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How hard or easy is it to make a living via poker, if you just want to make enough to live normally? I mean, where you just want to make the equivalent of $100 to $200 a day, not try and be a millionaire several times over. Do people do that, just play enough to make a basic wage?
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Jun 6, 2016 22:03
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I played in one of the WSOP nevada freebie online tourneys yesterday and now I remember why I stopped going to poker rooms: it's pretty bloody loving boring 99% of the time. I saw 12% of flops which I guess is about right, but that meant most of the time I was ticking 'fold' for when my turn came around and alt tabbing to watch youtube or whatever. Not an option in live rooms, which are slower than online anyway. I wonder if cash games instead of tourneys would be any different, but I'd rather not spend a lot of money on it, so I probably won't find out. Question for the thread: how do you stay entertained at the table when it's boring? How much attention do you pay before you stop caring? I know I should be watching the other people's actions but really there's only so much I can learn at my novice level, and it's just not interesting to me if I've already decided I'm out. 
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Jun 6, 2016 22:46
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Ciaphas posted:How hard or easy is it to make a living via poker, if you just want to make enough to live normally? I mean, where you just want to make the equivalent of $100 to $200 a day, not try and be a millionaire several times over. Do people do that, just play enough to make a basic wage? Could you make a living playing Poker? It depends on a lot of factors. Do you live somewhere where you can play poker regularly? At higher stakes? Against bad players? For many hours a week? Do you have access to good online poker? Are you good at Poker? Are you willing to put in the tens of thousands of hours of practice, study, and play it takes to become a sustainably winning player? Are you actually talented, dedicated, and interested enough to succeed? Are you able to keep your head in the game and stay interested when you're playing for 40+ hours a week, week after week? Many Poker players will tell you, anyone that is skilled and dedicated enough to succeed at playing Poker for a living could make more money doing something else. Say you check off all the boxes above boxes, how well can you handle the swings of Poker? Are you properly bankrolled so you can survive a swing of bad luck that lasts several months? Are you mentally prepared for losing money at your "job" for several months? Will you lose your confidence in your game? Are your friends / family / significant others okay with this, and willing to stay with you through it? Will you actually enjoy it when you're doing this for a living instead of for fun? Can you handle your finances well on your own? Can you budget for downswings, taxes, and insurance? Are you capable of controlling yourself so you don't take too big of risks at the table, play too big of games, play other table games, or just get drunk and blow off your winnings? Plenty of people make livings off of Poker, some meager, some extravagant. From talking to pros, one thing I've found is that for most players, it's a temporary portion of your life. Many people bust out. Many get burned out from the highs and lows, find they just don't enjoy it as much as they thought, or have difficulty maintaining relationships or a normal life. For me, I really enjoy it as a hobby that pays for itself right now. I could see myself one day, years from now, considering it as a career, but I'd need some really convincing evidence that I could be successful at it, would actually enjoy the grind, would like more than my current job, and wouldn't be holding myself back from other things I want to do with my life. I think in the old days, when Poker was easy and there was tons of online action to be had, you could definitely do it as a part time gig without altering the trajectory of your life. Nowadays it's tougher, the bar is much higher, and I think a lot of folks find that you have to give up more than it's worth. Bloody Hedgehog posted:Question for the thread: how do you stay entertained at the table when it's boring? How much attention do you pay before you stop caring? I know I should be watching the other people's actions but really there's only so much I can learn at my novice level, and it's just not interesting to me if I've already decided I'm out. You want to analyze their play, figure out where they're making mistakes, and ask yourself what the best way to take advantage of their mistakes are. For example, if you find that they're playing basically every hand and will call any bet preflop, then you should try to play better hands and bet big preflop to maximize their mistakes. On the other hand, if they're playing very scared and like to fold unless they have the nuts, you should be trying to steal the pot at every chance you get. Watch their play. Try to guess what hand they have in every pot. Were you right? Make a note. Were you wrong? Think about what mislead you, and how that should change your perception of the player's play. Then, you can start watching for tells; ways they act, ways they talk, ways they bet, how long they think, etc. If you can't keep yourself focused when thinking about these things, you're going to be limiting your ability to play at a high level. That's okay though; if you're mostly playing for fun, it's fine to not play it perfect and just find other ways to enjoy the game. Talk to people, make bets on the side, have some drinks, play some games on your phone, listen to music, whatever. You don't always have to play your A-game if you're in it for your own enjoyment. I'll also say that in live Poker, if you're one of the better players at the table, it's your job to keep folks entertained so they have a reason to keep playing. There's nothing wrong with talking with people, having some drinks, doing some straddles, blind bets, and other nonsense to keep folks in the game. If your opponents are playing for fun and they're not having a good time, they're unlikely to come back.
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Jun 7, 2016 00:08
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:How hard or easy is it to make a living via poker, if you just want to make enough to live normally? I mean, where you just want to make the equivalent of $100 to $200 a day, not try and be a millionaire several times over. Do people do that, just play enough to make a basic wage? Plenty of people do. There are lots of low and midstakes online grinders that play hundreds of thousands of hands a month and make a decent profit. However, you really need a certain kind of mindset to do this. You need to constantly study your game, you need to be able to weather the swings inherent in the game. There will be days, weeks, even months where you play your A game, and still lose money. If you go to forums like 2+2 you can see graphs where even top-tier players have had truly disgusting downswings. I briefly thought about trying to play as a pro while I was at Uni, but soon decided that a) I was nowhere good enough, and b) it's just not that fulfilling and enjoyable. Sitting around with your friends and a few beers playing for $20 or something - that is awesome fun. Grinding away online for 8 or more hours a day - very quickly becomes draining and soul-destroying.
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Jun 7, 2016 04:05
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Ciaphas posted:I played in one of the WSOP nevada freebie online tourneys yesterday and now I remember why I stopped going to poker rooms: it's pretty bloody loving boring 99% of the time. I saw 12% of flops which I guess is about right, but that meant most of the time I was ticking 'fold' for when my turn came around and alt tabbing to watch youtube or whatever. Not an option in live rooms, which are slower than online anyway. I take a break at least every two hours but IMO it's important to find some way to occupy yourself when you don't have a hand. Preferrably something that leads to an advantage in a hand later, but if not that just being social with a new or old player or whatever. There are times though when everyone is still and no one is talking and it gets real grindy and lovely. Online you just open enough tables to where you don't have long in between decisions. Open up tables until you're on the edge of comfort, then close a table and do that is a good rule of thumb. I've almost always played cash, almost never tournaments (apart from some freerolls I played in Vegas because hours in a room or a high hand got me a free entry). raton fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 04:13
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How realistic was the movie Rounders? I know with Hollywood anything there is always going to be some kind of artistic license, but I'm curious how true to life overall that movie is.
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Jun 7, 2016 04:22
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Bardeh posted:Grinding away online for 8 or more hours a day - very quickly becomes draining and soul-destroying. Yeah, but so are 90% of the jobs out there.
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Jun 7, 2016 05:14
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Yeah, but so are 90% of the jobs out there. At least with those jobs, you get a guaranteed paycheck at the end of the month. That isn't necessarily true with poker, and even if you're a proven winning player it can be incredibly demoralising to have a losing month even when you feel that you're making good decisions. If you have the mental fortitude and the bankroll to weather the swings and not let them affect your game, then by all means, give it a try. Just bear in mind that it's going to be a massive gap on your resume if you ever want to get out of the game (and you probably will at some point, nearly everybody does) Bardeh fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 05:25
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Thank you for answering my questions, OP
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Jun 7, 2016 05:31
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Bardeh posted:At least with those jobs, you get a guaranteed paycheck at the end of the month. That isn't necessarily true with poker, and even if you're a proven winning player it can be incredibly demoralising to have a losing month even when you feel that you're making good decisions. If you have the mental fortitude and the bankroll to weather the swings and not let them affect your game, then by all means, give it a try. I've never really thought about doing myself. I was always curious if there was a class of poker players out there who aren't playing to become rich, just playing to make enough to live comfortably and avoid a real job. Even if I did decide to really make a go at poker, it would just be for fun money. I'm in Canada as well, so no real red tape either, as far as I know. I've got the online option, and 5+ casinos within a 20 minute drive of my place.
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Jun 7, 2016 05:40
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:I've never really thought about doing myself. I was always curious if there was a class of poker players out there who aren't playing to become rich, just playing to make enough to live comfortably and avoid a real job. I play live poker recreationally/semi-professionally and there are a bunch of people there who play to avoid getting a real job at the casinos I play at. They are mostly just young grinders though who share a house and just need money for rent/food/weed. One of them has currently started taking community college classes because he's figured out that poker isn't going to support any sort of decent lifestyle for him. Poker has been a serious hobby of mine for about 5 years now. I mainly just play live cash and tournaments and rarely play online because I actually like the social interaction vs. sitting in front of a computer screen. I am a winning player for sure but I would never, ever consider making it a full time job. There are way too many ups and downs and even just playing for fun, the ups and downs sometimes weigh on me. Can't imagine having to actually depend on the results of some poker hands in order to pay bills, even if you know you are a long-term winner.
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Jun 7, 2016 14:49
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Skoll posted:How realistic was the movie Rounders? I know with Hollywood anything there is always going to be some kind of artistic license, but I'm curious how true to life overall that movie is. **Very Minor Spoilers Ahead** One thing that a lot of folks don't get about Rounders is that the protagonist is not meant to be inspirational. He is a young kid who is determined to bust his bankroll and go broke time and time again. Anybody who has played Poker long enough knows players like this. The variance in Poker is too high to just risk your whole bankroll on a single game. Ideally, you should have 50+ buy-ins ready for any game you play. This kid is going to go to Vegas and lose all of his money in a week. There's a sensible character in the movie that tries to warn him about this, but he doesn't listen, and the ending is pretty bittersweet for anyone who's played long enough to know better. There are some flaws with Poker in Rounders. For starters, basically no one has tells that are as black and white, spot on as the Russian's cookie eating tell; this is pure fantasy for dramatic effect. In reality, Poker tells are typically minor things that only serve to influence your decisions over time; you almost never make a move based on one single tell. I think there's also a point in the movie where they pull the classic "I see your bet, and raise you $500." This doesn't fly in a real Poker game. You can't call and follow it up with a raise, you have to announce your raise up front. The reason for this is that you could change your action based on your opponent's response to you saying "I see your bet." If they look scared, you could then raise them, or if not, you could choose not to. Actions in Poker have to be announced all at once, so the proper thing to say would simply be "I raise to $500." In a similar vein, I think there's also a point in Rounders where the Russian "string bets," meaning when he raises, he puts his chips out a few at a time, increasing the amount of his raise gradually. This isn't allowed in a real Poker game for the same reason mentioned above. While we're on the subject of Poker movie blunders, one of the things you commonly seen messed up in movies is Table Stakes. You see this when one player goes all-in, and then the next player goes "I see your all-in," then reaches in their pocket "and raise you my new Porsche," throwing their keys on the table. The other player then gets nervous, says they can't call that, and fold. Pretty much no one plays like this. In Poker, you can only win or lose what you have on the table. If you go all-in and someone has more than you, they can't raise you over your stack, they just have to call, and you'll win whatever was in your stack if you win. You can't add on to your stack in the middle of the hand. Without this, Poker would become even more of a giant dick waving contest, where whoever had the most money in their pocket could always win because no one would be able to call them. This doesn't happen in real games.
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Jun 7, 2016 16:10
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Here are two specific scenes in Rounders that were written right but acted/directed wrong: - Damon tell his "I bluffed Johnny Chan" story to Knish. Every long term player has a story about a play they made against some one sort of famous. I, for example, bluffed Paul Magril because he brought some of his buddies into a low limit game and we got into a hand together. In the story Damon tells he didn't play very many hands recently and then for no reason decides to bluff Chan out of the pot. This is fine (or fine-ish). What isn't fine is that Chan gives several indications that now is not the time for a bluff that Damon ignores and keeps pressing -- in Hold'em there are enough situations where the opponent knows his hand is unbeatable (or nearly unbeatable like the A9 vs AA on A9x9x board that busts Damon at the outset) that you can't bluff despite your image. His dialog at the end shouldn't be so confident, if his character was really that way he wouldn't be great at poker and that little speech would be a reason for Knish to deny him the loan rather than go through with it. -The fact that he blew out his whole bankroll on a single play is ludicrous. No one who lives off of poker would ever play that way. Even the most ancient poker texts recommend a 30 buyin bankroll for no limit and have pages of warnings about "not playing over your roll." Today even fairly well off poker players do not enter tournaments with million dollar entries on their own dime (they have investors that buy a certain percentage of their win at a certain rate, usually with a small vig, often for just that one tournament or for that one and others in the series, sometimes as a long term standing deal). There are poker players who play this way and are pretty good at poker but the person you respect most in a poker room is Knish, not Damon. His ability to put it all on the line and take risks is foolish, not some little mark of excellence. Knish brings this up in one very good speech in the movie but apart from that the movie wants the viewer to think that it's, like, plucky or something to do this, instead of blatantly retarded. The speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7NxEj4A1Cg&t=90s raton fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 16:37
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Oh yeah, I forgot about the bluff story. It's like the most mundane poker story in the world. "I kept putting chips in the pot without thinking about the hand, and eventually he folded; I beat the best player in the world!" This is another thing that popular culture gets wrong about Poker: bluffing. Bluffs are calculated: you look at the board, try to figure out what hands your opponent might have, try to figure out what hands you could reliably represent, and then ask yourself what percentage of the time your opponent is likely to fold. Against good players, you have to tell a convincing story about the hands you could have and you have that are better than theirs. You have to bluff in spots where you reasonably could play the exact same way with better cards. And against some weaker opponents, you can never bluff, because they call way too often. The most common bluffs - semi-bluffs - usually have some outs to improve as well; meaning even if your opponent decides to call your bluff, you still have a chance of making a better hand than them. The "I'm just going to pretend my cards are good and push you out of the pot with lots of chips" type of bluff is relatively rare in Poker, and really requires you understanding your opponents and when they're going to fold. Blindly shoving your chips in the pot to boss people around is a nice way to lose money really quick at the Poker table.
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Jun 7, 2016 17:44
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Is Phil Helmuth as big of a twat as he comes off as or is it an act for TV? He's had some truly inspiring meltdowns in his time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYD6ZL0u7Ls
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Jun 8, 2016 01:24
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Is Phil Helmuth as big of a twat as he comes off as or is it an act for TV? He's had some truly inspiring meltdowns in his time. He was the first TV poker guy I ran across. He's not playing a character on TV. He's a mental baby who can't control himself sometimes, the rest of the time however he's a decent to good person which honestly you can't say for every poker player. Was it in Rounders where they said the nicer the guy the worse the player? Because to a certain extent (regarding casual players at least) it's true. He may let himself go off more easily when a camera is there because he decided at some point that it was good for his brand or something but I think it's all genuine feelings that he lets go. He's also a big guy. I'm six three and he was easily taller than I am. Six six or so at least. Wearing his thigh length leather jacket in Aria. raton fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Jun 8, 2016 |
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Jun 8, 2016 01:38
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Please witness maybe the worst call ever televised along with the most unjustifiable blow up, courtesy of Phil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waaU_ir7fgA (Please note that the poker analysis for this show was written by former goon and current 2+2 admin Gobboboy, I think he also ran the stats for them for win rates and stuff like that) Here's an analysis of why it's such an absolutely terrible call: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCNXV_Nk6_c (Please note that this YouTube channel is my favorite poker related one -- their analyses are really well done. Also the guys that worry me the most at a poker table look like the two presenters do for this channel, not some flashy thrillionaire dipshit but some mild half slobby dork) raton fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Jun 8, 2016 |
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Jun 8, 2016 01:44
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He's no Bill Fillmaff.
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Jun 8, 2016 02:09
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He was up against puppy feet after all
raton fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jun 8, 2016 |
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Jun 8, 2016 02:11
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Has anybody watched the documentary on the Ultimatebet/Absolute Poker superuser scandal? I want to see it but forget what it's called. The short story is that you can google people's usernames on poker sites, and there are public sites that track (approximately) what their results have been. There was a user on Absolute Poker whose profits were at an unsustainable level over a sample size where it would be statistically impossible to maintain that much profit. Some people from, I think, 2+2 looked into it and started setting traps for the person to see if they were cheating and could somehow see other players' cards, playing hands in a way that the person would only continue if they were cheating (I recall something where they called a big bluff with a hand that was the second worst hand possible, while the person playing them had the worst possible hand). Eventually it was discovered that people running the sites had the ability to set up superuser accounts that could see all of their opponents' cards, but the details beyond that are muddy to me. Keg fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jun 8, 2016 |
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Jun 8, 2016 02:22
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One of my biggest reservations about playing on Bovada (although I still do) is that historically cheaters and bots were almost always caught by the player community rather than the site itself. (Bovada is set up so you don't know who you're playing, everyone just has a number corresponding to their seat, and they make using tracking software difficult.) And the hysterical amount of two/three seating that must go on there out of the micros. raton fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Jun 8, 2016 |
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Jun 8, 2016 02:28
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Imaduck posted:I think this could come back if online poker becomes easier to use and more popular again. Basically, this means more states are going to have to legalize online poker, and the player pools will need to be merged. From what I understand - while it's not as good as the pre-Black Friday ages - there are still plenty of bad players to be found on Pokerstars international. The brief explosion of daily fantasy sports in the states tells me that there are still plenty of Americans that'd be willing to gamble online if they were given the opportunity. Right now, people have to jump through way too many hoops to play in the US, so only somewhat dedicated players are going to end up on the sites. PITR got me started. Reading posts from JCarver, EC10, Adar..then transitioned to Cardrunners and HUSNG.com with CTS, Lotto Lenya, Croixdawg, etc. Not sure what you would define as "big". I made six figures plus most years playing $60-300 six max and then later on heads up SNGs, making videos for Cardrunners and PokerStrategy, coaching, running a stable, etc. What made me quit? I've been doing real estate for about five years because I knew poker wasn't going to last with the government crackdowns...buying rentals, doing flips, etc. Last year I decided it was time to push off and pivot hard into something permament. Games were really bad, I would be waiting for two hours for a $100 game, on a good day maybe play 20 games..it just got old real quick. Super glad I did it though. It gave me the freedom to do what I wanted when I wanted for a long time. Never working more than 30 hours a week, traveling to Iceland, waking up and deciding I am going to go golf instead of work, buying investment properties, etc. It treated me very well. One story sticks out. I was never a MTT player but one year I decided to do the whole WSOP thing. I thought I would play a light schedule, maybe 15 tournaments. The first day there I get to the Rio and valet my truck and I am walking in and realize I left fifty grand in cash on the passenger seat (I was so green back then I didn't realize you could wire money to the cage there). I go into a dead sprint to catch the guy valeting my car and grab it. Phew, that could of been a bad start. The first event I play was the $2,500 mixed limit / no limit. In the first ten minutes I get it in with AA against AK and AK. I am thinking "this is how my legend begins, tripling up and final tabling my first ever WSOP tournament" then it four flushed and I lost. Oh well, I have a good bad beat WSOP story I thought. Then the next day I got food poisoning from some bad Thai food. I end up in the hospital near death and miss the entire rest of the series. Maybe it was God's way of telling me to stay away from MTTs.
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Jun 8, 2016 06:17
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Thanks faarcyde, that's really interesting! Are you in the US? Did you consider going overseas for better Poker action, or were you just ready to get out of it?
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Jun 9, 2016 00:08
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faarcyde posted:PITR got me started. Reading posts from JCarver, EC10, Adar..then transitioned to Cardrunners and HUSNG.com with CTS, Lotto Lenya, Croixdawg, etc. Not sure what you would define as "big". I made six figures plus most years playing $60-300 six max and then later on heads up SNGs, making videos for Cardrunners and PokerStrategy, coaching, running a stable, etc. What made me quit? I've been doing real estate for about five years because I knew poker wasn't going to last with the government crackdowns...buying rentals, doing flips, etc. Last year I decided it was time to push off and pivot hard into something permament. Games were really bad, I would be waiting for two hours for a $100 game, on a good day maybe play 20 games..it just got old real quick. Super glad I did it though. It gave me the freedom to do what I wanted when I wanted for a long time. Never working more than 30 hours a week, traveling to Iceland, waking up and deciding I am going to go golf instead of work, buying investment properties, etc. It treated me very well. I never knew you were Cardrunners faarcyde lol Guess I should have known that You have intimidated me into folding this post raton fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 00:26
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Imaduck posted:Thanks faarcyde, that's really interesting! I live in Detroit..from 2012-2015 I rented an apartment in Windsor so I could play on Stars and Full Tilt. I commuted back and forth, it was about a 25 minute drive depending on tunnel traffic. I have geography run good.
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Jun 9, 2016 03:38
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faarcyde posted:I live in Detroit..from 2012-2015 I rented an apartment in Windsor so I could play on Stars and Full Tilt. I commuted back and forth, it was about a 25 minute drive depending on tunnel traffic. I have geography run good. I had never before considered this angle for some reason I suppose there are also a bunch of American pros in San Diego who commute for work into Mexico Hm.
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Jun 9, 2016 04:14
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Sheep-Goats posted:I had never before considered this angle for some reason That doesn't work because it can take 2-3 hours to get back into the country form Mexico. Usually only takes 10 minutes in Windsor/Detroit, on a bad day maybe 30.
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Jun 9, 2016 05:33
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faarcyde posted:That doesn't work because it can take 2-3 hours to get back into the country form Mexico. Usually only takes 10 minutes in Windsor/Detroit, on a bad day maybe 30. Oh okay. Is it specifically Windosor/Detroit or is this kind of a US/Canada border thing? It'd be weird if there was a large community of online poker pros in Detroit for the sake of one workable border there.
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Jun 9, 2016 05:47
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Is Phil Helmuth as big of a twat as he comes off as or is it an act for TV? He's had some truly inspiring meltdowns in his time. I had the chance to meet Phil last year when he was in Pittsburgh for a tournament at the Rivers. It was pretty late that night, and he walked through the poker room chatting with the folks there. I was very impressed: he took the time to chat with everyone that wanted to talk with him, took pictures with everybody, and struck me as a really cool guy - even as people were fan-boying on him pretty drat hard. While I was shaking his hand, I told him that I had been waiting to ask him something. "Phil, a couple of years ago, I was living in Vegas. I'm driving over to Green Valley on 215, doing about 75, when I get buzzed by a Maserati like I'm absolutely standing still. License plate read "Poker Brat". You know anything about that?" He smiled, then went right into his poker face, looked me square in the eye, and said "I know nothing about that" with no expression at all. Then winked. Really nice guy.
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Jun 9, 2016 14:50
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Sheep-Goats posted:Oh okay. Is it specifically Windosor/Detroit or is this kind of a US/Canada border thing? It's not a major drug hub so the border is pretty efficient. You can sign up for an express lane that makes it a lot easier where you are pre-screened. There are a lot of people who do it..I know 4-5 acquaintances. 2+2 used to have a Windsor thread although it's been a while since I was involved over there.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:56
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Sheep-Goats posted:Here's an analysis of why it's such an absolutely terrible call: Thanks for pointing out this Youtube channel; it's great analysis! I especially enjoyed the one on that silly final hand in Casino Royale.
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Jun 12, 2016 23:52
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Imaduck posted:The most common bluffs - semi-bluffs - usually have some outs to improve as well; meaning even if your opponent decides to call your bluff, you still have a chance of making a better hand than them. The "I'm just going to pretend my cards are good and push you out of the pot with lots of chips" type of bluff is relatively rare in Poker, and really requires you understanding your opponents and when they're going to fold. Blindly shoving your chips in the pot to boss people around is a nice way to lose money really quick at the Poker table. I find being really irritating as a good way to bluff. Like mentioning to people at the table when you catch yourself in a tell. Like "Hey, I just noticed that I fan my cards differently when I have a so-so hand." Talk tons of poo poo all the time. My brother in law likes to call out the cards that are in play in community games to make it seem like he can truly count cards. He can't, but it puts people on edge. I like to call out things like "third card down is the 3 of clubs" because I'll see them as I shuffle. I then have someone else cut the cards and even ask that they re shuffle if they're concerned. I never, ever, cheat. I just want them to concentrate on making sure I don't cheat instead of thinking about the game. Make it seem like I'm magically controlling the deck. Then you can bluff because they're so frustrated that they've turned into Helmuth and aren't paying attention any more. Just yelling and rambling on about bad beats.
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Jun 13, 2016 18:41
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mostlygray posted:I find being really irritating as a good way to bluff. Like mentioning to people at the table when you catch yourself in a tell. Like "Hey, I just noticed that I fan my cards differently when I have a so-so hand." Talk tons of poo poo all the time. My brother in law likes to call out the cards that are in play in community games to make it seem like he can truly count cards. He can't, but it puts people on edge. I like to call out things like "third card down is the 3 of clubs" because I'll see them as I shuffle. I then have someone else cut the cards and even ask that they re shuffle if they're concerned. I never, ever, cheat. I just want them to concentrate on making sure I don't cheat instead of thinking about the game. Make it seem like I'm magically controlling the deck. Wow, that's a very good strategy.
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Jun 13, 2016 22:56
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mostlygray posted:I find being really irritating as a good way to bluff. Like mentioning to people at the table when you catch yourself in a tell. Like "Hey, I just noticed that I fan my cards differently when I have a so-so hand." Talk tons of poo poo all the time. My brother in law likes to call out the cards that are in play in community games to make it seem like he can truly count cards. He can't, but it puts people on edge. I like to call out things like "third card down is the 3 of clubs" because I'll see them as I shuffle. I then have someone else cut the cards and even ask that they re shuffle if they're concerned. I never, ever, cheat. I just want them to concentrate on making sure I don't cheat instead of thinking about the game. Make it seem like I'm magically controlling the deck. First troll post itt imo
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Jun 13, 2016 23:56
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How do real poker players feel about video poker?
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Jun 14, 2016 06:16
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How do I play against donks or players that'll endlessly call? Do I just play my connectors / suited cards harder?
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Jun 14, 2016 07:25
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Tab8715 posted:How do I play against donks or players that'll endlessly call? Do I just play my connectors / suited cards harder? When you have a good hand, you raise. When you have a bad hand, you fold. People who call anything are so easy to take money from that what you do in the occasional marginal situation is not all that important.
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Jun 14, 2016 07:54
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Tab8715 posted:How do I play against donks or players that'll endlessly call? Do I just play my connectors / suited cards harder? Evaluate how well your hand is doing vs their range of hands and make bets/calls/folds so that they can call with worse ranges or so that will fold better ranges, or, if you don't have a profitable option in your position, fold. In general in those games value hands go up in value, bluffs go down. Average winning hands by the river in multiway pots are always bigger than they are head's up, so pay more attention to multiway examples from books/forums/videos. The biggest mistake (monetarily) a tryhard usually makes at a table of bad players is playing a TPTK type of hand against four foes like he's only against one because 80% of the hand examples from the books he's read are heads up hands. If you have a tight image and are second to act, being the preflop raise, and you bet when there's an ace on the board and get two calls at least one of those people is not calling with second pair. In short, HU, you play like you've been told you're supposed to. Multiway you're probably not a good player yet and need to think about each action more, really consider what each person's range is relative to what he thinks your ranges are, not just combos and "TPTK is stonk so" kinda stuff. It's very important to remember that everyone at the table is trying to make money in their own way. If they're donks and they keep calling either a) they think they can make enough by hitting their kicker, trips (five out draw) or their draw (8 or 9 outs) on you that calling is worth it (and often they're right in live games as people for some reason often bet around half pot on a two flush board and then get mad when their opponent calls with a flush draw and an overcard and hits his overcard), b) they think you're too aggressive and always bet the flop after raising so maybe their pair is good if you don't bet again/if the board stays free of A/K/Q) or c) they have some emotional investment in the pot. Figure that poo poo out. That's the one of the fun parts of poker. The answer is to play poker. You want the formula from 2005 back when no one knew what they were doing? You set mine and get it in, or you get top two pair and get it in, and once in a while you catch a lucky straight or flush and get it in, or your set gets bigger and you get it in. Otherwise you bet one street postflop and check it down afterward. The grinders would sit around being rocks like this and hammer the fish. The most important thing though is to be nice to these people. Maybe they're new, maybe they're learning, maybe they read a post I made online and I told them it'd be fun and for now they're having some fun. Poker players always benefit from the game growing, it isn't even a predatory thing. So find out their name, tell them a joke, don't be a oval office. If you bust them don't say sorry or patronize them, respect their courage at least even if they're not good at poker. raton fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 10:28
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Mortley posted:How do real poker players feel about video poker? Some of them play particular machines in order to get into a better comp tier at a casino. They all recognize that certain machines have a 20% edge and they shouldn't touch them so they hunt for particular machines with good rules or for comp promotions (some off-strip casinos in Vegas will have a night of the week where you get 5 times the normal comp points per spin or something) or where the progressive jackpots have gotten high enough to maybe make the machine 0 EV (or maybe even +EV). I would go on Tuesday to hang out with one of my poker friends in Vegas sometimes. Tuesday was the unofficial poker player's day off there because that was the day with the lowest tourist traffic in general, also it was more likely the people you knew who worked in cardrooms or casinos had that day off because of lighter scheduling. He would hunt for high progressive jackpots and stuff hundreds into the machine until he managed to bink them. Sometimes it went quick, sometimes it took hours and he went through considerably more than the progressive was worth -- it's no fun being 3k in on a 1700 progressive. If that happened we'd go to the comp office and tell them that, then they'd scan his card to confirm his action and give him a 300 dollar meal comp for the next day and he'd invite out six or seven other guys and we'd show up to these fairly nice in-casino restaurants and eat like pigs while dressed like pigs and talking about videogames while the next table over was dressed up Europeans trying to live the life on their holiday. This also kept his comp rate high on his card so he always had tickets to the shows and a free suite once in a while for someone coming in from out of town etc. There used to be +EV video poker machines back in the day but those are long gone now, even off the strip. Any real poker player that's on a machine is doing it for recreation, to grind comps, or sometimes just to figure out the machine if it has some kind of interesting gimmick. No one likes them flat out for what they are. If learning which machines are better than others and stuff like when you should draw to quads instead of holding a full house or whatever is interesting to you it can be an okay hobby. Wizard of odds dot com will guide you on that path. The vast majority of poker players however never touch the machines (unless they're with or trying to get with a girl) and don't think about them.
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Jun 14, 2016 10:48
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:57 |
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Like many I dabbled in poker 10-12 years ago. I think it was reading 2+2 that put me off it for good though. Reading accounts of people much better than I was at the time talk about their online BB/hour rates while grinding out 6-8 1/2 or 3/6 tables at Party or Stars made me realize that it was way too much like work to be any fun and that the real expected payout for maybe 90% of them wasn't any better than having a only half decent profession.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:48
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