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Sooo much hatred in this thread, probably a good amount of it the self- kind. You have people on one page saying white people invented slavery, imperialism, and destruction and then people on the next page claiming hey maybe white people did some good stuff too (perhaps "white" people contributing to some modern concepts of freedom) shut down with "uhhh did white people INVENT freedom?" Smdh close thread gas thread
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Jul 30, 2016 20:26
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 01:28 |
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gently caress white pride but really gently caress any pride that is based off of genetic heritage imo
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Jul 30, 2016 20:53
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Brainiac Five posted:"Look, I'm just saying that reverse racism is real, and the black power salute is a sign of hatred." Yeah thats not what im saying
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Jul 30, 2016 20:58
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Who What Now posted:Yeah, how dare minorities feel any kind of positive emotion like pride! How did you derive that from what I said? Do you really see the continued culture of "racial pride", no matter what the race/ethnic group, being sustainable into the future? I don't. I'm not really a fan of pride in general though, no matter the race.
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Jul 30, 2016 21:55
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SedanChair posted:Is black pride bad? Answer only this question. No. edit: Obviously you need to define bad, define black pride, etc. for the answer to be precise. I'm somewhat of a futurist and I want there to be a future where there is no reason to have pride based on one's race, and therefore I hope we get to a point where it is no longer necessary to have "X pride". But in our current conditions I think it can be useful, defensible, understandable to have black pride. an skeleton fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jul 30, 2016 |
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Jul 30, 2016 22:31
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Jerry Cotton posted:Oh but you don't need to define pride? Yeah I mean you probably need to define all of the terms. Assuming pride is just "positive feelings towards the accomplishments of" then there is nothing wrong with it.
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Jul 30, 2016 22:37
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Actually, yeah, great point. What the gently caress is pride
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Jul 30, 2016 22:42
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please dont be mean. this is debate and discussion
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Jul 30, 2016 22:47
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Who What Now posted:So were you lying when you said this: I was being hyperbolic, not lying. I don't think black pride per se is bad, and is quite defensible or useful to have, but in the end I think we have to move past all forms of racial pride. Just my opinion, ese.
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Jul 30, 2016 23:22
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Who What Now posted:Why should we move away from it? What's the problem with ethnic pride that it needs to be stamped out of society forever? I definitely don't think it needs to be "stamped out". I think as society progresses (I'm talking over the next hundreds of years) it will become less prominent organically, as long as we don't nuke ourselves into the stone age or whatever.
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Jul 30, 2016 23:31
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Who What Now posted:Then why should people with ethnic pride go gently caress themselves? i didnt say that
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Jul 30, 2016 23:36
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I didn't say the words you said. gently caress a "concept" is different than "people who adhere to this concept should go gently caress themselves". Quite different, I think. Here is what I meant by "gently caress ethnic/racial pride" (paraphrase) I mean, if I was in a hall, surrounded by ideas, and I had a limited amount of "idea dollars" to spend on selecting and developing ideas which I thought were good for society, I would probably not spend these idea dollars on making sure society had a healthy dose of "racial pride". I don't think that is where our mental focus is best directed. Now, for people that do happen to have something akin to it, maybe they have a good reason and it has helped them do good things for themselves or others, that's all fine and dandy. But I don't think it is the best, most direct way to do those things. So maybe "gently caress ethnic/racial pride" isn't the best way to articulate what I was saying, here on this internet forum.
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Jul 30, 2016 23:39
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Who What Now posted:Why do you think you know how to spend people's "idea dollars" better than they do? And yes, you obviously do believe that, otherwise you wouldn't have a problem with it. lmao, keep telling people what they believe I guess..? steinrokkan posted:ok, this is quite possibly the workst possible way of defending your argument. ok heres the summary we have a limited amount of time in which to improve society as such, we should think about how we do so (deciding which ideas are worth promoting/considering over others) in my view, i dont think "racial pride" is the optimal way to do it what exactly is the issue
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Jul 30, 2016 23:44
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Who What Now posted:And yet in the exact same post you say: Uh, are you implying you think "racial pride" is the best way to improve society?
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Jul 30, 2016 23:49
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steinrokkan posted:Society isn't a machine that can be engineered to use its "time" more efficiently according to some rigid scheme. That would just lead to new unforeseen grievances arising. Nope but people can be taught to realize their time is valuable and perhaps better used advancing some ideas or concepts over others. And I like to think as long as there are people like me saying "uhhh hey maybe racial pride as a tool for societal advancement is a bit outdated, lets try something else" maybe more people will shift their ideas into more productive directions.
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Jul 30, 2016 23:51
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steinrokkan posted:Well, framing it as a matter of time efficiency seems to be extremely ineffective in winning over hearts and minds. There are much better ways to frame it. I will concede this point. Who What Now posted:I'm asking you to explain why you think you know better than people with racial pride. I'd prefer to ask you why you think racial pride is a concept worth defending.
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Jul 30, 2016 23:56
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Who What Now posted:I'm shocked, shocked I say, that you would prefer to dodge an uncomfortable question. Not dodging, I don't know how to answer. I'm not saying no one should feel pride ever in things they identify with. I'm saying that I don't believe it needs to be a promulgated force in society.
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Jul 31, 2016 00:06
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Who What Now posted:And why do you believe that? Why shouldn't parents teach their children to be proud of who they are? They can be proud of who they are without specifically tying that pride to race. Pride in work ethic, pride in family, pride in doing good things. Instilling racial pride is uniquely equipped to promote divisiveness relative to "hey your grandfather/mother was a doctor who helped her community, isn't that great?" or "There's pride in studying and working hard so that you can become a strong contributor to the betterment of yourself and others." If you have some good arguments for promoting racial pride, I'm genuinely curious to hear them.
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Jul 31, 2016 00:19
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Ehh I'm using work ethic more generally than that. Work ethic imo can mean working hard to improve the lives of others, working hard to improve your own condition so that you aren't dependent on others, these things I think are important. Literally working hard just to get relatively rich and be lazy at an office is not the type of work ethic I am interested in promoting. edit: but then again, maybe pride isn't the right word. I think pride is actually kind of a lovely word to describe any of this, basically we're talking about values at this point, pride I think adds something else to the equation. so maybe you're right.
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Jul 31, 2016 00:26
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Biggest takeaway from this thread is that there is a serious poverty of language when discussing these topics.
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Jul 31, 2016 03:45
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 01:28 |
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Uhh, work ethic just means recognizing that exerting effort can result in improving the lives of those you care about and yourself. It does not or should not mean that you should sell your soul to capitalism, and really applies to any sort of society, even post-work ones probably.
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Jul 31, 2016 10:26
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