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Timby posted:On the set of the Original Series, Shatner was constantly trying to take dialogue away from his co-stars, saying stuff like, "Uhura doesn't need to say that, it's totally extraneous." Basically, he was extremely sensitive about losing the spotlight (which also led to a lot of tension between him and Nimoy, particularly when Nimoy's fan mail started outnumbering Shatner's by like 10:1). Doohan in particular infamously hated him and they never reconciled before his passing. Pretty much everyone hated Shatner, but especially James Doohan and George Takei. Bill didn't go to Takei's wedding or Nimoy's funeral, and said he wasn't really friends with any of them. Timby posted:I've recommended it in this thread before, but Gene Roddenberry: The Myth and the Man Behind Star Trek by Joel Engel is pretty much essential reading. I've also heard rumors that Gene sexually assaulted Grace Lee Whitney (Yeoman Rand) and that led to her departure from the show but I don't have any evidence to back it up. Gene Roddenberry was also friends with L. Ron Hubbard and wished he had thought of making a cult, too.
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Jul 21, 2016 21:25
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Timby posted:Whitney always said it was a Desilu executive who raped her. Ah, I just assumed it was Gene. Because you know... knowing Roddenberry and his history.... I wouldn't exactly put it past him....
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Jul 21, 2016 22:01
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I haven't seen beyond yet, but last week I rewatched the other two JJ movies. Star Trek '09 is still decent, Into Darkness is still godawful. If it weren't for Nemesis I guess the whole "odd Star Trek movies bad, even ones good" rule would still be in effect. We got two bad ones in a row and that threw the whole thing off.
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Jul 22, 2016 15:11
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Timby posted:That rule has never been in effect, since The Motion Picture and The Final Frontier are both great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGUYN8bUJB8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxk1BSQo8bg Also there's the fact that the plot of Star Trek V is that Spock's brother comes out of nowhere, is a cult leader and gets 90% of the Enterprise crew to uncharacteristically betray their Captain. So the senior staff of the USS Enterprise was willing to help Kirk save Spock by stealing the Enterprise from Spacedock and at best throwing away their careers and at worst getting thrown in prison suddenly decide to throw that same Captain under the bus when some cult leader shows up. Okay. Like, the entire film's purpose is just to fellate Shatner's ego and poo poo on the rest of the cast. Spock and Bones were going to turn on Kirk too originally, but Nimoy and DeForest Kelly refused to do the picture unless it was changed. Oh, also Captain Kirk beats up God himself. However, with all that said, the Final Frontier still manages to be a better, more coherent and less insulting movie than Into Darkness. Somehow.
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Jul 22, 2016 18:32
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I have mixed feelings about the whole Sulu thing. On one hand, I think it's good that Star Trek finally has an openly gay character. It's honestly very surprising that they took this long. I guess it's just really telling how Berman-era Star Trek didn't have the ballsiness of shows prior and decided to play it safe to such an extreme it killed the franchise. On the other hand, George Takei was opposed to it, so it isn't really honoring him when you go against his wishes. I was actually excited for it and wanted it until I heard George's take on it. But, on the other other hand, it's not like George Takei has "ownership" of the character of Sulu. It's a little odd how the JJ characters are almost like... a strange mix of the TOS characters and the actors that portrayed them, most notably with Spock and Sulu. But it's also kind of understandable to a degree, because after all these years of Star Trek, it's sometimes a little vague where the fictional character ends and the real person begins.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:05
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I honestly feel like a gay Kirk or Spock would have felt less jarring and out of place than the Spock \ Uhura romance. Maybe that's because gay Kirk \ Spock fanfiction has been around for 50 years and literally invented the genre. But I think it's more like Spock and Uhura don't have a lot of chemistry. I liked Trek '09 but Spock \ Uhura kinda made me do a double take and was like "buhwhat? I would have never even imagined those two characters as a couple ever." Of course, I guess they didn't go for Kirk \ Uhura because that would have been the obvious choice.Drone posted:Takei is great, but he doesn't own the character, and he does not have the authority to speak on behalf of all gays. He also occasionally has the habit of overinflating his own importance to the modern franchise. I for one am 100% happy that Sulu turned out to be the gay one and not Ensign Ricky who got shoehorned in. Yeah, George Takei isn't like, King of the Gays or anything. Although King of the Gays is a pretty funny mental image. Somebody please take that concept and roll with it. One Queer to Rule them All.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:44
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Also to be fair, Sulu didn't have much personality either. He mostly just said "aye, sir" and adjusted the throttle. It's not like gay Sulu is destroying the character of straight Sulu when there wasn't a lot of character to begin with.
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Jul 23, 2016 01:47
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McSpanky posted:It's really funny to consider that if they made Kirk and/or Spock gay but not interested in the other, that may well have pissed off more fans in total than just going straight (heh) K/S. I mean... well... there's obviously a lot of tension between Kirk and Spock in these new movies. Maybe it would be a hatefucking. It would... actually kind of make sense. I dunno why, but the Uhura\Spock relationship just feels really odd to me. You can argue that JJ Spock is more emotional because his planet got blown up, but they were dating before that. It could have worked if they slowly started hinting at a romance and building that over the course of a few movies before going for it, but that all happened offscreen so I saw it and was like "what the gently caress?" It just seems so uncharacteristic of both characters. In fact, I would say Spock and Uhura feels way more out of place and uncharacteristic than Sulu being gay. Hell, I think a lot of people just assumed he was gay because I mean, he really sets of my gaydar throughout the show and movies. It's like if in Star Wars, C-3PO came out of the closet. Everyone would be like "well yeah, duh. We all knew he was a gay robot 40 years ago even though nobody explicitly told us." What's also interesting is this really isn't causing a lot of controversy, either. Hell, it's downright civil in here other than WickedHate telling me that I'm the worst and should kill myself over it a few weeks back. That's a whopping one angry Internet jerk. Maybe it's because Paramount themselves are treating it like it's no big deal and the media isn't trying to whip people up into a frenzy of a span of months. I think it might be because most people really did always just assume that Sulu was gay.
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Jul 23, 2016 02:39
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I just got out of Star Trek Beyond. It is the best Trek movie since the Undiscovered Country. Hell, this movie blows Star Wars: the Force Awakens out of the water. It more than makes up for the shitshow that was Into Darkness.I think JJ Trek must be the mirror universe because the odd numbered movies are good and the even ones are bad and not the other way around. Oh, and this movie actually felt like Star Trek. They didn't beat the bad guys by shooting a lot of guns at them, they did something clever instead. And... wow. drat. I just got outta the movie and saw the footage for Star Trek: Discovery. That might be the fastest buzzkill I've ever had in history.
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Jul 24, 2016 00:08
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Well, I liked it how in Beyond, they didn't beat the bad guys by shooting lasers at them. They killed them with music. It was like, the most Macross thing ever. Beyond was good. ...gently caress, CBS really wants to kill Star Trek it seems.
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Jul 24, 2016 00:52
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The McQuarrie Enterprise was always the worst looking Enterprise and I can't believe they decided to use it. That said, the ship did actually appear in the Search for Spock and Unification pt. 1... http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Planet_of_the_Titans
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Jul 24, 2016 05:28
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It's kinda hilarious and hosed that I watched Beyond and saw how amazing and cool Yorktown station looked, then saw the Discovery footage and saw the complete polar opposite. Also yeah, I did notice they tried to warp out after they broke the navigational deflector, but it didn't bother me that much because I'm not diagnosed with autism
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Jul 24, 2016 18:40
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"Discovery" isn't exactly a good name for a warship. Sounds more like a science vessel.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:11
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I think mostly I was just overjoyed that Beyond had a coherent plot that was also fairly original and not a complete ripoff of something else. And they had a creative, clever way of beating the bad guys, not just pew pew lasers.
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Jul 27, 2016 13:19
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Why cookie Rocket posted:I'm good with Pine and most of the cast really but I'm shocked that they still have no idea how Spock works or what his appeal is. Quinto plays Spock like a big dummy who thinks he's fooling everyone about his emotional state via his awful poker face. It's painfully obvious that Spock is emoting in every scene he's in, when those moments should be reserved for...oh, I dunno, every 4th episode or so? The smile at the end of Amok Time wouldn't be so great if Spock weren't completely inscrutable 99% of the time. Good to see that I'm not alone in thinking that Quinto is kind of a lovely Spock. Most of the time he just comes across as an angry, passive aggressive dick. He's more likable and less of an rear end in a top hat in this one, though. Nimoy's Spock works so well because he's very subtle. Quinto has no subtlety. Like... I kind of feel like Tim Russ's Tuvok feels more like Spock to me than Quinto's. And Tuvok pulls off the "really hates you but keeps it contained" thing a lot better. That's probably because he really loathes Neelix and it works because the audience really loathes Neelix, too. Tuvok gets along okay with almost anyone not Neelix. GET IN THE ROBOT fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jul 27, 2016 |
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Jul 27, 2016 17:17
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remusclaw posted:It doesn't help that he loses his cool completely at least once per movie he is in. He comes across as more emotionally unstable than any of the other characters in the films. Part of it has to be on writing, because I doubt he has much say regarding that, but he really is pretty terrible even when he is supposed to be in full Vulcan mode. Any time someone talks to him he seems to go all defensive. Yeah. People often say "oh, well he saw this planet get blown up and his mother die!" but I don't really feel like that's a good excuse. Nimoy Spock would almost definitely shed a tear but still try to remain stoic. The only times Nimoy Spock would have a full-on meltdown is if he was going through Pon Farr or if something weird was screwing with his brain chemistry. Like, the whole appeal of Spock's character is that he's inscrutable and very cool, calm and collected at nearly all times. Even in the face of death. He's not the life of the party, but also not too hard to get along with unless you're Bones and you deliberately try to provoke him, only for him to turn around and lay down some sick ice burns.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:30
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Big Mean Jerk posted:
Whatever, dude. Nu-Spock literally feels like an entirely different character to me. I feel like his characterization is way, way off. I seriously feel like Tuvok feels more like Spock to me than JJ Spock. Nu-Spock is more like a T'Pol.
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Jul 28, 2016 00:23
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Baka-nin posted:Even if the show did explicitly state they were Socialists it would be wrong since socialism is a system were the workers control their own workplaces, and we clearly see that the Federation works on a hierarchy with officers, bosses and seniority of staff. Oh and the Bolians have great big galactic banks. I'd imagine racism among other humans probably went by the wayside when they learned that space aliens are real so people started hating them instead. HIJK posted:I bet this was one of the greatest regrets of his life. He was friends with L. Ron Hubbard, after all...
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Aug 2, 2016 14:43
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I think the big problem with Ezri is they had to introduce a new main cast member in the very last season and they were in a rush to flesh her out. It would have been better if she was introduced earlier or not at all. Of course, Terry Farrell decided to quit the show so it couldn't really be helped, but they could have just not replaced her. They didn't really feel a need to give us a Tasha Yar 2.0 as a member of the main cast. Sure, Denise Crosby showed up again a few times, but that's because she regretted leaving the show once it started getting good. A lot of goons seem to have the hots for Ezri though which is really weird because she looks like a 12 year old boy to me. Insert Aatrek joke here. Jadzia was a pretty lame character but she was very easy on the eyes at least. Leeta was the hottest, though.
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Aug 4, 2016 03:59
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Rhyno posted:Nana Visitor is the most beautiful woman from DS9 and I will fight you. She is a very pretty lady, but I have to go on team Leeta because I'm a boob man, and also she likes little Jewish goblin men like me
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Aug 4, 2016 04:16
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MikeJF posted:Ezri has issues, but she's much better than Jadzia who is so dull. Yeah, Jadzia is hands down the most boring character of DS9's main cast. I think she is a pretty lady, but she came without a personality installed. Jadzia beat Ezri in the looks department, but that's it - Ezri is actually the better character because she has... well... character. I just think Ezri would have been better if they killed off Jadzia earlier and didn't have to spend half of the final season establishing her character. I think she was just introduced to the show too late in its lifespan. It might have been best to just let the symbiote die with Jadzia, or have the next host be a minor or offscreen character so Dax is pretty much dead as far as the audience is concerned. MikeJF posted:You're all wrong, Sisko was hottest. Jake Sisko grew up to be a pretty handsome guy. The actor, I mean. Not the guy who played adult Jake in the Visitor.
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Aug 4, 2016 05:26
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Pakled posted:One of the weakest things in DS9, to me, is the Dax-Worf relationship. It suffers from the same thing the O'Briens do in that you basically never see them enjoying each others' company or being happy in their marriage. Almost every time we see them together, they're fighting, and as a result I just see no chemistry between them. See also: Kirk and Spock in the JJ movies \ Obi-Wan and Anakin in the Star Wars prequels. Okay, so it's not a romantic relationship (at least not with Anakin and Obi-Wan, Kirk\Spock is up to debate) but you catch my drift.
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Aug 4, 2016 05:30
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Patrick Stewart, Levar Burton and Whoopi Goldberg already had fairly prolific acting careers before TNG. Patrick Stewart is also one of the greatest actors alive. Michael Dorn does a lot of voice acting, and so does Marina Sirtis. Michael Dorn also did well enough to afford his own fighter jet. No, I poo poo you not. Worf has a fighter jet.
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Aug 4, 2016 12:19
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It really always kinda bugged me that Star Trek uniforms don't have pockets. I mean, I suppose you don't need to carry around a wallet and keys anymore, but you need someplace to put your tricorder.
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Aug 5, 2016 12:58
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Cojawfee posted:DS9 in HD would be the worst investment ever for CBS. I want DS9 on Blu Ray so bad. 
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Aug 11, 2016 12:28
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EX-GAIJIN AT LAST posted:This kind of thing is exactly what it doesn't need. At that point you might as well just name it Treknobabble: The Series. That show already exists, it's called Voyager.
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Aug 11, 2016 13:29
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Yeah, the Excelsior and Miranda were like 100 years old by that point and were from TOS. The Miranda even shared half its parts with the Constitution and Constellation classes, yet those got phased out while Mirandas stayed in service. They still had a few Oberth-class ships in TNG as well. The Klingons are even worse in this regard and have been using the same Birds of Prey and Battlecrusiers since loving forever. Of course, this is mainly due to budget because these were the models they had. Plus naval ships in real life typically have 30-60 year lifespans, but the Excelsiors and Mirandas were old as gently caress. I like to think of the Sovereign-class as the replacement and successor to the Excelsior-class. They have a pretty similar shape and proportions, being long, skinny ships, vs. the Galaxy and Ambassador who are big and fat.
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Aug 12, 2016 15:21
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qntm posted:Maybe... But they can have it both ways. They - by which I mean directors - can use a standard screen or the holographic thing whenever it works best for the story. And they can explain that variation away any way they like, too: variations in technological support among species, distance/lack of data for full holographic support, custom, social context, personal preference. It's just another tool in the box. But a good one, I think! They do it in Star Wars all the time, it's just that they're all blue and flickery. Big Mean Jerk posted:No wonder the Ent-E is so hideous. No, the Excelsior and Sovereign and both good looking ships you jerk. The Refit Enterprise/A is the best looking ship, though.
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Aug 12, 2016 19:08
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I like Andy Probert's original Ambassador concept better than the final product: http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=28446 That said, a simpler model was made due to time and budget constraints so it couldn't be helped. I also might be in the minority, but I prefer the look of the Enterprise-B\Lakota refit over the original Excelsior. I think the extra impulse engines fill out the saucer a bit more. Of course, like many Trekkies, I really just love Federation ships period and like how a lot of them are kitbashes of each other and have stylistic "generations" - NX-01 \ NX Intrepid \ Warp Delta Constitution \ Antares \ Deadalus Constitution Refit \ Miranda \ Constellation \ Sydney Excelsior \ Centaur Ambassador Galaxy \ Nebula \ New Orleans \ Intrepid Defiant Akira \ Steamrunner Sovereign \ Nova \ Prometheus
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Aug 12, 2016 20:03
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armoredgorilla posted:Gosh golly, I REALLY like that Ambassador design. Does a fine job of bridging the gap between Excelsior and Galaxy classes. It's funny you mention that though, because people in here keep talking about designs they find ugly. If you really want some ugly designs that make no sense, look no further than STO. I mean, just look at these monstrosities:          People who poo poo on the Excelsior \ Sovereign \ Galaxy \ NX-Refit \ whatever should just think of the horrible turds that cryptic designs and that should give them a little perspective.
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Aug 12, 2016 21:39
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WickedHate posted:Except for the first one, which is just poo poo all over, those look bad mainly from an aesthetics perspective, like someone threw a gritty BSG coat of paint over them. If there was no Star Trek between TOS and now, that's what I'd expect a reboot to look like. I suppose. Federation ships tend to be smooth, curvy and graceful looking. The ones cryptic designs are basically a lot of random shapes and lines thrown together at seemingly random. They're way too busy and just look like a bunch of poo poo slapped together with no rhyme or reason. elcapjtk posted:My biggest gripe about the Steamrunner/Norway/Akira set of ships is that there is no design lineage, outside of the tenuous NX->Akira sorta thing. You can only have so many different takes on the Miranda/Centaur/Nebula before it gets old, and once you get to the bigger stories you gotta give a better scale to how big/varied the Federation really is. The Norway is very ugly, but it only shows up in First Contact so that one barely even counts. I really like the Akira class, though. Aesthetically, the Akira takes parts from both the Galaxy-based line of ships and the later Sovereign-based ones. The Steamrummer has similar nacelles to the Akira, too. As far as Federation ships go, the Defiant-class is really the odd one out, but the Defiant is such a cool ship that I don't really care.
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Aug 12, 2016 21:56
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What Star Trek really should have done is kept the miniskirts.
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Aug 15, 2016 12:52
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MikeJF posted:But to keep it non-sexist, give the men miniskirts too? They actually did in TNG Season 1. Then they went away.
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Aug 15, 2016 12:59
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What was the whole story behind the Jeri Ryan \ Obama presidency thing again?
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Aug 15, 2016 15:43
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WampaLord posted:Her husband, Jack Ryan, was running for Senate in Illinois. During his campaign, their divorce documents were leaked, which showed that he was an abusive dick who pressured her to have sex in public and took her to sex clubs and etc. Jack Ryan drops out of the race, leaving a certain Barack Obama to win that Senate seat. The same Jack Ryan from the Hunter for Red October and Clear and Present Danger? What? He's an American hero! And also Harrison Ford and sometimes Alec Baldwin!
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Aug 15, 2016 15:51
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Timby posted:A year or two after she was hired on Voyager she began an affair with Brannon Braga. Oh, that explains a lot.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:22
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Rhyno, just do yourself a favor and only watch the better \ more noteworthy \ infamous Voyager episodes. Life is too short. I can watch some mediocre garbage but even I can't watch all of Voyager all the way through. I'm not strong enough. I'm watching the original BSG now, though. It's at least fun albeit really stupid. I found seasons 1-2 for the new BSG for cheap and I was like "you know, I'll watch the old ones too."
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Aug 16, 2016 03:28
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I would prefer a post TNG\DS9\VOY show, but what would it be even like? What would the galaxy be like 100 years later? How crazy would we want to go with tech? Also, what premise would you have? We've gone exploring, had a show on a space station, and had a ship lost in space. And we saw all four quadrants. Do we go to other galaxies? Have space time cops? (I don't really want a show centering around time travel.) Maybe make a show about the Enterprise G or H or something. Take the idea of the Enterprise-D and take it to the next level. Put actual cities and forests in it. Make the ship itself artificially intelligent and make AIs commonplace (expand on Data-type androids and the EMH). HORATIO HORNBLOWER posted:The original continuity deserves to be continued because DS9 left it in such a fascinating place. The Romulans and the Federation allied with each other for the first time in their centuries-long history. What happens with that? Does the detente with the Dominion hold? Does Bajor join the Federation? What does the Klingon empire look like under Martok's rule? Will the Cardassians rebuild? What does post-occupation Betazed look like? Will those that lived through the war spend the rest of their lives looking for changelings behind every tree? How does Ferengi society adapt? There are zillions of interesting stories to tell in this universe and there's no inherit reason to let the technobabble get in the way of doing it. There just isn't the will. This. I really want to see how the universe changes post-DS9. There was some really interesting setup there. It would be cool to see the Ferengi, Bajorans, Klingons and maybe even Romulans and Cardassians join the Federation in the far flung future.
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Aug 17, 2016 17:16
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The 1960s were a time of race riots, the threat of nuclear annihilation, the troubles in Ireland, the Vietnam war, the Arab-Israeli conflict, the assassinations of Martin Luther King and JFK... it wasn't the happiest of times. Trek can't get contemporary without completely losing faith in humanity? We probably need Star Trek now more than ever.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:25
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:More specifically, we don't need the show's protagonists to come from the unaccountable police state. I mean poo poo dude, that's what Star Trek has been since day one. The Federation and the crew of the Enterprise didn't reflect the zeitgeist of the time, they instead encountered aliens that could be used as metaphors for current-day politics. I know it's a dumb episode, but take for instance the one where they find people who are half-black and half-white on one side and the other group that's the opposite. It took contemporary issues and made them more palatable to the audience by putting them in the context of fictional alien races. You can make Star Trek at any time, because the Federation is not, and rarely is a look at the current political reality. Instead, what Star Trek does is it lets the audience examine current issues from an outsider's perspective by changing the context. The Federation and the Starship Enterprise represent the ideal earth. The aliens they encounter represent the people and issues of current-day earth. Star Trek really isn't about outer space, when done right, it's about the human condition. To paraphrase Captain Kirk: "No, I'm not from outer space. I'm from Iowa. I only work in space."
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Aug 17, 2016 18:54
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