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CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


I like his dad a lot better. He gets really fuckin mad at Quark a few episodes later and had really pissed off dad protecting his son energy down pat.

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CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Voyager is worth a full watch if for no other reason than the EMH.

It was like the 3rd episode he slaps Paris and became one of the best trek characters.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


I ordered the TNG technical manual because I could have sworn those weird rectangles on the back of the Enterprise D weren't the arboretum. It arrived today and I can find absolutely no reference to them at all. :(

Oh well, at least I have the technical manual again. I lost it in a move like 20 years back.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


womb with a view posted:

Try to make the Kazon cool. Turn their weed bud hair into actual weed

Are the Kazon in disco?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Neddy Seagoon posted:

Nah, they clearly want rid of Old Discovery as much as the audience, I think. The writing has repeatedly gone to lengths to paste the words "WE KNOW IT SUCKED, WE'RE STARTING OVER FROM SCRATCH!" in big neon letters over everything.

Have they unfucked klingons and turned the main character lady into someone who isn't at all related to spock?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


HD DAD posted:

They unfucked the Klingons in season 2, and as someone else said, Burnham essentially turns to the camera multiple times and screams “we’re rebooting my character”.

I might try it again and just start at season 3 then.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Janeway did the right thing.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


RaySmuckles posted:

harry, you should have hosed the girl and then worried about where you were and how

Harry will always blow it with the girl. Always.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Johnny Aztec posted:

A problem I have with the Tuxiv thing is that (beyond the fact that they should have been able to just clone another Tuvok/neelix anyway)

is that Tuvok and Neelix were fully merged. It wasn't frankensteined up. Their minds, personality, and memories were one. Tuvix was greater than it's parts.

Can you take Tin and Copper, melt them into a mold, and then try and separate the Tin and Copper out of the Brass?
No*, you can't. Just like there was no way of separating out which pieces were Tuvok and which were Neelix.




yeah yeah, they should be able to separate the bonds with their level of tech

you can't just assume two people are okay not being themselves because they can't tell you otherwise.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Johnny Aztec posted:

Tuvix IS Tuvok and Neelix. Tuvix has all their memories, personalities, everything!

Being a mixed personality with another person is death to both personalities and creation of a new one.

Just because the new one is a blend of the two old ones doesn't mean that the two old ones are there in their unmodified form. It's very specifically not that.

Also using the teleporter to just print new crewmembers wouldn't work very well in anything BUT lower decks. And ESPECIALLY poorly in Voyager where the whole tension is "how can we manage to get home with limited resources"

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


womb with a view posted:

Oh god wait so do Tuvok and Neelix both have memories of being Tuvix? Do they know what Janeway did? Do they remember protesting for their collective life? Does Neelix now know everything about Tuvok because his brain was in the same jar and vice versa??

I'm doing a full Trek rewatch so when I get there i'll look into this.

Also, i'd like to point out that transporter patterns are too large to keep copies of. Also reading of the pattern destroys it in the buffer. Tuvix gets separated by radio tagging genomes (which is a particularly hand wavey woo woo way of doing it).

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Yes, but that was a split annular confinement beam, not a copied pattern in the pattern buffer.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


jsoh posted:

also they have biohazard quarantine things built into their transporter but people still die if viruses and poisons and stuff. dumb poo poo

The biofilter can only work on known diseases, or diseases that are close enough to known diseases. Totally new stuff gets by it. It's not perfect.

That being said there was an episode where someone had a cold and I was like "Why are you not just doing a pad to pad transport to cure your cold immediately?!?"

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


jsoh posted:

im thinking of the tng episode where like, fuckin the king of the klingons knew he was poisoned and probably what the poison was and died of it anyway

The biofilter filters biological components like viruses or microorganisms. Most poisons are not those, but chemical compounds.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Bride of Chaotica!

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


I mean, radiation poisoning is the damage caused to tissue from radiation. Even if they can filter out the radioactive elements themselves, the damage has been done and needs to be fixed by some other means.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Torquemada posted:

This has a surprisingly low user score on IMDB, I have fond memories of it.

That's because IMDB users are up their own rear end about "cinema". I mean, Vampires has a 6.2. Escape from L.A. has 5.8.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


RocketSurgeon posted:

Hello thread. I think im finally drunk enough to post in the ST thread again. I'm not sure when I last posted but I think it was either the end of TNG or sometime douring DS9.
Either way despite ds9 feeling kind of different it grew on me more than tng did. Some of the episodes I watched with my brother got him engaged as well(GOWRON).
Both series were great to leave on as background noise for the slower episodes while the story heavy ones were REALLY good.
After ds9 ended I decided to try OG trek which as dated as it might seem. I did see how it caught the imaginations of millions of people.
Now im up to the animated series and telling myself im not going to go any further than that.
Except I watched Picard as it aired and holy loving poo poo was it bad. Dont ever watch picard, please

You should put Lower Decks in there somewhere.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


He's not a good guy.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Eighties ZomCom posted:

Edit: Also I can't hear about Adira without briefly thinking about Babylon 5 first.

Why do you gotta bring in sad poo poo?!

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Not mentioned: That's designed to move through a liquid using a chemical reaction.

They literally made it go through fluidic space.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


GolfHole posted:

today i randomly thought about how seemingly every time someone tries to resign from starfleet, its pretty much immediately rejected without process

is starfleet a prison corps?

Worf's resignation in DS9 was rejected only until the crisis with the Klingons was over. After wards it went through just fine, but Sisco managed to change his mind.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


numberoneposter posted:

my absolute favorite star trek-ism is when people from non-warp civilizations or even federation citizens decide to exit themselves from the system

how many years of sustenance beet farming before they change their mind?

does the federation leave like an emergency transponder for that contingency?

There was that ludite planet that O'brian and Sisko land on, and then decide "eh, it's fine not having running water or medicine actually" once they find out technology was muted by a field the crazy rear end lead lady ran.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Colonel Cancer posted:

We can't all just sit in the holodeck all day and jerk off

The holodeck filters get filled up if you do that too much.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Ghostlight posted:

They covered up that there were more viable hosts than publicly acknowledged, but it still wasn't a dominant section of their population and it's not inconceivable that a specific genetic variation might die off over a millennium, especially with a massive population cull.

DS9 Literally says "nearly half" so i guess technically you're right that it wasn't a dominant section but in that technically correct way that you still sound like you weren't paying any attention.

Also the worst continuity problem is that they changed the spots.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


numberoneposter posted:

Notable First Contact quotes:

Dr. Zefram Cochrane: And you people, you're all astronauts on... some kind of star trek.

Lt. Commander Worf: [before blasting some Borg] Assimilate this!

Drunk Troi: Time? We don't have the TIME, to talk about TIME.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Eighties ZomCom posted:

Just saw Future Imperfect and realized this was where Disco got the awful idea of putting rank on the badges. At least in this you could clearly tell the rank from a glance.

Having the bars behind the badge makes sense, except how did they do the middle ranks?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Yea, but what about lieutenant jg, or lieutenant commander? With the pips they just have one extra one that is black in the middle.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Neddy Seagoon posted:

With all the poo poo Worf's put up with over the years, he'd earned a line like "Assimilate this" and actually landing the kill.

I really like how the Bajoran lt on Lower decks is so obviously a worf knock off of literally begging the captain to let him shoot something and never getting to.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


mossyfisk posted:

If we're going to have this argument for the fiftieth time, shouldn't we at least add a tortured topical twist?

Feds = US, Maquis = Kurds, Cardassians = Turkey

nah, the Maquis aren't an actual civlization or society.

It's a bunch of different societies who's only common factor is they hate cardassians.

Like, the federation was offering to move them and help them rebuild. And it's not like they're leaving their ancestral places, they were only there for a few years.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


hakimashou posted:

The maquis are equivalent to white supremacists or white separatists.

Acceptable races like human, vulcan, bolian whatever are the dominant 'white' races, and cardassians are the hated other.

lol wut.

Like, yea they hated cardassians but it was because of the whole cardassians being authoritative shitheads. It's not otherizing which is scapegoating some minority.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


womb with a view posted:

Voyager shows us that the Maquis totally 100% suck and it's a massive question mark how anything gets done at all, because unless they're forced to behave like Starfleet they just fight and disobey orders and do nothing all day.

B'Elanna shows up super late to work for a week straight, Chakotay's like "what gives?" She tells him she's been having dreams. But not nightmares, no. They're erotic dreams. She's been sleeping in past her shift start time every day because she wants to keep having sex dreams with the guy from Whose Line is it Anyway. She tells this to her direct supervisor. He agrees that this is a good reason to keep being late for work and fucks off to go be useless elsewhere.

What, you don't think having a good work/life balance is important?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


CaptainSkinny posted:

It's called the Hazard Team!

Who were also the characters of Elite Force, a good old game.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


sweet geek swag posted:

The fed colonists were ordered to leave, but Picard felt guilty about something a person who might have been his ancestor did so he renegotiated the entire treaty. After this, the explicit Starfleet position was that the colonists should stay on these worlds if they wanted to. The colonists assumed that this meant that if the Cardassians broke the treaty, the Federation would have their back.

So when the Cardassians broke the treaty and the Maquis started fighting back, they were very surprised to learn that the Federation was calling them out instead of the treaty breakers. To be fair, every action that the Maquis take after this point is extremely dumb, but up to this point they'd been acting in good faith.

That isn't what happened.

The armistice was agreed to in 2367. The treaty was actually done 3 years later. The troop movements and the destruction of a colony and trying to frame it on bajorans was all pre-treaty.

They were never told "oh you can totally live here and have the same rights and protections as if you lived in the federation" They were told, repeatedly, that they should move and the federation will help them move.

The "treaty" you're thinking of with Picard wasn't a treaty but was those federation citizens renouncing their citizenship and joining the cardassian government.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


sweet geek swag posted:

The treaty I am talking about with Picard was a complete renegotiation of the Cardassian treaty.

Yes, I understand you are claiming this but it doesn't actually happen. You should watch the episode again.

Picard: "Anthwara, I want to be absolutely sure that you understand the implications of this agreement. By giving up your status as Federation Citizens, any future request you or your people make to starfleet will go unanswered. You will be on your own, and under Cardassian jurisdiction."

They don't change the treaty. It was literally just that one specifically colony not getting lined up and shot offhand.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


sweet geek swag posted:

You know that there was more than one Maquis colony, right? That's what the Maquis were, Federation colonists who submitted to Cardassian rule in order to keep their colonies, only to have the Cardassians immediately try to kill them. And the Cardassians would have to agree to let them stay. Maybe this was an under the table deal, but effectively it is a renegotiation of the treaty as written, and it applied to every Maquis colony.

You were specifically talking about that one episode with that one colony. Now that you've been shown you don't know what you're talking about you're just gonna chuck those goal posts at warp 6.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


sweet geek swag posted:

Picard felt guilty about something a person who might have been his ancestor did so he renegotiated the entire treaty.

sweet geek swag posted:

the agreement in Journeys End

This is you moving goalposts.

First you claim he renegotiated the treaty. Now it's "an agreement" that applies to the whole DMZ. Which is also not supported by any episode anywhere.


John Wick of Dogs posted:

Meanwhile, Nog plays pranks to impress a girl

He also does things like refrain from demanding she chew his food for him.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


sweet geek swag posted:

Yes, I did use a synonym. Not only did I use a synonym, I used the synonym that was in the definition. So if I moved the goalposts I moved it from one word to the closest possible synonym of that word. I am so sorry, I should have realised that if I didn't use the precise same terminology one of the biggest pedants on this website would 'well actually' me.

And Journey's End only deals with that one colony, but in Maquis Part 1, the direct sequel to that episode, which takes place only weeks later, the entire DMZ is operating under that agreement. This strongly indicates that the agreement Picard reached was what caused the crisis.

Yea, it's pedantry and not you being factually incorrect about what happens in the episode you are referencing. In no way are you just trying to cloud the issue and claim you were arguing different things the whole time as you slowly realize you were just wrong and aren't capable of going "oh I was wrong"

The treaty (or agreement, whatever word you want to use to try and muddle the point) does not get renegotiated. The terms of the treaty are entirely unchanged. That's what makes this whole stupid ting kinda funny really. You keep using an example of people solving a problem to maintain compliance to the terms of the treaty without changing the terms of the treaty as an example of the terms of the treaty changing.

They didn't change the treaty, they literally just said "well if we just make these people non-federation citizens then the treaty doesn't apply to them anymore!"

I suggest you actually watch the show so you know what you're talking about in the future. Maybe then you can find an example where the "renounce citizenship" gets applied literally anywhere else. Because it doesn't. The DMZ is a zone that covers both federation and cardassian planets.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Endless Trash posted:

Moving the parrises squares posts, surely

Or maybe that weird honor fighting rink with the light bulb posts from that episode where Tasha has to fight a queen.

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CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


sweet geek swag posted:

I suggest you actually watch the show so you know what you're talking about in the future. Maybe then you can find an example where the Maquis aren't all in the Cardassian side of the DMZ.

I can think of one example just right off the top of my head.

Calvin Hudson.

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