guess Johns never finished reading Watchmen or he just totally doesn't understand Dr. Manhattan or both. Geoff Johns, having only a wikipedia-level understanding of a character? Naaaah.
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May 23, 2016 18:52
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fatherboxx posted:What happened to Booster Gold in Nu52? Basically he got his brain erased and reverted back to a shittier version of his original gloryhound self. And unlike the other Nu52 characters it was explicitly the real Booster Gold getting brainwiped and not a new version of him.
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May 23, 2016 19:50
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FilthyImp posted:Wait. Didn't he get turned into Waverider because Old Booster had TimeCancer and only a trip to the heart of the Vanishing Point could cure him? That was somehow another version of Booster Gold despite the fact that Booster Gold's series explicitly ends with him ending up as the Nu52 Booster and losing his memories. It's dumb. Nu52 is dumb. Thanks a lot, DR MANHATTAN.
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May 23, 2016 19:57
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CapnAndy posted:Yeah, the same dudes who hosed everything up are the ones who are apologizing now. Isn't that how apologies are supposed to work? You don't apologize by pointing at another guy (a guy who DC notoriously and widely hosed over) and going "it's really his fault I hosed up." Even if Geoff Johns is arguing that he misread Watchmen and took the wrong lessons from it, that doesn't change the fact he's using Watchmen as the corruptive force and blaming it instead of his own mistakes. (And he's said as much in interviews so this isn't a case of 'wait and see.')
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May 24, 2016 16:42
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CapnAndy posted:All the dumb motherfuckers who misread Watchmen and took the wrong lessons from it is absolutely a corruptive force, though. I mean, Final Crisis literally called Alan Moore the corrupting force at the center of everything and a vampire who was bleeding DC to death because they couldn't shake his malign influence. Right. And that is why it's lovely. They keep blaming the dude who they hosed over and wants nothing to do with them because he wrote good stories. Instead of acknowledging their own flaws the point at a story and a writer and go 'it's his fault! HIS FAULT!"
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May 24, 2016 17:05
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Two Tone Shoes posted:So here's something they didn't do before. He is going to get so many frigging comics. Not even because the issue is bad or something.
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May 24, 2016 19:44
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TwoPair posted:I don't know why Rich keeps saying Mr. Oz/Ozymandias(?) "trained" Nu52 Superman. I just went back and read Johns' Superman run. Mr. Oz doesn't do poo poo except talk cryptically to screens and send Superman a black notebook at the end. I mean, it's implied that he orchestrated the events of that run, but I'd hardly call that "training", unless Lex Luthor's been training Superman since the 30s. He specifically says that "I taught you that."
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May 24, 2016 23:30
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Super Dan posted:Maybe she's a teenager in Tamaranian years. Go away, Hal Jordan.
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May 25, 2016 17:40
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Teenage Fansub posted:Prompted by his Comixology sale, someone in the Neogaf comics thread was hating on Darwyn Cooke for it just a day or two before before it came out that he was dying. Before Watchmen was genuinely bad even if good creatives were involved with it.
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May 25, 2016 20:36
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Teenage Fansub posted:Maybe, but dude was REALLY hating. Calling him a piece of poo poo, so I guess the hurt still exists for some people. The Cooke Before Watchmen Minutemen book had some stuff which some people considered extremely offensive especially when it came to its portrayal of homosexuals. You're free to make an argument if it was/wasn't but if someone read the book that way then I can understand why they'd actually think that. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:51 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 20:49
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