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Timeless Appeal posted:Don't even know where I stand on depictions of Africa.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:23
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FilthyImp posted:There's some nice script dissonance between the giant worldwide "We kicked their space-asses and ushered in a new era of global peace" vs. "we fought a costly guerilla land war for the better part of a decade that left the region destabilized" that they stumble into in Africaland. The very weird thing about the film that makes it a prequel to Starship Troopers is Dr. Data's line about not being so primitive after all. Technology and progress in the film is being completely measured in terms of force. Outside of the galactic senate that is Washington DC, there is not real indication of technological advances besides colonization and the ability to blow poo poo up. There is not hint that the average person's life in terms of things like education, medicine, and transportation has really changed. We just made our own city destroying laser and put it on the moon. The natural conclusion for all of this should essentially be Starship Troopers universe with Humans being as bad if not worse than the Aliens. The original Independence Day is functionally a remake of War of the Worlds, an anti-imperialistic novel. Resurgence is all about the values of imperialism. That's why the aliens elect as King loving Badass. We're the ones who are almost as bad as the invaders that we can kill them for good.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:49
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Timeless Appeal posted:Went in with low expectations for an Independence Day sequel and walked out with a pretty okay Starship Troopers prequel. The will smith portrait was amazing and does not get enough credit.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:53
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Timeless Appeal posted:But it's not even Africa. The stretch of America we see the kids traveling across looks like it's stuck in 1993. Like why the gently caress are cars still using gasoline? The flashes of people listening to the radio all over the world aren't too different from the first movie. Well to be fair it's not like their world mentality doesn't make sense - humanity almost got wiped out by a hostile alien force and there's strong reason to believe they could come back at a moment's notice and finish the job. That sort of existential tension is likely going to derail humanity's priorities for the foreseeable future. What good is fusion-powered hovercars and space-medicine if we can't defend the planet against genocidal invaders?
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Jul 1, 2016 21:02
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Xenomrph posted:Well to be fair it's not like their world mentality doesn't make sense - humanity almost got wiped out by a hostile alien force and there's strong reason to believe they could come back at a moment's notice and finish the job. That sort of existential tension is likely going to derail humanity's priorities for the foreseeable future. What good is fusion-powered hovercars and space-medicine if we can't defend the planet against genocidal invaders? My issue is that the alien lifeform that has transcended being declares us King of the Universe because we're good at killing things with Dr. Data smugly refuting the earlier comment on us being primitive because we're good at killing things. There is absolutely no indication that we're not a primitive species outside of being very good at figuring out how to kill other things. EDIT: It's made weirder by the fact that the giant ball is reminiscent of Gort. It's a complete flip on The Day the Earth Stood Still with the peaceful aliens inviting humanity to space to blow poo poo up. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 21:20
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Timeless Appeal posted:That's fine, and I'm not against Project gently caress Off Laser. Eh, I hope I'm not coming off like I'm trying to shut down discussion but I really do think it's mostly a pithy comeback line. "Primitive, eh? Well, we just foiled the aliens a second time, how about them apples?" It should be noted that the humans don't defeat the aliens here through superior weaponry, but through teamwork, sacrifice and grit (the aliens may be capable of the first and maybe the second, but they haven't shown to do much of the third: so much of the alien operations shut down and retreat after a queen is killed, but the humans persevere despite their leaders being taken out).
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Jul 1, 2016 21:36
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I simply figured the alien tech was still too expensive and impractical to work its way into mundane civilian applications but governments decided it was worth it for military applications.
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Jul 2, 2016 03:12
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The sort-of-future setting is a tricky one to work with. If things are too futuristic then it becomes a movie about people who aren't Us, bleeding away its impact. But if its not futuristic enough, then the audience will start asking why half the planets cities exploding doesn't seem to have affected things at all. I'm not sure they pulled it off.
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Jul 2, 2016 05:48
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I'd argue the problem is that the American Southwest isn't even not-futuristic, but not-modern. And there is also that weird issue of inclusion where it's said that people have lived in peace for the last twenty years despite there being a ground war in Africa and African warlords. I know that the line I'm referencing is meant to be a pithy comeback, but it's one that the aliens agree with. Like I said, it's a reversal of The Day the Earth Stood Still where humanity is tested not on our ability to be peaceful, but our ability to kill and our not just allowed to join the galactic community but become the president of it because of our ability to kill. It's not that I disagree with the notion of humans to defend themselves. I just question us being promoted to the kings of the universe because how talented we are as fighters.
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Jul 2, 2016 13:22
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Timeless Appeal posted:I'd argue the problem is that the American Southwest isn't even not-futuristic, but not-modern. And there is also that weird issue of inclusion where it's said that people have lived in peace for the last twenty years despite there being a ground war in Africa and African warlords. Are you being ironic? Are you doing that thing where you talk about real life incredulously but are pretending to be talking about a movie?
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Jul 2, 2016 16:09
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Timeless Appeal posted:And there is also that weird issue of inclusion where it's said that people have lived in peace for the last twenty years despite there being a ground war in Africa and African warlords. This bothered me too, but I believe the wording was "no armed conflicts" or something, which could either mean A) yeah there are still assholes with guns but they don't actually fight over things or B) there haven't been any wars involving first-world countries invading each other or weaker countries, which is the more probable intended read.
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Jul 2, 2016 20:21
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precision posted:This bothered me too, but I believe the wording was "no armed conflicts" or something, which could either mean A) yeah there are still assholes with guns but they don't actually fight over things or B) there haven't been any wars involving first-world countries invading each other or weaker countries, which is the more probable intended read. The prequel book explains the whole Umbutu thing a bit - once they realize they've got an intact alien ship inside their borders, they seal themselves off and get embroiled in a ground war with the surviving aliens, which ends up being a much bigger boondoggle than they anticipated. They continuously turn away foreign aid, diplomats, and reporters (under the logic that they can handle it themselves, and in doing so would have sole claim to the alien ship inside their borders) so the outside world doesn't really know what's going on in Umbutu until just before the events of the second movie, when the warlord gets assassinated and his son (Dikembe) takes over and immediately opens Umbutu's borders back up.
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Jul 2, 2016 22:26
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precision posted:This bothered me too, but I believe the wording was "no armed conflicts" or something, which could either mean A) yeah there are still assholes with guns but they don't actually fight over things or B) there haven't been any wars involving first-world countries invading each other or weaker countries, which is the more probable intended read. The Africans were fighting a ground war with the aliens who were left over on the ship that landed in 96.
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Jul 3, 2016 02:54
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The more time that passes the angrier I am that I paid to see this.
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Jul 3, 2016 02:56
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Wandle Cax posted:The Africans were fighting a ground war with the aliens who were left over on the ship that landed in 96. This bugged me. All the aliens in Area 51 went catatonic when the first queen died, but a whole bunch apparently stayed up and fine in Africa.
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Jul 3, 2016 03:16
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Cythereal posted:This bugged me. All the aliens in Area 51 went catatonic when the first queen died, but a whole bunch apparently stayed up and fine in Africa. There's lazy poo poo like this throughout the whole movie. Like them being some kind of hive mind yet still needing to commandeer our satellites to coordinate the strike...
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Jul 3, 2016 03:53
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Why did the queen have a mouth when none of the other aliens did. Absolutely nothing in this movie makes any sense in relation to the previous film.
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Jul 3, 2016 04:39
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Xenomrph posted:Or no human on human violence (which is kinda covered by your option A). I thought this was pretty obvious. The script could certainly have used more finesse concerning this point, but yeesh you guys. Timeless Appeal posted:I'd argue the problem is that the American Southwest isn't even not-futuristic, but not-modern. Honestly, I'm not even sure what you're talking about. You mentioned earlier the world looks "stuck in 1993" but, uh, most of the world doesn't look that much different than it did in 1993. Why would you expect cars not to use gasoline? And I thought it was pretty clear that people were using radios because Earth's satellites had been taken out and much of the world's digital communications infrastructure had been compromised. Timeless Appeal posted:I know that the line I'm referencing is meant to be a pithy comeback, but it's one that the aliens agree with. Like I said, it's a reversal of The Day the Earth Stood Still where humanity is tested not on our ability to be peaceful, but our ability to kill and our not just allowed to join the galactic community but become the president of it because of our ability to kill. I didn't at all get the impression humanity was being declared "kings of the universe", they were being invited to join (possibly lead?) an interstellar resistance movement against the hostile alien aggressors. Valuing someone's ability to kill things makes sense if you're recruiting for a military coalition. If this is imperialist it's not any more so than, say, America joining the Allies in WWII or something. If you're really jonesing for ways to find the movie problematic on a social level, you could probably try the angle that making humans exceptional in some way is racist by proxy (I've always had a hard time buying that, but the sentiment is out there), or that the movie kind of presumes that western liberal values like plucky optimism are endemic to the human spirit or something.
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Jul 3, 2016 04:48
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The city destroying laser cannons don't seem near as powerful as the first ones did, or at least didn't seem/look that way. In the first movie the first time we see that one building (with all the hippie sign holding people) it's epic as all poo poo, then there's a BIG rear end shockwave created that rolls on for a while. In the second movie they are almost standard pew pew lasers with no real ummmph. Sure I understand if one of those hits shields it won't be that powerful, but even then the charging of the weapon should look a lot more badass than it did. I also think the movie did too much alien tech for 20 years and it made it feel a little too distant. I would have like to have seen some more conventional earth style poo poo just outfitted with antigravity whatever and laser beams. The hyper streamlined fighters were cool but that seems like it would take a lot of manufacturing resources/ability. -- Look at this poo poo, that was a city with skyscrapers and poo poo completely leveled and owned: 
Tyson Tomko fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 04:49
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Tyson Tomko posted:The city destroying laser cannons don't seem near as powerful as the first ones did, or at least didn't seem/look that way. In the first movie the first time we see that one building (with all the hippie sign holding people) it's epic as all poo poo, then there's a BIG rear end shockwave created that rolls on for a while. In the second movie they are almost standard pew pew lasers with no real ummmph. The city killers in the first movie were much, much bigger than the cannons used in this movie. Looked like the same technology, just on a smaller scale.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:06
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Tyson Tomko posted:
CelticPredator fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 05:07
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Cythereal posted:The city killers in the first movie were much, much bigger than the cannons used in this movie. Looked like the same technology, just on a smaller scale. The one in space was pretty large and in charge but yeah you're exactly right about the smaller ones on land.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:13
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Cythereal posted:This bugged me. All the aliens in Area 51 went catatonic when the first queen died, but a whole bunch apparently stayed up and fine in Africa. Also didn't they still have to blow up the ship that was trying to destroy Area 51?
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Jul 3, 2016 05:21
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They still had to blow up all the ships didn't they, the mothership blowing up just made all the shields go down if i'm remembering right.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:40
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Wandle Cax posted:They still had to blow up all the ships didn't they, the mothership blowing up just made all the shields go down if i'm remembering right. So those were just drone ships? That seems stupid why even bother sending aliens? They could of just send more drones.
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Jul 3, 2016 07:02
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Wandle Cax posted:They still had to blow up all the ships didn't they, the mothership blowing up just made all the shields go down if i'm remembering right. That's correct. Heck the original plan was to merely put a computer virus in the mothership and then bug out after the shields went down, with the big bomb as a backup suicide option if Plan A didn't work.
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Jul 3, 2016 07:03
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Cythereal posted:This bugged me. All the aliens in Area 51 went catatonic when the first queen died, but a whole bunch apparently stayed up and fine in Africa. I assume that that the ones that were catatonic were inside the city destroyers that were taken out and their injuries and lack of queen is what put them catatonic. The ones in Africa landed and never underwent that trauma.
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Jul 3, 2016 09:46
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OptimusShr posted:I assume that that the ones that were catatonic were inside the city destroyers that were taken out and their injuries and lack of queen is what put them catatonic. The ones in Africa landed and never underwent that trauma. Eh, I'm just going with Resurgence being a poorly written movie that doesn't jive well with the first.
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Jul 3, 2016 15:22
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Well my take on it is this. There was no way to make a sequel to ID4, yes humanity survived but I think it would have lead to mad max, last ship territory, the loss of major cities, government leaderships. It would take generations for us to recover from such a thing. ID4 is really a one off movie, or if you try to expanded the universe you can t just a repeat of aliens come and blow poo poo up, I saw a you tube video where people talk about the failed fantastic 4 movie. How the original scrip was, one dude made a point that if you do a time skip over something that sounds like a more interesting part of the movie than maybe your telling the wrong story. The land last surviving alien ship in africa is a much more interesting story. The sphere...okay have the sphere do its evacuation thing and then have humanity start fighting the aliens (did they ever get a name)? The reason for wanting a molten core is honestly a good reason to gently caress up earth, other than maybe they wanted to colonize the planet after killing us.
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Jul 3, 2016 17:31
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max4me posted:one dude made a point that if you do a time skip over something that sounds like a more interesting part of the movie than maybe your telling the wrong story. That's a very strange conclusion since a lot of the time something is interesting because it's not elaborated on.
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Jul 3, 2016 17:43
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THORIUM posted:The same one as you. Your statement is actually spot-on. The universe is pretty crazy. I can understand your confusion here but that article's saying the planets' internal compositions aren't differentiated, in other words the elements that would normally separate into a defined mantle and the core instead remain mixed and homogeneous all the way through. They don't have empty spaces in the middle where a core would be, that's physically impossible. Aliens vacuuming out the inner third of the Earth's mass would be real drat bad in an immediate way.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:00
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The first movie was dumb charming fun, this one was garbage on almost every conceivable level. Did they even hire an editor?
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Jul 3, 2016 19:40
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Yeah, I've seen worse 'mindless scholcky films' but the firt one was still the better summer blockbuster. Just curious where they'll take the third one, if they get a chance to make it.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:59
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Turning ID4 into a franchise was 20th Century Fox's answer to losing Star Wars. Resurgence is the bridge film to a futuristic pew pew "space wars" setting with humans and the advanced alien technology.
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Jul 3, 2016 23:57
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clown shoes posted:Turning ID4 into a franchise was 20th Century Fox's answer to losing Star Wars. Resurgence is the bridge film to a futuristic pew pew "space wars" setting with humans and the advanced alien technology. They are going to change the name right? I can't believe everything important in this universe will happen on independance day.
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Jul 4, 2016 01:34
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Tenzarin posted:They are going to change the name right? I can't believe everything important in this universe will happen on independance day. That would involve a future film actually being made. Clearly nobody is interested in this "franchise."
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Jul 4, 2016 01:38
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Rhyno posted:That would involve a future film actually being made. Clearly nobody is interested in this "franchise." Well when the queen was rampaging and shooting down airplanes while missing a school bus, I got a real strong Warhammer 40k vibe. It was pretty drat cool but it felt so out of place in this movie.
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Jul 4, 2016 01:46
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Rhyno posted:That would involve a future film actually being made. Clearly nobody is interested in this "franchise." Nobody in the United States, sure, but worldwide revenues might be enough to convince them to make another. It's not like Hollywood hates making sequels. What I want to know is where's my darn Mars Attacks 2???
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Jul 4, 2016 04:43
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I'm sure it'll do well in China, because there were two Chinese protagonists doing heroic things while also being Chinese
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Jul 4, 2016 04:45
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I just saw the Master Pancake showing of this (Think Rifftrax Live), and I'm so glad I didn't pay to see it in its original state, because it would have been impossible to sit through. The movie is vastly improved with Kenny Loggins over various scenes.
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Jul 4, 2016 04:48
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