Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce

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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed.
Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce	44	21.36%
ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress	19	9.22%
Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin	9	4.37%
Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country	14	6.80%
ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit	8	3.88%
Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died	24	11.65%
Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country	14	6.80%
ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread	17	8.25%
ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter	15	7.28%
ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming	2	0.97%
Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy	10	4.85%
ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union	5	2.43%
ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die	25	12.14%
Total:	206 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Coohoolin posted:

Well there was the malaria and the general shittiness of the location chosen but that could have been remedied had a specific supply chain not been hosed with, is my understanding.

Happily open to reading better analyses, in any case.

It's not that I expect a bibliography or anything, but just a sense that you've looked beyond nationalist-bloggers' historical hot takes would be nice - and ditto for thinking that quoting some spin on "bought and sold for English gold" suffices as an argument. I mean, honestly, even just going "X is largely the reason for [historical event]" is problematic enough in any context and should give you pause for thought, let alone when it's all a counterfactual "if X hadn't happened then Y definitely would have," but here you go:

Davidson, Neil, Discovering the Scottish Revolution, 1692-1742 (2003)
Walsh, Patrick, 'The Bubble on the Periphary,' The Scottish Historical Review, Volume 91 Issue 1, Page 106-124 (Mar 2012)
Watt, Douglas, The Price of Scotland: Darien, Union and the Wealth of Nations (2007)
Whyte, Ian D, Scotland Before the Industrial Revolution: An Economic and Social History, c.1050-1750 (1995)

# ¿ Feb 5, 2018 00:49

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 14:39

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Interesting story in the guardian today, although I think the important aspects are being underplayed here. While I'm not mad keen on the idea of deals with the USAF and Trump Turnberry (and agree there's an element of hypocrisy going on), far worse is the massive and continuing losses incurred.

The excuse offered that the Scottish government don't involve themselves in business decisions doesn't explain away responsibility for the huge subsidies it's getting: more than twice the original estimate (and counting). It's incompetent, and that needs to be hammered home. Many people who claim not to be snp die hards pivoted remarkably quickly from "snp are the most left wing" to "snp are the most competent," and while i don't expect nationalist activists to ever look beyond voting snp, the narrative really needs to be challenged.

Unfortunately, both the politicians quoted (Jackie Baillie, thread heartthrob Patrick Harvie) focus exclusively on the Trump connection, and while that makes an easy headline it obscures the real meat, and is easily dismissed

The Guardian posted:

Scottish government criticised over US military use of airport

SNP accused of hypocrisy for funding Glasgow Prestwick airport which has links to Trump

A publicly owned Scottish airport is being used by the US military to launch frontline operations and is striking deals with Donald Trump’s golf resort in an effort to stem its heavy financial losses.

An investigation by the Guardian has revealed Glasgow Prestwick airport is a base for live missions by the US Air Force, while its executives have highlighted its close relations with President Trump’s nearby resort at Turnberry to promote its bid to become a spaceport backed by the US government.

Scottish opposition politicians accused the ruling Scottish National party of “breathtaking hypocrisy” over its attitude to the Trump administration and asked whether the first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, had misled MSPs on the matter.

The coastal airport, 32 miles south of Glasgow, was bought for £1 by the Scottish government in November 2013, when Alex Salmond was first minister, to save it from closure. Between then and April 2017 the airport lost £26.5m as 500,000 civilian passengers a year went to rival airports.

It is eligible for another £7.7m in government loans this year to cover its continuing losses, which would take its total debts to the taxpayer to nearly £48m, plus interest. That is more than double the £21m ministers originally said would be needed to help return the airport to profit.

In an effort to stem its losses, Prestwick executives have attended military fairs across the US to pursue contracts to service cargo flights, troop transports and air-to-air refueling operations for the US Air Force, Marine Corps, Navy, National Guard and the US Defense Logistics Agency.

Official memos seen by the Guardian show Prestwick has won these contracts with the knowledge of Scottish government ministers, including Keith Brown, the economy secretary, both while Trump was the Republican presidential candidate and since he became president.

Scottish government officials sought to withhold details of many of the deals, heavily censoring documents it released under freedom of information legislation. But the USAF confirmed Prestwick was used to support frontline US military operations

...

The Scottish government insisted its ministers played no part in Prestwick’s business decisions, but opposition parties said ministers should make an urgent statement at Holyrood on what they know about Prestwick’s dealings with the US military, and the prospects of it ever making a profit.

...

# ¿ Feb 7, 2018 18:11

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Aramoro posted:

Government incompetence is sadly par for the course for Governments of all stripes, I mean we did build a Parliament for only 1000% over budget and no one went to jail for that. The narrative that the SNP are competent does need to be challenged, but then that would require an opposition that was competent as well. Like not taking any interest in what the airport is doing but continuing to subsidise it does seem negligent really though.

The thing is though, this isn't an infrastructure project akin to the parliament or any number of government IT overruns, and shouldn't be dismissed as the kind of budget sink that always happens. A better comparison would be East Coast (or even RBS and HBOS), since it's an operational sevice provision. The Scottish government said they'd spend £21m to get it back to profitability, but they've spent £48m and it's nowhere near a profit. That's a gently caress up by the responsible department (and ultimately the minister) that's being skated over.

This is without even getting into the merits or otherwise of the original decision (3 airports servicing the central belt seems pretty excessive, so I suspect there's some herculean assumptions in any economic impact or viability analyses done). They promised a profitable airport for £21m and didn't deliver, with no prospect of that happening. Their strategic goal and/or their appointments have been poorly managed, and, again, "are good managers" is what people are pushing as the SNP's key strength. With Prestwick, they appear to be chucking money at it in the hope something will change, rather than, say, rethinking the strategy or even winding it down slowly and funding alternative employment.

Saying "the opposition are incompetent because they're not good enough at pointing out the government's incompetency, and that's the real story" feels a bit like weak Comment Is Free :smuggo:

tbh, and, likethe Trump angle here, distracts from the thing that's not working.

[Edit: I should say that I agree with you about the opposition by the way - which is why I criticised Baillie and Harvie - but just that I think that's sorta missing the point, just as they missed the point]

Niric fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Feb 7, 2018

# ¿ Feb 7, 2018 19:15

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

This Twitter thread (from a journalist) on the way ScotGov handles FoI requests is really interesting:
https://twitter.com/MrMcEnaney/status/961293175531950081

In summary, there has been (and continues to be) a systematic politicisation of how FoI requests are handled, with SPADs being heavily involved in decision making as a matter of procedure. They have, explicitly, made decisions based on political factors ("what the minister would prefer"), and this is technically illegal under FoI rules. Further, this is effectively a matter of policy, since running everything by SPADs appears to be the system deliberately put in place by the Scottish Government.

Just to head of the inevitable whataboutery, yes, I suspect it's very similar at a UK level too, but that's not the point.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2018 14:11

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Cerv posted:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43078340

good solid socialism in action from scottish labour.

it'll be interesting to see how the SNP respond. although they're the opposition there it's very tight. they've as many councillors as the labour minority.

This is a really good policy, both in terms of utility and, more partisan, in terms of political optics. It's difficult to find anyone who disagrees with feeding kids (even most tories ), and the link between nutrition/eating habits and behaviour has some decent evidence behind it IIRC. Anecdotally, I know teachers and social workers who think similar schemes like breakfast clubs are fantastic, and get very irate about them being cut due to lack of funding

# ¿ Feb 16, 2018 21:10

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Jedit posted:

It's Labour councils trialling it, not SNP. The SNP only posted a motion in favour of it, but of course they said they could not do it while Scotland labours under the Hated English Yoke (TM).

Think you're misreading Coohoolin here; the harumphing is ironic (unless I'm way, way off)

# ¿ Feb 17, 2018 02:51

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Bit of good news: Hundreds of rough sleepers in Scotland to be offered homes. I've no idea how the Social Bite charity managed to get such a big profile, but they do great work, and housing first seems like an excellent idea. Purely anecdotally I've noticed a big jump in rough sleepers in glasgow and Edinburgh the last couple of years, and it can't just be coincidence that it maps to both the cuts to benefits (and roll out of UC) and huge cuts to council budgets that directly impact support services

# ¿ Feb 21, 2018 09:27

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Aramoro posted:

If you want a bit of background on Social Bite I can help a little, I've met Josh Littlejohn and my wife has worked with them. Basically Josh Littlejohn has a millionaire father, dicked around a bit, setting up the Scottish Business Awards and making the connection with Tom Hunter. Josh became a bit obsessed with Muhammad Yunus, the guy who developed micro-lending. After he brought him to Scotland to talk Josh and his girlfriend Alice sold everything including their house to put everything into Social Bite. The profile comes from the fact that Josh knows Tom Hunter, who was already working with Bill Clinton, George Clooney, Leonardo DiCaprio etc which is why you've seem them in and around Social Bite shops. He's passionate and committed and a great salesman so he can get people on board, and he's got the connections which means he gets to meet people to get them on board.

His salary is capped at 7 times his lowest paid employee as well which is a good model for any business.

Thanks, that's really interesting! Seems like a sound guy, could do with a lot more entrepreneurs like that

# ¿ Feb 21, 2018 17:44

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Coohoolin posted:

I'm on my way back from Glasgow where my bluegrass band played a gig in the Grand Ole Opry last night, and Jesus christ I'm still uneasy about it. It was all a bit cosplay-ish, with people in stetsons and prairie dresses and whatnot, and I guess the quickdraw competition was interesting (either special loud competition revolvers or actual revolvers loaded with blanks) but fuuuuckkk. After our three sets the venue had a ceremony where they raised a confederate flag and saluted it by firing guns in the air.

Wtf Govan.

The Grand Ole Opry is the weirdest place. But drinks are insanely cheap, plus there's bingo. It's also an odd mix of punters: a lot of students, stag/hen dos and people laughing at the whole thing, and then those who take it really, really seriously. Not been in a few years, but the quick draw and confederate flag stuff is a regular feature. It's bizarre, but an interesting night out

# ¿ Apr 8, 2018 16:17

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

forkboy84 posted:

https://twitter.com/newsundayherald/status/982730366992748544?s=19

Will be interesting to read this tomorrow but it sure sounds like Sturgeon's advisers want to make a rightwards turn so that hopefully leads to a ScotLab resurrection, ideally with less Blair McDougall and Jackie Baillie.

Sure hope SNP don't hold the central belt if they do intend tacking right (especially as they haven't been particularly lefty economically as it is) to win back Teuchter fishermen and farmers.

Unfortunately there's not an awful lot of detail in the full Herald story today, so it's hard to get a handle on this beyond a vague New Labourish vibe. Which might be the end result in a way, if this is less about substantial policy choices and more about signalling direction. The change of focus from Ireland/Norway makes sense from a tactical perspective though: I don't think anyone ever really bought the celtic tiger guff, and Scotland being the new Norway was always a ridiculous claim. Looking for a different model is understandable, and it works to the SNP's benefit that new Zealand is generally under the radar: no one is going to hear "the new Zealand model" and immediately think of neoliberalism. The intra-party tensions might be be mildly interesting and if it does genuinely lead to a substantial policy platform for an independent Scotland that'd be something important, but frankly I can't see that happening any time soon

# ¿ Apr 8, 2018 21:33

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Coohoolin posted:

I loving love Scottish politics, it's so ridiculous.

Anyway, Jonathon Shafi has a take this morning:

I knew Jonathan Shafi at uni, and it's kinda interesting to me to witness how he hasn't really changed since being the loudest voice in seminars. Now, as then, I kinda sympathise with what he's saying, but it's too simplistic, too vague, and too caught up in categorisation to contribute much to the debate.

It's also striking that anyone with even a passing interest in Scottish politics could describe the snp saying neoliberal things as "a shift." It's a well worn point by now, but the capacity of the pro independence left to view anything pro-independence as inherently left is still galling.

What's ironic is that Shafi says exactly what I think here, but he doesn't think it applies to anyone who is pro-independence:

quote:

But the main problem remains an inherently tribal attitude towards independence which lacks any kind of dynamism.

Which brings me to Pissflaps:

CoolCab posted:

it's amazing that he's softening on the SNP cause he hates corbyn so much.

Is it not incredibly obviously to everyone that the snp aren't tartan tories but rather nationalist new labour in style as well as substance? Pissflaps, for all his myriad faults, has always been consistent on liking new labour- I'm honestly surprised he's not historically been MORE positive about the snp.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2018 00:47

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Coohoolin posted:

The dare to Take The Votes and Not Lust For Nuclear Hellfire.

quote:

But the main problem remains an inherently tribal attitude towards independence which lacks any kind of dynamism.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2018 09:59

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 14:39

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Aramoro posted:

Had you considered it was maybe the trans kids fault all along ?

https://twitter.com/TwisterFilm/status/1225471996701609984

I mean...what? This is the weirdest take

https://twitter.com/TwisterFilm/status/1225472059905630209

# ¿ Feb 7, 2020 16:39

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