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Absurd Alhazred posted:I want you to read this argument back to yourself. You are basically repeating the Libertarian fallacy of presupposing the rationality and goodness of the actors in charge of economic decisions and adapting reality to fit with it. This is a bizarre way to criticise HorseLord's response and only really works if you want to discredit him by ad hominem (lolbertarians!!) on the expectation that everyone else will side with you because it's HorseLord they're arguing against. There are more sensible ways to criticise his argument but this is just a drive-by shitpost. e: Lichy posted:
See this is an actual counter-argument and cuts to the heart of the issue.
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Jun 13, 2016 00:10
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Lichy posted:http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/satire I'm assuming during Comrade Krushchev's Thaw?
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Jun 13, 2016 00:15
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JeffersonClay posted:"Your ideology is half-baked because it relies on patently false assumptions about human behavior" is actually a good and relevant argument here. Except that the actual criticism isn't based upon 'human behaviour' and the homo economicus but on the reality of how factories deal with unrealistic quotas. Even using my previous sentence alone would have been a valid argument but instead he used a reliance on rear end-kissing back-up like yourself in lieu of making the actual argument.
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Jun 13, 2016 01:14
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I am sorry I made a lovely argument in D&D. I should be setting a better example. That's pretty much my point - despite our disagreements at times I don't dislike you as a poster. That said, as a mod you should reign in the drive-bys. Funny though they can be... well let's not encourage them! 
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Jun 13, 2016 01:21
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HorseLord posted:And then you appeal to anticommunist Russians as if that's an argument winner, when in reality it's just as easy to find a pro communist Russian. Which is why the second most popular Russian political party to date is a Communist party. I'd actually forgotten about this - and checking on the current make-up of the State Duma has all opposition parties being ardent socialists, although the Liberal Democratic Party seem to mostly be using that as a crutch for a kind of national socialism (hmm that seems familiar). Certainly of the Russians I know, they about half break for anti-Communist or pro-Communist. My mate's wife comes from a Tatar community where they all have giant pictures of Lenin in their living rooms which you are forbidden to show disrespect to. I guess that's a tangent from anti-Imperialism, but I suppose that it's hard to argue about it right now since a lot of defences of 'anti-Imperialist' states seems mostly about defending expansionist nationalism. So to try a different tack, I was wondering what the thread's views on Kashmir is? What would an imperialist or anti-imperialist solution be to you?
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Jun 13, 2016 14:00
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Typo posted:Chinese nationalists scares the poo poo out of me because whereas US fights enough wars so its people remember how bad they are China hasn't fought a real actual war lasting more than a few weeks since Korea. So they have no idea how bad war actually gets and they are perfectly willing to throw away 1 million people to get revenge on japan or to conquer taiwan or something. From what I've learned of the those in the know on Asian affairs, China are aware they'd have their arse handed to them if they went any farther than a sea battle in close proximity to their mainland, so a fight with Japan is off the cards, and frankly they already basically run Taiwan anyway so despite the victories of the independence movement in the latest elections... ehhh, the status quo is going to remain. Not to say preparing to prevent Chinese overreach isn't a sensible strategy, just that their armoury is apparently visibly rusty as it stands.
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Jun 14, 2016 00:02
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Having an army full of near-useless conscripts and old Soviet garbage didn't stop Saddam. And he was unsuccessful in those conflicts, partially due to intervention of the wider world (and partially due to his lovely army). Not to say that China is 100% harmless but they have a much less machismo-led government. I'd be relatively happy to consider them low-threat in the current circumstances. Feel free to quote me here in 12 months time during the Sino-Asia-American War but I'm reasonably confident as it stands.
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Jun 14, 2016 00:30
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It does raise the question of why China is allowed to bully Taiwan like this if it's supposedly 'anti-Imperialist.' I can understand not wanting Taiwan to succumb to the 'Western pigdog' or whatever, but given that the independence movement is from Taiwanese nationals sick of having mainlanders tell them what to do? I mean I'm a little biased because I'm a supporter of Taiwan's NPP.
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Jun 14, 2016 00:54
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asdf32 posted:Nukes help too. India and Pakistan have gone to war while being nuclear states. It's almost like countries can be sensible about M.A.D. I mean I even raised this point just today! About border disputes! I'm glad no-one replies. > : (
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Jun 14, 2016 01:44
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Volcott posted:Thank you for your service. Likewise! I like your posts.
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Jun 14, 2016 01:55
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Typo posted:the last time there was a poll more Taiwanese wanted to be 51st state than to be a Chinese province That's how I figured. A bit worrying that they think America would take them nicely (hello Saipan  ) but I could definitely understand rejecting mainland ownership.
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Jun 14, 2016 02:00
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Kavros posted:Even if you are unwilling to take up the question as asked, perhaps homework explainer will. I can ask a different question of you, specifically: which do you think is a better governing policy or ethos: democracy or juche? Are the two necessarily incompatible? Kim Il-Sung's philosophy of self-reliance wasn't bad itself, more his cult of personality, brutal suppression of dissidents and bizarre idea to cut Korea off from the world before actually becoming self-reliant. I think it's perfectly possible to have a juche democracy, even if NK really isn't an example of it.
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Jun 14, 2016 14:53
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gobbagool posted:Why is it that you warmed over 70s era communists keep acting like you've won some kind of argument? When is the last time communists or communism were right about anything important? "anything important" says someone who probably considered the 2008 financial crisis as being a completely unpreventable but mild mishap.
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Jun 14, 2016 21:25
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Wait Brainiac Five were you a member of the Red Fraction?
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Jun 14, 2016 21:28
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JeffersonClay posted:I think if you stretch the definition of imperialism to include supporting weaker, democratic nations ...the nation where America arbitrarily suspended and placed the communists on trial while the pro-American MPs could vote in a unilaterally-favourable-to-the-US trade deal? The Philippines is really not a go-to example to show America spreading democracy.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:34
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JeffersonClay posted:The US did a bad thing 70 years ago. Did they brainwash 92% of Filipinos too? My claim wasn't about spreading democracy, it was about protecting extant democracies from outside threats. Which, by the way, is exactly what the US is doing when it accepts the Philippines' offer to move back into the military bases we abandoned at their request in the 90's. Right, but you could see how a country with a strong arm in the country's affairs could shape perceptions? I'm not saying "America brainwashed 92% of Filipinos" but that America is more likely to have a positive propaganda campaign than the country that's (quite rightfully) not in control of the Philippines. This is more a call for scepticism than an outright claim that America has a gun to the country's head.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:48
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Fojar38 posted:No it isn't. So America is a socialist state now because it has Medicaid and food stamps? Welfare states have nothing to do with the economic policy of socialism. They can and should overlap, but it's not a requirement.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:52
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JeffersonClay posted:Do I think it's because 92% of Filipinos love the US military hanging around? No. I think it's because 92% of Filipinos see China as a massive threat and view the US as their most significant ally. This half-baked propaganda theorycrafting is pretty pathetic. That's fine, I just was getting the impression you were implying the Philippines just loved America out of the blue from the way you phrased your prior post. If you're just talking "vs. China" then I agree. Jose posted:I don't think the people would be permanently ingesting heavy metals if they controlled any of the food production That would be communism more than anything.  I'm not saying China is a socialist country but there's a Marxist-Leninist argument for maintaining capitalism for the benefit of national development. Hell, Marx was pretty big on capitalism despite all the dipshit right-wingers who act like he was anti-capitalist to the last.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:58
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Fojar38 posted:I absolutely defend the USA allowing democracy to flourish in Japan, a country that it was once mortal enemies with. The Japanese people are pleased with it too and are great friends of the United States of America according to every poll taken there. Being fair they also kept child porn legal until recent years.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:09
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Typo posted:One of the problems of the far left is that they are still running cold war era Moscow party line where the US is always evil Uhhh, a) the Soviets themselves decried the far-left as people getting distracted over trivial matters b) while some posters in this thread *makes neck motions* are putting it as "US BAD", I have actually tried to bring up non-pariah state anti-Imperialist discussions I don't think Imperialism is unique to the United States, I don't think it's impossible from any country. I think discussing American Imperialism from a perspective of various competing Imperialist blocs is a better idea and one where the US might indeed be the better of two sides. But this thread is basically people yelling "COMMUNIST" and "CAPITALIST" at each other as it stands.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:13
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Fojar38 posted:People keep calling the USA imperialist when I get the sense that if you pretzel the logic enough any action that influences another country in some way could be construed as "imperialist" if you want it to. Probably, but if you want to argue semantics then any discussion will be buried under an entire empire of pedantry. There is a dictionary definition I guess http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/imperialism But like you say, pretzel logic.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:19
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Patrick Spens posted:This could be interesting, but two is too few. In e.g. Syria there are at least three, maybe four power blocs. Hah, yes really - that's a classic example of Iranian Imperialism, Saudi Imperialism, Russian Imperialism, American Imperialism, Wahhabist Imperialism, heck even Kurdish Imperialism and Turkish Imperialism at this point... it's a whirlwind. It's fascinating in that regard, despite being more importantly horrifying in a humanitarian regard.  This is why I said this thread should be rebooted without the baggage of the first post.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:28
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Patrick Spens posted:What would that look like? Hopefully one where one can discuss geopolitics in a more holistic way than the other threads which are more localised. Frankly I hadn't thought about it until I saw how quickly this thread burst into flames.
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Jun 14, 2016 23:41
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Patrick Spens posted:That could be interesting, I'm just not sure D&D can discuss more abstract issues without it turning into a shouting match. Yeah, that's why I've not been able to come up with a successful way to bring such a thread into existence. Was kinda hopeful for this one...
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Jun 15, 2016 00:06
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Homework Explainer posted:Despite some impressive derails, I think there's been some all right discussion. I knew drive-bys would happen. Being fair this thread has interesting discussions, it's just not quite the holistic one I was thinking of. Doesn't mean it isn't a thread I'm still reading!
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Jun 15, 2016 00:08
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Kavros posted:The second your ideology starts having to excuse the mass imprisonment of the people inside its borders, because the people want to escape and you need to stop them by force or the entire system will assuredly implode, it has already failed. I'm not even backing Homework Explainer here, but this kind of comment just makes me remember how many people the US jails for smoking the wrong kind of vegetation. The economy may not depend on it, but it sure as hell benefits from it to a ridiculous degree.
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Aug 12, 2016 01:17
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gobbagool posted:Yeah that's exactly like a whole country being imprisoned. Clearly by noting a failure of 'justice' in the United States I have therefore said every other country in history has only ever been moral and never done anything wrong.
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Aug 12, 2016 01:47
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Jewel Repetition posted:God this is so bad it makes me want to side with HW. ...Bush?
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Aug 12, 2016 09:43
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