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There's a poetry to DC finally admitting that Watchmen is to blame for taking them in a super-lovely direction regarding their characters and the stories they're in. Like, symbolically, to say that, it's kinda big.
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May 21, 2016 02:05
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Barry Convex posted:Seriously, what the gently caress is this from the Newsarama review: "Of course the cynicism of the DC Universe began here — and the only way to counteract that is to call out the “world’s greatest graphic novel” for its sins." Yeah but Watchmen opened the proverbial Pandora's Box. Oh god now I'm considering the idea that this has been a running theme in Geoff Johns' Big Event Books for a while. gently caress me.
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May 21, 2016 04:16
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X-O posted:Yeah saying Watchmen is responsible for how modern day DC operates is not too crazy. Having it literally be the case in the books is definitely some metacommentary.
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May 21, 2016 04:30
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bobkatt013 posted:I wonder how Alan Moore is going to respond Between Before Watchmen and the Miracleman reprints where he's chosen to not be credited, I think he's kinda washed his hands of the whole "big corporate comics industry" thing. He's just gonna make his spooky magic-realist movie theater comic and move on with his life.
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May 21, 2016 04:49
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X-O posted:And that the implication is that Pre-N52 and N52 are the same universe but it was heavily altered as a way to weaken it for attack and it is slowly reverting back in some ways. wait but I thought Pandora made the new 52 to make them stronger against either the bad Justice League from Earth-3 or the Anti-Monitor who hosed up Earth-3, causing the bad guys to show up in the first place
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May 21, 2016 06:58
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Yeah and then Doctor Manhattan undid whatever she was going to do and made them weaker for it. yeah but all she really did was rewrite the timeline to integrate the Wildstorm characters (and the Vertigo ones, well John Constantine, because Swamp Thing was kind of in already), and, I mean, that did take place, so, does the book go into what else she did?
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May 21, 2016 07:02
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BigRed0427 posted:In case anyone cares. The spoilers caused Outhouse's clock to reset. wait I thought the clock would remain at 0 while DC employed Actual Sexual Predator Eddie Berganza also, technically, shouldn't the reset take place on wednesday when the issue comes out?
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May 21, 2016 17:19
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BrianWilly posted:No idea who that last guy is but the rest of it is just seems like straightforward comic book supervillainy which is about as un-Moore-like as you can get. Not exactly the same as Robin shooting an insane girl in the face if you ask me. Ulysses was the villain of the Superman run he did with Romita. His set-up is that he's Superman, except his parents were Earth scientists who sent him to an alternate dimension, because they feared Earth would blow up. He basically shows up with giant ships and tries taking people, but Superman stops him with his new Solar Flare power.
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May 21, 2016 22:59
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ImpAtom posted:He didn't just make Billy Batson an rear end in a top hat. He made him declare openly that nobody was actually good and then use his powers to scam money. the whole point of the story was him rising above that much like the whole point of the first justice league arc was them going from being pissy at each other to beating Darkseid much like Simon Baz went from having to steal cars to make ends meet to being the Green Lantern doing all kinds of impossible poo poo because no one told him he couldn't it's all there, the intent and the execution are always the same, people overcome flaws that are made very clear and very literal, and achieve greatness we can debate how well he does it, but let's not claim he doesn't
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May 21, 2016 23:20
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ImpAtom posted:So? How does that defeat my point? How is having to have Captain Marvel 'rise above that' any different than having Superman angst and be sad or Batman use guns and shoot people? Because it affirms the exact thing you're saying. It challenges the values assigned to Captain Marvel, and, using action as a way to do its demonstration, shows how those values are the ones to be adopted and followed. It's using conflict to affirm that much louder that being bitter and cynical is lovely and goes nowhere. It gives Billy texture, reasons for why he is the way he is. That way of characterizing people is old as hell, it's pretty much the reason why Marvel got successfull in the first place. We could complain about how Spider-Man starts out irresponsible and vain, but, you know, he rises above that.
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May 21, 2016 23:50
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TwoPair posted:I couldn't stop myself from spoiling myself. Jesus, what a shitshow The Moore/Morrison beef is old as hell. For more, I recommend The Last War in Albion. http://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/tag/last-war-in-albion/
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May 23, 2016 05:11
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TFRazorsaw posted:Wow. It's kinda sorta reiterating a point he made in Seven Soldiers with Zor the Terrible Time Tailor. You can even find it in Flex Mentallo. It's a condemnation of "grim for the sake of grim because that uncompromising and total approach is the only way comics can mean something" most people would here would agree with.
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May 25, 2016 06:22
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CharlestheHammer posted:The problem is Alan Moore for all his faults never attempted that. Alan Moore just makes a convenient scapegoat. This shows that ultimately Dan and Johns have learned nothing. Dan Dreiberg is a bored man-child who can only get off when he's playing superhero. And, in Watchmen, that totally makes sense, you know, it's a book, in part, about the kind of relationship we have with punch man comics, and the sexual aspect of it warrants discussion. But it's the kind of thing that only fits in Watchmen, because of this total approach Moore and Gibbons have taken. Doing this in mainline DCU comics, as we've seen a lot, leads to lots of awkward comics about Batman's boners. Which, I don't think anyone reads Batman books for. I don't think Johns is using Moore as a scapegoat. I think his argument is that trying to do Watchmen in our goofy comics about underpants people is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. In Johnsian literalist terms, it's Doctor Manhattan trying to experiment by shaping a world and only creating misery. Moore is not to blame, it's just that his approach is entirely incompatible with the DCU. Geoff Johns' comics are not comparable to Watchmen. They do not do what Watchmen did, except for the graphic violence. It's not the same thing, Geoff Johns isn't trying to question anything, he just thinks people barfing blood at one another makes for a weird, cool visual that evokes the kind of gut feeling he wants people to experience.
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May 25, 2016 06:49
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Teenage Fansub posted:He's head of Checkmate right now. He emerged again in the last couple of months. I can't quite remember what comic it was. Grayson.
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May 25, 2016 21:22
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